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SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

 
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:29 PM
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SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

Okay... I've had intentions of starting this thread for over a year now, but I was too lazy to dig out my scanner... I finally did it.

I have SPC balljoints -1.5 to +1.5 and I'm lowered 1.7F and 1.5R on NS sports on KYB AGXes with ES poly bushings all round and strut bars... When I got aligned and balanced after getting new Yokohama avid v4s, I had some vibration in the steering... I took it back and I had thrown a weight, so they rebalanced me for free. I still get a bit of a vibration at higher speeds. I think they did a quick job and were not very careful (see front right caster).

The real root of my curiosity lies in the issues with the toe. I have read some places that people think the SPC balljoints mess up the geometry enough that the toe cannot be completely corrected without additional modification.

The shop claimed they could not correct the toe anymore than they did... I haven't noticed serious wear issues (of course I haven't checked lately) or handling issues... The 'lude is incredibly well balanced for the FWD and handles beautifully...

So what do you smarter kids think about this alignment? How should I address this if they really did max the toe cams out? They said it was because the car was lowered, but they didn't blame any specific part.



my car has been hit... before I owned it... think this could have warped things enough to cause issues?


Last edited by mr_y82; 01-27-2010 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:49 PM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

That dent should have nothing to do with the toe being out, notice it is the left side that is out of spec the most and not the right side which is the side with the damage.

Honda does recommend -1 degree rear camber, that might allow you to adjust the toe out a bit.
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:31 AM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

^ I had noticed that, but I thought I would ask anyway because of the wear issue in the next paragraph. I've actually hypothosized that the toe out you see is one reason my back end seems happy to "rotate" in spirited cornering (even with stock sway bars)... I will ask my old alignment shop to give me some negative camber and see if that helps...(not going to the one I went to before... it was just right across the road from my shop, Blueridge Motorsports (but now they moved to Hickory)...

I took a look at my tire wear and I noticed that, just like before I had "any" work done to the car, I am getting more wear on the inside of the right tires, especially the rear. The left side has worn pretty evenly... I usually run at about 40 psi because I found that it caused me not to wear out the outside of the tires as quick (helped it wear in the middle... if that makes any sense...)

I think I will read through this... http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4

holy ****... this is a good line: "Consider that if the toe setting is just 1/16-inch off of its appropriate setting, each tire on that axle will scrub almost seven feet sideways every mile! Extend it out and you'll discover that rather than running parallel to each other, the front tires will scrub over 1/4-mile sideways during every 100 miles of driving! Incorrect toe will rob you of tire life."

Last edited by mr_y82; 01-28-2010 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:50 AM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

i too am running the SPC balljoints, -1.5 to +1.5 in front and +1.5 to +3.0 in the rear. when i initially lowered the car on skunk2 race springs, about a 2.5 inch drop all around, i took it in and my rear was out a whopping -3.5 degrees in camber thats why i opted for the +1.5 to +3.0 in the rear. i basicly redid my whole suspension when i put the camber kit on, KYB AGX's, Progress Rear sway, new bushings everywhere, custom endlinks, new tie rods, etc. took it to the alignment shop and they had no problems adjusting my camber and toe and i am no where near maxing out my toe in the rear. so maybe u just need to go to the more aggressive positive camber kit in the rear.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:01 PM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

i would have left the right rear toe close to the same as the left just to keep u from having and steering trouble...

you might have have a little tire wear but u shouldnt notice any pull.... or "swinging" of your rear end as u state.

the rule is if your cant get toe values (or any value) to spec then always have them matching in preferable in a negative value
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:00 PM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

^ it's a very controlled feeling... I'm not saying the rear end gets out or feels out of control, it's just willing to "rotate" under very aggressive cornering. I did some spirited runs in the middle of no where with some beautiful switchbacks a couple years back (right after all the work was done)... There was virtually no understeer, and it just felt so well balanced; I fell in love with my lude on a new level that day... pretty sure I pissed the wife off...

I do agree that they should match... that makes sense, and I will address that when I get rotated and balanced soon. I might replace the tie rods since I didn't before, and have my shop look everything else over since I'm at a loss anyway.

I don't have any other handling issues, pulls straight (isn't super quick to return to center), and the vibration in the steering at "higher" speeds is do to something up front... maybe I have thrown another weight in a 1st -3rd gear Vtec frenzy... that should be resolved as soon as I get aligned and balanced again.

I think it is strange I am getting more inside wear on the rear tire with less toe out... that seems backwards... but it's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BadBB6 View Post
maybe u just need to go to the more aggressive positive camber kit in the rear.
you mean negative, right? I will have to try that since you guys seem to agree.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:37 AM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post

you mean negative, right? I will have to try that since you guys seem to agree.
well positive kit to fix the negative camber
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:42 PM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

^ ohh, I see what you mean (apparently I can't read)... I think I can get more without getting a new kit, I sure hope so anyway... the alignment shop just didn't bother. they were just convenient at the time but I won't go back.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:35 PM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

yeah its hard to find a good alignment shop that you can trust, i have been thru 3 shops before i found a good one that i can trust.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:36 PM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

how did yall remove the upper ball joints ??
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:15 AM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

i just beat mine out with a small sledge
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Old 03-01-2010, 04:45 AM
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Re: SPC balljoints, Alignment With Rear Toe Maxed

Megan racing makes a rear bar for gobs of rear toe adjustment.

or better yet these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA...ht_6725wt_1113
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