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Rust and Chassis... ?

 
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:11 PM
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Rust and Chassis... ?

I'm kind of looking for people's opinions or whatever the hell pops in your heads... basically "What do you think about this?" sort of thing...

I had my alignment appointment today, to where they installed some MOOG ball joints for the lower front.. that translates to Sankei brand (AKA Three Fives) ball joints. There were no complaints, I think, about them. But the guy who was there did note that he doesn't recommend having the adjustable ball joints in the upper control arms on a vehicle that's not lowered. I DO deal with those ball joints slamming into the wheel wells..

In any case, concerning the alignment, front and rear, the primary issue was frozen cam bolts.. at least, I think, on one side, I haven't taken a look underneath yet to observe anything. But the point is that the cam bolts are apparently rusted INTO some surrounding things.. I don't quite know what exactly.. but I believe this is called "seized".. I'd imagine this would be hard to fix.
The mechanic working on the car decided to adjust the toe by using an alternative method. I guess he made a new hole in the part that attaches to the arm in order to pseudo-adjust the toe.

And finally, my sway bar links need to be replaced... I actually already knew this but I was just reminded. I don't know if this is a big deal or not.. as it doesn't SEEM like a hard job. And since the sway bar is beneficial more when I'm hard-corning, and since I shouldn't be on this high of a mileage vehicle anyways... well that's not going to happen. Yes.. this would explain why my car likes to go sideways during hard corners.... luckily I've gotten used to how to handle this car under those circumstances..

Alright, will wait for people to comment. . . .
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:46 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

{{I'm trying to research this and the only thing that shows pertaining to adjusting cam bolts is for the rear lower arms.. I'm not getting anything for the front except on the 5th gens... Someone please smack the n00b out of me...
But seriously, I don't know what this stuff is called to even figure it out on my own.}}

{Okay, so I've figured out what's going on... the mechanic could ONLY be talking about the toe adjustment bolt on the rear suspension.. Which I wouldn't exactly call a "cam bolt" or.. "cams".... as I recall him saying. I don't know. Very confusing. Rednecks. At least I finally know what the hell he was talking about. I guess I'll need a torch in the future.
I still don't understand how these bolts adjust the toe, though...}

Cam: A cam is a rotating or sliding piece in a mechanical linkage used especially in transforming rotary motion into linear motion or vice-versa.
thus: Cam bolt adjusts rear toe by turning...

finally.. NOW what do people think of all of this? BIG problems? Or just... you know, average..?
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:04 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

if you aren't lowered: take the adjustables off until you are lowered (see the suspension thread)
if "apparently" stuff is rusted to stuff: then you need to look for yourself and get back to us on what is actually going on
if your toe is wack: then im assuming the alignment fixed it
if your bushings are shot: then buy new bushings and take the time to put them on.

your lucky someone even wanted to reply to this thread because it's a jumbled mess and you have no idea what is actually happening with your lude. please diagnose to the best of your abilities before you post back. this way the PZ community can better understand the situation without having to do alot of thinking and time wasting.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:16 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

Ouch.
thank you for smacking the n00b out of me. I forget that this is a website of technicians customizing things, not engineers trying to understand everything.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:30 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

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Originally Posted by pr0d1gy9 View Post
if "apparently" stuff is rusted to stuff: then you need to look for yourself and get back to us on what is actually going on
if your toe is wack: then im assuming the alignment fixed it
As I stated above, the cam bolts, which are the rear adjusting bolts for the toe, are seized... as least I'm not sure which side is... so THAT I need advise for..

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0d1gy9 View Post
if your bushings are shot: then buy new bushings and take the time to put them on.
And if the stabilizer links themselves don't move/seized?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0d1gy9 View Post
if you aren't lowered: take the adjustables off until you are lowered (see the suspension thread)
So I should just run around with no upper ball joints/control arm? I don't see where I'm going to find stock ball joints, or figure out how to get them installed without damaging the control arm... or how I'm going to afford $300/ea control arms with the ball joints in them.. I bought the car with an adjustable already in 1 side and I finished the job... Its cheap and there is no other alternative besides dropping $600..

