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Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

 
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Old 12-06-2009, 03:15 PM
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Icon5 Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

Hey guys, My engine is now reaching the 200k mark. Although it is still running pretty well, better safe than having it blow on me on the way to class. I plan to do a mostly stock bottom end to maintain reliability and low building cost as it's my daily driver. Also I plan to send the head off to get a mild port and polish as well as cams(most likely crower stage one or two for mid range power) and valvetrain. The first question i have is What do you guys think would make more potential power, 1. using type s pistons along with the built head 2. Using My stock pistons and a very mild nitrous jet (35-50 max). I've done plenty of research into both, and Regardless of which option, I plan on running a ob1 ecu and getting in dyno tuned.
The Next question is The rpm and hp differences between stage 1 and 2 cams. I've attempted to search for redline over stock and such with no luck. Final question is a little tricky to answer and i know there are other variables buuuut: What combo would make the most mid to high hp gains? stg1 and 10:1, stg 1 and 11:1, stg2 and 10:1, or stg2 and 11:1? Any help with any of these questions would be greatly appreciated, as well as any advice you might have. thanks guys.
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Old 12-06-2009, 03:52 PM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

i would rethink your choice of using the crower cams. There are better cams on the market that make better power even in the mild stages. Look into the skunk2 Tuner 2 cam. Its mostly a stock profile idle and a modified high cam for optimum street ability. Using type S pistons would be nice with this setup. Just be sure your machine shop understands the process in honing a FRM cylinder wall.

send your head off to my buddy in cali:

www.cccylinderheads.com

He knows h22 heads pretty well as I have dyno'd before and after his head work.

As for the tuning, dont trust just anyone to tune it. Make sure you do research on the people you are looking to get your engine tuned by. With some of these programs (notably Crome) so many people can call themselves a tuner, yet not really know what they are doing. If you can find a tuner who does ectune, neptune, or hondata you will be in good shape.
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Old 12-06-2009, 04:06 PM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

Thanks for the reply man, As for cams I will indeed look into the tuner 2's, Correct me if i'm wrong but the pro series are more towards high rpm power right? If so i would definitely not want them for my mild build. as far as tuners go, there is a shop in des moines ( i live in iowa lol) That i guess tunes 75% of the imports in iowa and are pretty reputeable. but i will for sure look into that before assuming things, I'd rather drive hours to get it done right than get it done quick. and I've already informed my shop (dad's best friend) that it requires a specific procedure as well as stones. He is VERY knowledgeable when it comes to headwork from 4 cyl to 8cyl, and has all the necessary equipment to do a 3 or 5 angle valve job as well as porting. I will check out your guy though, like i said i'd rather it be done right than fast. Any estimates on hp increase with a street ported bult head? I've been told anywhere from 20-50 at the engine. Thanks again for the help and suggestions.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:31 AM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

As said tuner have basically stock idle, that means all the gains are in VTEC, so high RPM's. Pro's give a more even power band. Differences are I believe explained on their site.

If you do go with Type S pistons, then keep in mind that the wrist pins are different (something like 0.2mm smaller), so you will need Eagle rods (or custom made pauter, etc.). Machine shop may be able to modify the stock ones though.

Good thing about the Type S pistons is that they are cheap (around 21250 for 4) and don't require resleeving. Mahle Gold are also supposed to be FRM compatible though. Looking at Maybe $580 for the Mahle (11.5:1) vs. $420 for the Type S (with OEM rings), add Eagle rods though and you are looking at $760 or so.

There are also those ebay Nippon pistons. No idea what the deal is with them though. Genuine ones are still readily available from Honda though, including type B and OS.
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:33 AM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

Hmm, as far as the pistons go, the type s's aren't a must. Although they are on inline4.com for $200 (Not sure if they're the knock off or not). There isn't really a machine shop i trust to do that around here, and like i said this is a mild build, as I'm in college right now. Think of it as a temporary build haha. Which is why i would rather do a moderate bottom end if not stock. I think just building the head and bolt ons would keep me happy enough for another year or so (when i graduate and both cars will be paid off also). That being said I think it might be a waste to go with a higher lift cam if i'm only running 10:1, so the tuner series is looking like the way to go. (correct me if i'm wrong though) thanks for the help once again. I looked On skunk2's site, and they have a dyno of both tuner series and pro, the pro series with necessary valve train and high compression valves (stock pistons i assume) made 30hp over stock. while the tuner series made about 10hp over the type s valve train. We'll see how things go, I'm just building a stack of parts before I start.

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Old 12-07-2009, 11:53 AM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

Only the CTR and ITR pistons are $200. Prelude is +40, so $240 or $365 with rings (USDM rings are fine, so you can source them where ever).
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Old 12-07-2009, 05:31 PM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

Already have the rings :) I was preparing for a rebuild long ago haha so i have the bearing set, cometic head gasket, arp head studs, and complete gasket kit. basically all i need are the pistons if i do decide to go that route. only time and money will tell haha
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:53 PM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

i am on a budget n/a build too. Also it will be strict oem parts on this build. As I was doing some research on type s piston, what I found out about the rods that fit on the wrist pin. found out that 92-96 pin size are different ( little bigger) so yes u have to change the piston rod to fit on type s piston, on 97-01 u dont need to change the rod. Yes type S piston will fit with no problem. Right now I do have 97 h22a4 engine, but the wall on number 3 bore are damaged, So I took all the h22a4 crank, rods, and oil jet in h23a1 block, which have closed deck and block itself is in great shape. ( same part number on h22 and h23 block) also I am from Iowa
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:26 PM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

Press vs. float for certain years, however it was my understanding that stock pins/rods are 22mm where as Type S are slightly smaller. So you either need to modify the rod or use something specifically designed for Type S pistons like Eagle.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:08 AM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

yes, but I was looking at honda service manual right in front of me, i work at Honda dealership, 92-96 h22a1 wrist pin size are 22.000 (0.8661) mm like u said, ok let look at 97-98 service manual 21.965 (0.8646) so I look at eagle rod and their size for type s piston only are same size as 21.965 (0.8646). so if u know what u are looking for oem rods get 97 and up.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:46 PM
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Re: Rebuilding H22a4 soon, few questions.

Yeah, had a look at the EPC. Type S uses P5P pistons, but regular P5M rods. So I guess you are right. Seen numerous references to the wrist pin being different and in 5th gen, not 4th gen forums.

Looks like it is cheaper to buy Eagle rods than OEM though, if you needed new rods that is. Should also be stronger/lighter than OEM.

Accord Type R has different rods though (PDE for pistons and rods). Supposed to be better pistons than the Type S.
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