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:::71dsp::: 98 base

 
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:15 AM
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:::71dsp::: 98 base

A bit of info and pictures of my Prelude track car. The classes I will run in use a weight-to-power ratio, so my target race weight is 2626 lbs (with driver) with 335-ish WHP.

Engine:
Motec M400 ECU
GTX2867R turbo w/Tial 0.86 housing
Tial MVS wastegate
Tial Q blowoff valve
Garrett core intercooler
ID1000 Injectors w/Rosko fuel rail
S2k throttle body
Euro R crank pulley
3" stainless exaust with 3" core x 22" OAL custom Coast Fab muffler
T1 breather
34-row Setrab oil cooler w/Mocal thermostatic sandwich adapter & -12AN plumbing
10-row Setrab trans cooler w/Tilton pump
Fluidyne radiator

Trans:
Kaaz LSD
Circuit Worx 4.714 FD
4Gen VTEC 4th-5th gears
Carbon coated synchro rings
Competition Clutch 6 puck sprung clutch
Competition Clutch light weight chromoly flywheel

Suspension:
Koni 2812LB shocks
Hypercoil spring w/H&R helpers
Tanabe tubular front sway bar
Custom 3-piece rear sway bar w/1.25" x 0.188" center section
Adjustable sway bar end links
Spherical bearings throughout suspension

Brakes:
Wilwood SL6 front and Powerlite rear calipers
Wilwood 12.9" x 1.25" GT front rotors (converted to full floating rotors)
Wilwood 11.66" x 0.72" GT rear rotors
Tilton adjustable prop valve
Civic 9" brake booster
Integra 1" MC
Stainless hard line & stainless braid soft line

Wheels & Tires:
Enkei PF01, 17" x 8.5", +40mm offset
Hoosier 225/40/17 R6

Interior:
Sabelt Taurus XL seat
Personal steering wheel w/RaceTech QR
Safecraft 6 point harness
Safecraft RHS driver's net
Stroud window net
KTuned aluminum K-Series shifter w/KTuned shift cables
SPA AFFF fire system
Multi-point cage
Motec C125 datalogger/digital dash

There is no ICE; it's a track car. :)

I'm in the process of building an F20B, and may add another transmission to the build. The F20B will use Carrillo rods, Wiseco or CP pistons, Ferrea valve train, Ferrea or 4 Piston Racing with roller rockers or DDTech cams with OEM rockers, and a few other things. I may pick up a T2W4 trans, and if I do that, it'll use a MFactory LSD, MFactory clutch pack FD, and a few other little tweaks.

Old picture.


Cleaning chassis, getting ready for powdercoat


Back from the powdercoater


Back from paint



Reassembly (kind of)



Turbo is a GTX2867R - plumging is routed like this so a proper air filter can be used and to retain the front engine mount.



Brakes



F20B nearly stripped down to get sent out to the engine builder.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:49 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Wahoo! That's some serious ****! What tracks do you run?

Also, weird question, why worry about routing piping to retain the front mount? Looks like you still have the OEM mount bracket in there with the stock sub-frame. I thought that was something trackers upgraded..but then again I've only come across a small handful of true Prelude tracksters.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:55 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Texas World Speedway, Hallett, MSR Cresson, MSR Houston, and Eagles Canyon are all tracks within 5 hours of me.

Using all four engine mounts gives it the engine the most support. Already seen one 5Gen break a trans housing without using the front mount. The OEM front subframe is required by the rules, unless you want to take the penalty for moving up to a non-production car.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:18 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

When your car is on that frame rack, can you spin it like "The Price is Right?"
Without going over a dollar of course


Yeah I'd be the ass to try it!
That is some awsome shenaningans you got going on! How much weight centering have you done, if it's allowed? Always had the idea to have fuel cells in the rear footwells with plumbing to join them. Definitely get video coverage somehow!
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:24 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

What do you mean by weight centering? Do you mean trying to move weight toward the center of the car? If so, no I haven't done any of that. If I were to need ballast (if I do, it'll be very little, I think, perhaps 25 lbs), I'd probably put it in the passenger floorboard.