I figure I save the questions and explain everything..
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:54 AM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

my advice is to take it to a mechanic and have him fix it you are clearly over your head on this one especially when dealing with the rear cam bolts.

the cam bolts generally seize into the bushing and not the surrounding metal this involves a cutting torch, but if he was able to straighten out the car then leave it, it does not need to be replaced because the bolt is seized

sway bar links are usually best taken out with a cutting torch
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:48 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

I wasn't attempting to be rude: I apologize.

your post just needed some grammar work and some better knowledge of what actually is happening with your car.

if the lude is supposed to be a daily driver then I would consider buying a new car; this being the case if you're unable to do a lot of the work by yourself.
if it's not a daily. I would consider taking the time to really dig into it making sure everything is in decent shape and replacing what needs to be replaced.

a good place to start is cleaning everything in the engine bay and under the car the best you can. this will make problems easier to spot and possibly make pictures easier for us to look at.

best of luck
hopefully someone will chime in with some more info for you
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Originally Posted by DJ Prelude View Post
Prelude is all about taking tight corners at 50 MPH
DIY- Main Relay removal/fix

2002 Ford Focus ZX3
1992 Honda Prelude SI ----->LUDE LINKAGE HERE<-----(sold)
1993 Ford Taurus LX (sold)

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Old 09-11-2012, 07:10 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

right now im unable to help with the adjusting bolts because my lude is at the shop and im at home so i cant take a look at it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mbman88 View Post
And if the stabilizer links themselves don't move/seized?
the problems that are related to the stabilizer bar are these:
end links worn
bushings worn.
bar no longer operating as it should(so rare i never consider it)
the end links should be difficult to twist and move by hand. not totally frozen, but not super easy. if theyre easy or the boots are torn then you need to replace them
the bushings are easy to diagnose. just look at them and if theyre torn, or being squished out of the metal clamp-like mounts, then replace them. the clamps unbolt but you will need the torch to melt off any old rubber that might be stuck to the metal


Quote:
Originally Posted by mbman88 View Post
So I should just run around with no upper ball joints/control arm? I don't see where I'm going to find stock ball joints, or figure out how to get them installed without damaging the control arm... or how I'm going to afford $300/ea control arms with the ball joints in them.. I bought the car with an adjustable already in 1 side and I finished the job... Its cheap and there is no other alternative besides dropping $600..
you need ever suspension part your car came with man. i assume youre talking about the rear upper control arms here. if yes, then the 5th gen ones work too. they just have an extra plate of metal welded between the two arms i guess for reinforcement. theyre less than $100 on ebay. typically you should be able to press out the upper ball joint, but i have yet to find one for sale.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:09 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustytypes View Post
my advice is to take it to a mechanic and have him fix it you are clearly over your head on this one especially when dealing with the rear cam bolts.

the cam bolts generally seize into the bushing and not the surrounding metal this involves a cutting torch, but if he was able to straighten out the car then leave it, it does not need to be replaced because the bolt is seized

sway bar links are usually best taken out with a cutting torch
I kind of agree with the rear cam bolts... for now. It's pointless doing anything until I have a reason to since the mechanic already pseudo-adjusted it.

But I'm kind of wondering why the sway bar links are best taken out with a cutting torch... are you referring to removing the bolts?

But speaking of the sway bar links, I just checked them and the passenger side still has its bushings, the driver's side needs a bushing on the bottom (unless this is 1 whole bushing and when I see TWO it might actually mean it broke into two? lol).. The links themselves seem to rotate/swivel fine, besides LOOKing old and rusted I don't see an immediate need to replace them (mechanical need).
I haven't checked the rear yet.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:21 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0d1gy9 View Post
I wasn't attempting to be rude: I apologize.

your post just needed some grammar work and some better knowledge of what actually is happening with your car.

if the lude is supposed to be a daily driver then I would consider buying a new car; this being the case if you're unable to do a lot of the work by yourself.
if it's not a daily. I would consider taking the time to really dig into it making sure everything is in decent shape and replacing what needs to be replaced.

a good place to start is cleaning everything in the engine bay and under the car the best you can. this will make problems easier to spot and possibly make pictures easier for us to look at.

best of luck
hopefully someone will chime in with some more info for you
yeah it did come across has confrontational. I do realize that tend to write too much sometimes, and make frequent errors or use odd words. I would have corrected it but lost my ambition.

Thanks for the advice, too. Sadly it is a daily driver.. we have "plans" to get another car so we don't have to rely on the 'lude.

