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h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

 
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:45 PM
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h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

H22a Prelude Build (Coming Somewhat Soon!)

Many of you may know that I had no future plans for my Prelude, but being an enthusiast, the time has come to do a little something.

Crower Pro Series Rods - $360
JUN Cam Gears - $300
JUN Type 1 Camshafts - $550
Skunk2 Springs & Retainers - $500
Skunk2 Valves - $280
Skunk2 Racing Intake Manifold - $330
w/Spacers
Skunk2 Pro 66m TB - $270
Greddy Header - $450

Also going to change gaskets.

Approx $3,200

What is done already:

JDM h22 swap
Solid Motor Mounts
NGK IR Plugs
NGK Wires
Cold Air Intake
Gutted Cat
Apex n1 Catback Exhaust
Exedy Stage-2 Clutch
Fidanza 8lb Flywheel

Everything else about the Prelude is stock (ext and int)

Goal: 230-240whp tuned on Hondata s300 ($600)

Few Questions:

Any extreme benefits of a ported and polished head?
Any other parts beneficial to a proper build?
- Pistons?

Is it possible to have a stock heat shield on an aftermarket header?

Anyone upgrade brakes?...Big difference in stopping power?

Please….Any and all information/comments will be much appreciated. I do not want to go wrong with certain products and I want to do it right the first time.


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Old 12-18-2008, 07:13 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

port and polished head allows for better intake and exhaust flow. you'll see most of your gains with this.

JE or Weisco pistons but you'll have to sleeve the block with forged pistons.

Mahle makes pistons that are supposed to work with the FRM sleeves in the H series blocks. I haven't heard too much about them in use.

you can use the stock headsheild on an aftermarket header. you'll have to cut the mounting point off the stock manifold and weld it onto the new header so you'll have something to bolt the heat sheild to.

I don't believe in big brake kits. most people on here upgrade to brembo blanks or powerslot rotors, stock size w/ good pads. it's enough to stop my 250whp.
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Old 12-18-2008, 07:53 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

"JE or Weisco pistons but you'll have to sleeve the block with forged pistons."
-Recommended sleeves?

-Port and polished is going to have to work into to the budget.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:59 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

looks good man, how did the swap go?? how deep in VirGINA are you, im in northern va
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:07 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

better look into a better header than that.


i doubt you'll get 230-240whp from that. thats about 270'ish hp @ the CRANK, which is at least a 5-figure engine build alone (daryl would be the one to know all about this)
190-200 @ the wheels is a lil more realistic.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:08 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

you could work the port and polish in with a dremel and different heads if youre confident. I have never seen the inside of a skunk2 intake manifold but if there are casting lines in there go ahead and polish the runners as well.
As far as those mahle pistons go I saw them in a mag.. I cant remember which one, maybe import tuner on an h22 build, havent actually witnessed them being used.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:51 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

best of luck!

EDIT: I should have read your last post, 1BadBB6 makes a good point, dartons are a good choice.

Last edited by mr_y82; 12-18-2008 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:06 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

darton dry sleeves is what i have heard most people get with an aftermarket piston. you can pick them up for around 400 bucks.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
better look into a better header than that.


i doubt you'll get 230-240whp from that. thats about 270'ish hp @ the CRANK, which is at least a 5-figure engine build alone (daryl would be the one to know all about this)
190-200 @ the wheels is a lil more realistic.
My long-term goal is 230-240whp...I have seen very similar builds with the h22a4 that have 225hp to the wheels and 171tq. Hopefully, hopefully, this is manageable.

Can you give me your recommendations on a header?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfields View Post
you could work the port and polish in with a dremel and different heads if youre confident. I have never seen the inside of a skunk2 intake manifold but if there are casting lines in there go ahead and polish the runners as well.
As far as those mahle pistons go I saw them in a mag.. I cant remember which one, maybe import tuner on an h22 build, havent actually witnessed them being used.
My plan is a mild port and polish. I will probably have the intake mani runners polished as well.

