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Streetable Compression Ratios??

 
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Old 09-05-2006, 12:55 PM
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Streetable Compression Ratios??

I am in the process of getting my motor back into my car the end of this week. I have a 98 Base. The original motor cracked a ring at 195 thou or so and I figured its a good time to start over. I'll give a quick run down of the motor and the car so everyone is up to speed.............

New Motor-

Darton Sleeves
JE 11.5 to 1 pistons
Crower Rods
Skunk2 Valves, Springs, Retainers
Skunk2 Stage 1 Cams (in old motor at present time)
ARP Studs (complete motor)
Endyn Oil Pump
330 Injectors w/ Upgraded Fuel Pump
MSD Ignition
DC Header (on old motor)
AEM V2 (on old motor)
Thermal Cat Back (also on car at present time)
AFCII Air Fuel Controler (Going to Emanage Ultimate very soon)

There may be some things I missed but that give you guys an idea. I want to continue to use this car as an everyday driver though lately I have getting some opinions from other people telling me I will have a hard time running pump gas on 11.5 to 1. I had talked to quite a few people before the build and they all seem to feel it would be fine. Now that the engine is going in they are starting to second guess me. I did my share of research on the build and hadn't seen where this had been a problem as long as the car was tuned properly. What are some of you guys out there take on the matter?
I'm looking to get in the 230-240 whp range. Does that sound reachable?
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Old 09-05-2006, 08:26 PM
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Welcome to Preludezone!

I must say that your setup is sick. it does have some flaws however.

Well let me start off with my questions for you first:
1.) are doing an auto to manual tensioner swap?
2.) are you going to keep using a DC header?
3.) are you going still use the skunk2 stage 1 cams?

230whp will be hard to make man.. I made over 220 but I had WAY bigger cams than stage 1's. your dc header will render your power by about 5-15whp if the entire motor is build. Look into SMSP, RMF and or Kteller header.

well the general rule is that 11.5:1 compression is ideal for pump gas. The thresh hold is 12.5:1 on pump gas. In my honest opinion I wouldn't go over 11.5ish compression on pump gas. Why? Because you can't run too much of an aggressive timing at that rate. So if your motor is ~11.5:1 cr then I think you'll be fine with a good tune. Not a POS one.

its gonna be hard to make 230-240whp with that setup man.

T.E.L.
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Old 09-07-2006, 12:12 PM
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I am going to use the auto tensioner for the time being. As for the cams, I want to leave them as they are for now beings it is my everyday driver for now. That may change though in the near future. As far as the header goes I have an electric cut out mounted on it so for track and dyno purposes I can open it up. Fun as hell opening up on the kids in town with their bolt on fart cans!! I was at the shop last night and had them go ahead and get everything to install the Emanage Ultimate and an AEM wideband. I hadn't cut too many corners to this point figured why stop now. Know anyone looking for a VAFC II for 125 bucks? Thanks for the insite on the compression situation, that makes me feel better. I hope when you say that is a SICK build you meant that in a good way. I would hate to know what a unsick build would cost. I think I am going to have in the motor more than I paid for the car when its all said and done. But, thats the cost of having fun right. Everyone will agree power is great though it is not cheap!!!:(
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Old 09-07-2006, 12:23 PM
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lol sick means great!...
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Old 09-10-2006, 01:36 PM
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my comp ratio is 11.8:1 on 93 octane. My mods are pretty extensive, but not too extreme. My daily street tune weilds ~250whp. The motor can be tuned ~50whp higher for drag racing but it cuts down on street drivability. TEL is 100% correct. Your cams are far too small, and the header too restrictive. Sounds like you're on the right track to a very nice NA build, but you might want to consider making a few changes before everything is finished. It's very hard to make N/A power w/o a lot of money, but when you do you'll get the respect from the right people.
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:26 AM
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Sorry my computer crashed been out for a while. I miss qued on the sleeves. AEBS not Darton. Sleeves were installed by V10(Z10?). Anyone heard of them? My local machine shop had the block ready for the swap this week, all that was left was to bore the sleeves 40thou and assemble the block. All the head work is complete, what a pretty site. If I can figure it out I'll post pics. Upon sleeving the block they found impurities inside the sleeves! Looked like termites had been in there eating!! Now the block has to shipped back out and have new sleeves install and start all over again:kaioken: Has anyone heard about this problem with this brand of sleeves before. First on me. What header should I consider for this build and send me a link for it if you don't mind. I'm afraid going to a stage 2 to cam will affect my everyday driving more than I want it to. How is the idle with the stage two?
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:35 AM
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the lobes on my cams are bigger than that of the crower stage 3. my car idles at 1200rpm and it's great to drive. get some stage 2 cams, upgrade to a better header. this will allow you to tune for some more power. you'll be unhappy w/ the car if you don't do this.
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Reading this thread was like watching pulp fiction the first time...

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Old 09-17-2006, 09:36 AM
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oh yeah. have them upgrade you to darton sleeves. I've NEVER heard of problems w/ darton of any kind.
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As it is, I wouldn't trust you washing my balls. And I typically let any trick hoe from OT do that.
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Reading this thread was like watching pulp fiction the first time...