....but until that time comes I am making efforts to restore the car to the time I purchased it. This IS my first car that wasn't a "beater" and also my first true sports car. Even if we do get another car I still need to search hard and potentially travel to get a vehicle that's not rusted.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:38 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 671 View Post
right now im unable to help with the adjusting bolts because my lude is at the shop and im at home so i cant take a look at it.




the problems that are related to the stabilizer bar are these:
end links worn
bushings worn.
bar no longer operating as it should(so rare i never consider it)
the end links should be difficult to twist and move by hand. not totally frozen, but not super easy. if theyre easy or the boots are torn then you need to replace them
the bushings are easy to diagnose. just look at them and if theyre torn, or being squished out of the metal clamp-like mounts, then replace them. the clamps unbolt but you will need the torch to melt off any old rubber that might be stuck to the metal




you need ever suspension part your car came with man. i assume youre talking about the rear upper control arms here. if yes, then the 5th gen ones work too. they just have an extra plate of metal welded between the two arms i guess for reinforcement. theyre less than $100 on ebay. typically you should be able to press out the upper ball joint, but i have yet to find one for sale.
Okay.. my stabilizer link (front, driver side) is missing part of the bushing(s) so I can move it... but it seems easy to move... So you say that IS bad, right?

And uhh... as for the adjustable ball joints.... yes there are the ones on the rear... and the ones on the front. When I bought the car it had three.. because of the stupidity of pressing a ball joint into an upper control arm they do not sell them. It's far too easy to bend the arm which is a critical component. that left me with only 1 option: to get the adjustable ball joint which sits on the arm in a friendly manner, no bending possible. It took 90 foot-pounds for me to tighten that bolt. But as I'm researching/hearing from people, the adjustable ball joint is larger because normally people are apparently installing it on a lowered vehicle...... big fat UGH!..

I'm guessing you will be surprised to hear that the adjustable BJ's are on all four?
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:36 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

No 300
I only pay 180 for new arm and BJ
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:43 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

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No 300
I only pay 180 for new arm and BJ
Is that front or rear? Is there even a difference from front and rear?? I know there's a difference from left and right

and did you get that somewhere online?
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:16 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

That is for the front, the rears are bigger, but a 5th gen upper rear arm and BJ will fit fine on a 4th gen... U can always take out the arms from a good 5th gen at a junkyard, then u go buy new Moog (or some ish) BJ's take them with your new/used arms to a mechanic and have him prees out the old ones/press in the new ones and voila. A 2001 arm on an old Lude..
The one I put up there was a Beck/Arnley oem replacement, with a beefy BJ...

Sorry I made a mistake bro, I didnt realize and forgot how good a deal I got on em, I bought them at a Lordco parts store here in Canada, and the parts guy used to look after me there when it came to temp pieces for my car by hooking me up with a bogus account, so I got a crazy discount, I mean just look at my invoice,look around and be outgoing with your friendly neighborhood parts guy, he just may be lookin out for you and your wallet... The account has since been closed and I only go to Honda for parts now. It was fun while it lasted and I saved what mustve been hundreds in buying cleaning products and anti seize etc... sighhh
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:21 PM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

Here, I just found u one on Ebay

Beck Arnley 101-4618 Suspension Control Arm and Ball Joint Assembly | eBay
BECK ARNLEY 101-4617 Control Arm/Ball Joint Assy | eBay

But this is cheaper http://www.jdmhub.com/index.php?rout...duct_id=294262 and its SPC, soooo..
and a rear lower ctrl arm, so u can run a wider tire..
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:45 AM
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Re: Rust and Chassis... ?

Wow, thanks man, you didn't need to do that unnecessary work. haha. Although you did help by keeping me aware that I could use ebay. But, although I realize this is important to me, after what happened today it's a little bit low-priority right now. I've gotta go make another post related to that.. I think.. I don't quite understand the etiquette here, yet.

But a quick opinion: I don't like those aftermarket control arms, I've heard some sketchy things about them such as their design makes them difficult to fit properly (banging on the wheel well, for instance) or that because they are heavier than the stock or OEM control arms they add a significant amount of weight to the non-unsprung mass... which should be as lightweight as physically allowed within safety requirements. And since the stock ones are better at this.. well... I've made my point.

thanks a lot!
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