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Originally Posted by 1BadBB6 View Post
darton dry sleeves is what i have heard most people get with an aftermarket piston. you can pick them up for around 400 bucks.
Darton dry sleeves seems like a pretty good option.



Need some info.
Has anyone increased bore size from the stock 87mm to 88 or 89mm?
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:10 AM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

Where did you get these prices and numbers? Neither seem to be in any reasonable sort of ballpark.

I would try to help, but Im not sure where to begin...
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:16 AM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

the estimate on whp is way high for the parts you've chosen. more aggressive cams, higher compression, with better intake and exhaust flow is the only way you're going to achieve those numbers N/A.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:57 AM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

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Originally Posted by H22aFranz View Post

Can you give me your recommendations on a header?
RMF/SMSP/HYTECH just to name a few.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:06 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

In addition to the headers that 1BadBB6 listed, Bisi is going to be introducing an H22 header into the market soon, which a lot of us will be very interested in seeing. Also, for the Skunk2 Intake Manifold, I have heard bad things about them when used on NA motors. They work well with boost, but not so much without it. I'd suggest the Euro-R over the Skunk2.

P.S. - Where the hell can you get Jun cams for $550?!
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BadBB6 View Post
RMF/SMSP/HYTECH just to name a few.
I can't find these headers anywhere. Where can I find them? I need to compare them.

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Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
In addition to the headers that 1BadBB6 made, Bisi is going to be introducing an H22 header into the market soon, which a lot of us will be very interested in seeing. Also, for the Skunk2 Intake Manifold, I have heard bad things about them when used on NA motors. They work well with boost, but not so much without it. I'd suggest the Euro-R over the Skunk2.

P.S. - Where the hell can you get Jun cams for $550?!
Sorry, that is per cam. Exhaust and Intake.

Anybody on here increase bore size by any chance?
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:49 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

Oh I'm sure a few people here have, I'll wait for them to chime in on it. As far as the headers go, I know there is a Header Dyno Comparison thread stickied somewhere over on Honda-Tech. I would highly suggest you go check it out.

I know you can order Hytech straight from the manufacturer. As far as RMF and SMSP, I think they were both custom headers being made by independent guys. I know the guy that made the RMF header had to quit due to medical problems or something along those lines. Not sure about the SMSP. Personally, I'm waiting for the Bisi header to come out before I make a final decision. We all know what he can do with single cam Honda's, let's see what he can do with a twin cam.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:11 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

you doing all this work yourself or are you looking to buy a build and have it installed?

a built and assembled block will run you around 2500-3000 dollars. The top end build will run you around another 2500-3000. The bolt ons you need to support this kind of build will run you another 2000-2500 dollars. Plus tuning, add another 500-1000. And add another 500-1000 for misc labor and parts.

I'm not really in any kind of place to say get X parts because honestly, you need to know WHY you are getting a certain part and why you would need to do these extra little things to ensure the efficiency of a total setup.

And you cannot compare numbers with other dynos other than the one you are going to be running on. Shooting for a number in general is just going to set you up for failure to meet the goals you want to meet. What you need to do is look around at other peoples builds and check out the shape of their curve and see what kind of times and ET's they run at the track since that is where you REALLY get to see how well and engine performs.

All motor is not the easiest way to go fast. It takes either A) a lot of personal research to come up with the perfect combination of parts. This perfect combo is likely not cheap and is likely not always going to be easily assessable aka custom parts or B) a lot of money to hand over to a shop that already knows the perfect combination.