Cool quote Utopia.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:03 AM
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battle of the na's i saw an all motor gsr and crx last night, gutted out horrible, the crx dud high 12;s of the 1/4miles and the gsr was soooooo clean... gpoodluck with build and the NA guru's know their **** so hit them up with rep points and dont be shy to show your gratitude

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Old 12-18-2006, 02:04 PM
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ok guys its been a long time coming but I think it is about done. I waited about 2 months for AEBS to get a set of sleeves that I could use. My comp. will net out at 11:3 to 1. The car should be done Thursday. The machine shop seemed to miss palaced the oil pressure regulator. Where is a shop that has a dyno that will tune an e manage ultimate in virginia somewhere. With the wide band I can get it close but I would like to get it to a dyno and see what kind of numbers its doing.
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Old 12-28-2006, 01:33 AM
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AEBS is the one of the best sleeve you can get. darton sleeve is for like street setup man. Im not a N/A guy but for the sleeve i could tell you now. 100% better than dartons. I alrdy shipped my block cple weeks ago so i should be getting it back in few days or a week. and have fun with your n/a and i wanna c the numbers on a dyno.

ps- wat kind of dyno are u going to use? dyno jet? mustang dyno??? etc??? and are you gonna be on street tires when u tune it? or slicks???
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Old 12-28-2006, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 95h22a1turbo View Post
AEBS is the one of the best sleeve you can get. darton sleeve is for like street setup man. Im not a N/A guy but for the sleeve i could tell you now. 100% better than dartons. I alrdy shipped my block cple weeks ago so i should be getting it back in few days or a week. and have fun with your n/a and i wanna c the numbers on a dyno.

ps- wat kind of dyno are u going to use? dyno jet? mustang dyno??? etc??? and are you gonna be on street tires when u tune it? or slicks???
do you have experience with darton to say that?

to the op. Your compression is more than streetable. I'd even go to the extent of saying you could run that on 91 octane as long as the timing isnt too aggressive. IMO, i would say i could see your current build running around 200-210whp. Your gonna need more lift and a better exhaust system to be able to hit your goals.

A larger throttle body would also compliment your build alot. The h22 craves some intake, so the more you give it (to an extent) the better off you will be.
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Old 12-28-2006, 02:21 PM
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yes i do 98vtec(hater) i would love to show u pics right now and u'll see why AEBS racing is lot better than just darton sleeves.

u are going to be mad.
AEBS

Darton

see the difference and if you dont see the difference between those two, u need to slap ur self twice. and yes i had darton sleeve but they werent that great. darton sleeve are for street set up. not drag set up
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Old 12-28-2006, 02:38 PM
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again, by the way. If you were gonna say about darton is better material than the AEBS. think again. "Bulletproof sleeve design featuring three-dimensional supports that greatly reduce dynamic side loading commonly experienced by conventional replacement sleeves. AEBS T-Sleeve with solid deck technology provides unsurpassed head gasket surface sealant area. All sleeve work comes with matched cooling ports to the factory head gasket. This ensures optimal cooling efficiency for both the cylinder head and block. Engineered for Naturally Aspirated, NOS, Turbocharged and Supercharged engines.

Patent pending allowed
Same material used in top fuel cars
Successfully tested to 55 lbs. of boost
"Best engineered sleeve" ... Sport Compact Car"

Darton.
"Darton now has engineered a superior solution to open-deck sleeve weakness by using a unique design which creates a solid deck of sleeve flanges held in tension, reinforcing the upper deck area and provides for in-field replacement with what they call “Modular Integrated Deck” (MID).

The Darton MID kits feature:

• Improved block integral strength
• Improved cooling
• "Wet sleeve" replace-ability
• Increased horsepower output potential
• Superior oil and compression control
• Street or strip application
• Kits can be installed by your local machine shop
• Full installation manual with every kit sale
• Superior cylinder sealing and ring wear
• Ductile iron w/130,000 psi tensile strength"
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Old 12-28-2006, 05:45 PM
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if you cant answer my question in a mature manner, then you have personal issues. This drama bull**** needs to stop. Grow up kid.

I dont know much about sleeves since i have no need/want/drive to have a 700whp FWD street car. If you could explain it without acting like an asshole, maybe you could teach me something. I enjoy learning, i'm not ignorant like you. Instead of posting what you found on their site (which is obviously going to try and say they are the best sleeve due to marketing), why dont you explain yourself why they are the BEST?

The one company that i know has a very good sleeving process is Benson. They use the same T-sleeves that AEBS uses.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=565375

If Earl were still alive, i would tell you to ask him about the structural differences between sleeves. He was a firm believer in Benson's process and i was/am a firm believer in damn near everything he had to say considering he was one of the innovators of our hobby.

but you will prolly post back with some smartass comment thus making my thoughts of your ignorance grow even more. Keep it up.

Last edited by 98vtec; 12-28-2006 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 12-28-2006, 06:20 PM
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this is also a thread about compression ratios, not block sleeving. AND considering this is the NA forum, where we dont need hardcore sleeves, your post is very irrelevant to the topic.

so now back on topic.....

Your compression is completely streetable. The type S has 11:1 compression from the factory and you are only a half point higher. THeres guys running upwards to 13:1 compression and running pump gas but also have one hell of a tune and are usually running so very high lift cams.
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Old 12-28-2006, 07:51 PM
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How can anyone in their right mind say that darton sleeves aren't good?
This is my block, it's beautiful. Blake can attest to the fact that Frank @ pocketrockets does great work, and wouldn't use junk parts.

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As it is, I wouldn't trust you washing my balls. And I typically let any trick hoe from OT do that.
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Reading this thread was like watching pulp fiction the first time...

Cool quote Utopia.
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Old 12-28-2006, 11:42 PM
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95h22a1turbo. consider this your first and last warning about getting racial on here you hear me? cool it, or i lock this thread. now that i think about it, blake's right. question's been answered.
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