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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2008, 12:49 AM
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Head Build up

ok fairly soon i'm going to take the car off the road and have the head built up.

i'm planning to do a full N/A head build. i was going to have the valve seals replaced anyway so i figgured i might as well build it while it's apart.

H22a4

target expense $2500 (lightly flexable)


Need:

Engine Management (need piggyback because of ATTS)
? Greddy E-manage

Valves
Springs
Retainers
Seals

Cams
?Skunk2
?Crower

Fuel injectors

?fuel pump

?Port and Polish

Extras
-head gasket
-timing belt


anyone have any thoughts or have past experience with builds like this? am i missing anything big? is my target price reasonable? any ideas?

i'm going to be calling some tuning shops tomorrow. one that primarally does machining and one that does mostly bolt-ons and tuning.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:57 AM
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I used a full crower valvetrain
dual springs
titanium retainers
+.05mm intake and exhaust valves

cams.
stage 1= skunk2
>stage1= crower

RC injectors
walboro 255lph fuel pump

find a reputable shop for the port and polish ( will make the car much quicker in conjunction with the parts you buy)

cosmetic head gasket
greddy timing belt
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:05 AM
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Wow. thanks for the input. just the kind of input i was looking for.

can you give me a little more on your thoughts about the Cams? i was up in the air about stage 1 vs stage 2. reading the descriptions about the skunk2's i think what i'm looking for is right between a stage one and 2. i don't plan on trying to make the thing rev to ten million RPM. infact if the HP peak stays right where it is i would be happy.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:08 AM
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don't go over stage 2. stage one, you don't have to change the valve train. if you are insistant on changing it, you might as well go for the stage 2's and get some extra power. just make sure you have a good tunner that knows your greddy piggyback so you can get the most out of your mods safely.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:10 AM
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for cams i would say skunk2 i heard there good for more high end power(u do want to raise the redline) also heard jun is good. as for ur budget im not sure i think maybe save up some more cause these parts are expensive and when u go to a shop ur gonna have to pay for labor, and i think leaving the car there also,
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:12 AM
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good call.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:17 AM
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u need to upgrade the valvetrain with any cam that has higher lift than stock.

Unless you have a type S motor, you would need to upgrade for stage 1 cams.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:24 AM
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 98vtec View Post
u need to upgrade the valvetrain with any cam that has higher lift than stock.

Unless you have a type S motor, you would need to upgrade for stage 1 cams.
wait, how much bigger are the lobes on the skunk2 stage 1's compared to the stocks?

it has been said and written on so many forums that the stage one's were safe for stock valvetrain. maybe I misunderstood and it was just for the type s. ugh, now I have to go back and check.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:35 AM
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wait, how much bigger are the lobes on the skunk2 stage 1's compared to the stocks?

it has been said and written on so many forums that the stage one's were safe for stock valvetrain. maybe I misunderstood and it was just for the type s. ugh, now I have to go back and check.
no you don't have to go back and check because what you've stated is true. The thing is, are you going to half ass it or do it right? That's what it boils down to. If I'm upgrading from stock cams to anything I'm upgrading my valvetrain for my own peice of mind.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:40 AM
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then don't tell me I'm wrong damnit. lol you got me all paranoid for a minute.

point being ace, not everyone does things like we do. some people are on a strict budget lol. I was just giving him options.

man you had me scared.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:41 AM
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yeah i plan to do the whole valve train, i have the luxury of doing it all at once so i get to pick all parts that work well together.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:42 AM
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That's the thing, we have to get these Luders thinking in the manner of doing things to the ludes right. If they are on a budget for cams it should include valvetrain lol...
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:43 AM
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oh yeah and... HOLY **** JUN CAMS ARE EXPENSIVE!!!!!
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:44 AM
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just read this:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread...41634#27141634

do NOT upgrade the cam in a base motor without proper valvetrain.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:45 AM
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^ lol. welcome to the world of N/A. jun products are crazy high.

nice thread blake. That guy put a lot of time into his post, thumbs up.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:58 AM
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nice thread blake. That guy put a lot of time into his post, thumbs up.