No offense to anyone here (even myself) but no one is really qualified enough in building engines to say get this...get this ....get this...and you will reach X power level. It just isn't that easy. I know it hasn't been easy for me to determine what parts work the best. It's taken a **** load of time and a **** load of money to land me where i am now. I'm not saying you have to do things like me, but i understand the reasons why my setup works so well and that really helps when you are trying to go fast and not spend the thousands of dollars in shop fees and labor fees.

anyway, i dont think that really helped you all that much but whatever.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:26 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

^damn i always thought it would be just like a video game, you go street race, you get money, then u upgrade the engine throughout the stages, i thought i would have gotten a 25% power increase with all my upgrades, and im at a -7%, why did they make engines so complicated?? jeeeeeeeeeeez
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:28 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

the basics of them are not complicating at all. But when you get into engine flow dynamics, combustion processes, engine timing effects....it gets a bit complex.
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:37 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

You should make your goal "to increase whp/wtq," that way you can't be disappointed after you dump all that money into it.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:07 PM
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Thanks for your insight everyone...esp 98vtec

All work would be done in my friends garage (can hold about 10 cars...600hp DSM GSX, M3, Evo, Integra, Hatch , and 2 supercharged skis are all housed in there).
My friends are capable of doing all the work and I can do some of the install.

This is what i wanted to do. Have all the parts laid out ready for install and do it at once.

My research was done online for a build...I looked at other h22s and what their build/parts and specs were and made a list off of that

I will buy a couple a parts here and there...starting off with the head.
I will notify you guys how things go w/pictures and let you know the difference in performance. Build will start in 4-6 months and probably take a year.

Seeing that it is so hard/not money friendly to build a fast N/A Prelude I may end up going Turbo after slight rebuilding.

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^damn i always thought it would be just like a video game, you go street race, you get money, then u upgrade the engine throughout the stages, i thought i would have gotten a 25% power increase with all my upgrades, and im at a -7%, why did they make engines so complicated?? jeeeeeeeeeeez
Haha I wish it was like that.
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:24 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

98vtec hit it right on the head. now it seems also that you are heading in the right direction.... i am talking about building the head. since the head is extremely crucial in any motor build...

THIS IS MOSTLY OPINION ... (also my experience not telling you what to do but things to think about and to get people into more of motor build discussions on this forum)

N/A ...lets face it if your going this route you are not mentally and financially ready for a real turbo setup. so.. you most likely wont be building up the bottom end as much.
therefore... once again from my opinions... get a set of TYPE S pistons which will bump up your compression numbers and you will be able to keep your stock rods etc. a thinner cometic headgasket will also get that compression up there. my thoughts the ideal N/A comp is almost a 12.1... considering from my understanding TYPE S pistons are aprox 11.5.1 comp. obvioulsy high octane needed. possibly the kaizenspeed balance shaft eleminator kit.... this will lighten up the rotation assembly and free up some horse... and yes i have the kit on my fully built H and NOT A SINGLE PROBLEM... feels like i have a muscle car lol.

now the head.... port and polish would definitely free up the flow of air/fuel/and exhaust which is real important. but from what i have done only the intake side is ported and polished which is also combined w/ my skunk2 intake mani and hondata manifold gasket... this had added and extra 20hp to my boosted motor. for an allmotor you might be sacrificing some torque to gain more high end horsepower. i would DEFINITELY recommend a valve train upgrade.... if your gonna do valves though stay stock bore DONT GO OVERSIZED... alot peope try and usually run into alot of issues w/ oversized valves. next would a be a good set of camshafts. those would usually be a good 15hp gain.

finally tuning is key... i run w/ hondata... i had the s200 now upgraded to s300. another thing i did was do minimal bolt ons ... at first and tune... just so you see a good baseline and your able to compare everytime you add a couple different things. there are tons of other little mods that can be done... egr bypass/coolantbypass/3" exhaust yes 3" ive seen it in action... and there is no complaints . if you have other questions.... ask/search/ somebody has done what you are looking to do... compare or just try your own setup .... just remember it really comes down to money/trial and error.
money > fast
fast is not reliable
reliable - more money
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:23 AM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

Quote:
I will notify you guys how things go w/pictures and let you know the difference in performance.
You better. OR ELSE!. Yeah man just take your time like your said, don't rush, it if you don't know how to do something, don't try and **** it up. You definitely need a good tune to top it off. And we need lots of pics, even if they're just of new parts.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:13 PM
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Re: h22a Build (Comments and Info needed)

how you getting on with ur engine build?
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