The OEM fuel tank is centrally located and very low. It's very well protected by the chassis, so there aren't any plans for a fuel cell. I may do a surge tank or something of that nature later, but there aren't any plans right now. Doing a fuel cell in the OEM location would be quite expensive with either a custom molded fuel cell, or some extensive cutting of the chassis where the OEM tank mounts. Rules require a metal bulkhead between the driver's compartment and the fuel cell. I had thought about going with a fuel cell with a smaller capacity, but now that I'm planning to run E85, I think I'll need the OEM tank capacity. I won't know until I do some testing, though.

I just acquired a T2W4 trans, so I'm looking forward to rebuilding it. :)
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:26 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base








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Hey kids... Reference material here.


Friggin' awwwwwesome!!!
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Last edited by bykfixer; 01-13-2014 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:49 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

That's Great! Don't mind me, still getting my geek on about your settup, i'll be in the corner over here
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THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:56 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Here are few other pictures.

Brakes



Engine


Interior




Old picture from NPM06


Hoping to have the car finished soon. Might be complete before the engine is done, but hoping to have the car on the dyno with the new engine around March.
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:43 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Awesome. Truly awesome.
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:46 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

That last pic is computer background material.
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Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 01-13-2014, 02:32 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

That some serious $$CHEDDAR$$
Nice Race Ka!
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:20 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! VERY NICE JOB!! HOLY CRAP!!
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:20 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

hey what part of DFW do you stay?? i live south fort worth
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:44 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Appreciate the compliments guys. Lazarky, I'm in the southern part of the metroplex.

Looking forward to getting it back out on track. Last time I had a W2W race was in 2008. Going to have to get out there and knock the rust off.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:10 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

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Originally Posted by 71dsp View Post
Appreciate the compliments guys. Lazarky, I'm in the southern part of the metroplex.

Looking forward to getting it back out on track. Last time I had a W2W race was in 2008. Going to have to get out there and knock the rust off.
yeah get going man, knock that rust off and get back out there, would like to see how the lude performs... GoPro and rtecord it
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:36 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

didn't expect to see all this lol good stuff man loving that 5th gen.. what shifter is that?
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:53 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Lazarky, I'll have a RT Video4 installed in it. You can see it in the interior shots. It allows me to overlay datalogged data on the video.

SoFlaKidd, it's a KTuned K-series shifter.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:19 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

You know you're a real Race car driver when your co pilot is an adjustible wrench lol!
That stays in there for good reason
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:47 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

ahh thats what i thought it was, got a chance to play with one at honda day in orlando its absolutely awesome
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:50 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Wow amazing!!!! Is that your z4?
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:39 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

^ No, that's my wife's Boxster.

Picked up the T2W4 today. The case is more corroded than I expected from the pictures (hard to see in the pictures), so pretty much all the bolts exposed to the elements will get replaced, and I'll figure out something to do with the case to make it look new again. Maybe blast it.

Here are a few pictures. Will take more after I get the case apart tomorrow. I have an intermediate shaft, shift cables, and a starter if anyone is interested. Also will likely sell the LSD. I'm mostly interested in the main & countershafts and the gears.

I did notice that the VSS is plastic. Found that very strange. Not sure if any of the USDM VSS bodies are plastic.



If you guys have any questions about the setup, I'm more than happy to share details or post more pics. :D
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:01 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Are obese people banned from "all you can eat" buffets? Of course we want details!!!!!
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:18 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

I might be interested in the LSD


oh wait… you were talking about limited slip, weren't you?


Nice build man, any chance of going to any meets?
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:43 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

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Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
Of course we want details!!!!!
I have a bunch of the specs in the first post, but not sure what else you guys want to know. :) The replacement engine is just now getting built, so it won't be on the dyno for a couple of months. The specs posted are for the engine that's in the car now, but we'll probably just get the base map for the ECU going using the current engine.