That guy's name is Rosko, an innovator for/with a lot of h22 parts. particularly the euro r manifold. All the things I had to fabricate for mine to work right he offers them at really good price once you know how much raw materials cost.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:10 AM
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he's a great friend too. Behind the scenes mad scientist
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:14 PM
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it looks like i'm going to be going with
crower stage2 cams
crower +1mm valves
crower duel springs
crower retainers
crower cam gears

greddy e-manage or e-manage ultimate

full port and polish


does any one have any thoughts on which greddy to use the base or ultimate
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:15 PM
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use the base emanage..apparantly quite a few people have had problems with the ultimate
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:22 PM
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How is your bottom end? Have you ran a compression check/leakdown before you do all this? Remember that a chain is only as strong as its weekest link... it would suck to spend all that money to upgrade your head and then blow a piston ring or something...

Last edited by BadMofo; 01-25-2008 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:38 PM
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Yeah I own the E-manage ultimate and if you have the VTEC wired through the e-man it wont let my car rev over 6500 ( kinda like if your car is cold ) but what I did was set it to were I wanted (4750) unhooked and placed it back to stock and runs fine and the vtec kicks in at 4750 even though its wired up stock ( Fvck if I know how thats working )
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:50 PM
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stick to stock sized valves unless you are very confident in your machinist who does the valve job.

If you ever end up running a large cam, running the oversized valves will come back to haunt you when you get valve to valve contact and ruin the motor.

I'd honestly choose a different cam as there are better out there.
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Old 01-26-2008, 11:05 AM
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I wonder when someone will come in with a wad of cash so we can point them to these babies.
http://www.cranecams.org/index.php?s...lvl=4&prt=2033

I'll second that on the better cams. I was dead set on Crower 2's for a while. Now I've been having a change of heart. Skunk2's cost more, but they make more power.
While we're here though, what do you know about the Blox cams Blake? I haven't seen anybody use them and give any feedback.
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Old 01-26-2008, 11:41 AM
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skunk2 pro1s
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:11 PM
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I might have to rip my head apart here shortly, I'm fairly convinced I have some bent valves lol.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:35 AM
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The best advice is to find a shop you can fully trust. After that, everything is just $
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:31 PM
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The best advice is to find a shop you can fully trust. After that, everything is just $
The best advice is to learn all you can about it and know what you want and get it instead of letting the shop do all the thinking for you.
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Old 01-31-2008, 08:09 PM
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new angle on things!

I started discussions with the guys down at On Demand Performance in westerly about building the head on my H22. He spoke to his guy in San Diego Cali. and the came up with preliminary plans for a nice package for me.

stage 3 port and polish
ported and matched intake manifold and throttle body.
tapered throttle body from 74mm to 64mm
oversized valves, titanium springs and retainers
new guides and seals

likely Apex-i VAFC2
and AEM V2 intake

likely larger fuel pump posibly injectors

all this is going to retain stock cams for reliability or switch to the type s cams which are still factory on many h22's

estimated to yield 30 WHP. with room to grow.
redline will be increased from 7500 to 8500 rpm and head will be capable of 11000 rpm (per the dude in san diego who appariently has done may h22 builds) bottom end would need lots of work to pull that **** off.
the most difficult part of the whole thing is going to be the tuning which needs to be done piggyback so i can retain my torque transfer system. he's going to be playing around with a VAFC2 on someone elses car to see if it will be reasonable for mine or we nee to go another route.

the best part is that he has a spare h22 head that he can ship out to san diego to be machined so my car will only be off the road for a few days instead of a month.

i know some people who have had dealings with on demand and said good things about them, and so far they guys have been very enthusiastic about the project so i think it will go well.

i still need to do some research on the whole tapered throttle body thing because i've never heard of it but appariently it's a technique that the machinist uses often wit good results.

whatcha think?
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Old 01-31-2008, 08:39 PM
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The tapered throttle body is a fairly common technique, althought i've never heard of a taper that drastic... but then again, i'm not an n/a master like some other people on here lol. But yeah, I see a lot of 70-66 tapers, 68-66, 68-64 etc... It's a good technique because it allows maximum airflow up until the taper, where it will cut down on flow slightly, but increase the pressure/velocity of the air into your IM.
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