The plan for the F20B is to sleeve and bore it out to 88mm so that the engine is around 2.2L (2,141cc vs 2,157cc).

The class that I plan to run in is determined by an adjusted weight-to-power ratio, and I need to make right at 335WHP (torque is not taken into consideration). So the hope is that the engine can build torque as quickly as possible and then taper off as RPMs climb. The ideal power curve would be for the engine to get to 335WHP as quickly as possible, then hold it flat out to 8500 RPMs or so.

Something like this:



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Originally Posted by brodie94 View Post
Nice build man, any chance of going to any meets?
I haven't been out to a meet in a very long time, as the Prelude isn't street legal so it never gets driven on the street. I'll be out at a few track events once the car is done (hoping for a March completion timeframe).

Last edited by 71dsp; 01-14-2014 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:07 AM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

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Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
Are obese people banned from "all you can eat" buffets? Of course we want details!!!!!
Are bullfrogs water proof?

Do cats come sith climbing gears?


Ok, one more stupid question 71...
Why F20 engine? Class rules? I see you're gonna bore it to 2.2...Weight perhaps?
I'm curious about the potential of that engine vs those popular ones. Yours is a great reference.
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Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 01-14-2014, 01:46 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Are you still gonna be using the GT28 on the F20? How soon will it reach full spool?
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:50 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

finally you make a thread in pz lol
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:58 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

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Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
Why F20 engine? Class rules? I see you're gonna bore it to 2.2...Weight perhaps?
I'm curious about the potential of that engine vs those popular ones. Yours is a great reference.
Engine geometry. The F20B has slightly better engine geometry than the H22 and much better engine geometry than the H23A VTEC. I had originally thought about going with an H22 or H23A VTEC. I didn't want an earlier H22 since they use 50mm mains, and many of the JDM H22s on the market are earlier models. USDM H22A4s were over $1,300 at the local salvage yards, so I ruled those out. I was able to find an H23A VTEC and an F20B at the same shop for $700 each. I originally thought that an H23A VTEC would work well, but the engine geometry bothers me on a track car, so I went with the F20B. Had it been an NA engine, I'm not sure what I would have chose, but I would not run an H23A VTEC out to 8,500 RPMs for sure.

What the F20B lacks in stroke over the H23A VTEC, I can probably make up with gearing and a bit of boost. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
Are you still gonna be using the GT28 on the F20? How soon will it reach full spool?
Good question. Note that I'm using a GTX286R, quite different than a GT28.

From what I've seen on some 2.0L Audi builds using the GTX2867R and their curves look like the following graphs. I have the 0.86 housing, and thought about swapping out to the 0.64 housing to get better spool on the low end since I don't need much boost on the top end.
Solid lines are 0.64 A/R turbine @ 30psi
Dotted lines are 0.86 A/R turbine @34psi


2.0L Ford Focus with a GTX2867R 0.86 housing. I like the low end torque, even with a 0.86 housing. This is just about as much power as I'd need to make, but would need the power curve to extend out to 8,500 RPMs or so.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:36 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Thanks for the answer 71. Answered my question perfectly.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:32 PM
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Re: :::71dsp::: 98 base

Note that the H22 has a rod/stroke ratio of 1.58, H23A 1.49, and F20B 1.65. We're contemplating sticking a 2mm longer rod in the F20B which increases the rod/stroke ratio to 1.67. A 1.75 rod/stroke ratio is considered "ideal" although engine builders like Smokey Yunik advocated sticking the longest rods you can into an engine. I'm not saying that rod ratio is the end all be all (it's all about compromises within the entire system), but a long rod works better in an engine that stays at high RPMs for an extended period (i.e. an endurance engine).

Lots of reading here: Importance of Rod Ratio? • Speed Talk
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