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rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

 
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:14 PM
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rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Hello all,

I purchased a 96 prelude si 2 weeks ago. I checked Vin and it is a true 22 vtec car. Very rare. BUT!!!! The guy did a h22a jdm swap :/ . I am having trouble and I am at wits end trying to figure this out. Car hunches slightly from time to time under normal driving conditions. It also will tend to back fire in vtec. Car feels like it's begging to be turned loose but something is holding it back. In vtec I hear what sounds like valve float. I also have a tach that has lost its mind. It's all over the place. It'll bounce between 3 and 4 grand at idle! I'm convinced I have an ignition problem. The guy swapped p13 for chipped and tuned p28. Used a conversion harness connector. Also has aftermarket header and throttle body.

I'm convinced the issue lies with the dizzy. He installed a TD 77 dizzy on the jdm motor. The car came originally with the TD 77 I believe. I've heard of wire cutting and splicing... I've heard of replacing oil pump.... I've heard of all kinds of 'tricks' to fix my problem. But the problem is that TD 77 connectors have LESS wires and different colors so I can't knowledgeably change anything.

I don't know what the guy has done as far as wiring. I know nothing except upgrades he specified. He said the car was running high 7s in the 1/8 before. Well..... now I wouldn't even put it on the track...

Somebody PLEASE help me out with this. I'm going insane!
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Old 05-31-2014, 09:31 PM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Sorry, the Si with VTEC isn't rare, it doesn't exist. In Japan it was just called the Si-VTEC (BB1 and BB4) and they aren't that rare either and they came with the H22A. What is the chassis number? Is it a JDM import? The Si (BA8 and BA9) over there did have a 2.2, but it was the F22B which is not VTEC. The US Si (BB2) had the H23A1 which was not VTEC either. Enough with semantics though, on to the issues at hand.

The P28 is not a bad ECU to be using with the H22A, it's just the secondary intake runners won't open (hopefully these have been taken out) and the knock sensor will not work. What chip does it have? If it is a Hondata with data-logging then checking the log might reveal what is actually happening, there may also be some CEL's disabled. Does it have an aftermarket intake manifold too?

It sounds like your timing is out and it is running too rich or there is a problem with the distributor as you say. Also, when the tach jumps does the engine actually change note or is like the tach needle is dancing independent of RPM? This could also suggest a problem with the dizzy like a poor ground or dirty contact. The TD77 is a distributor for a H22A4 so the wiring might indeed be different. You should have a TD60 in the JDM H22A since it uses an internal coil, but they may have done the conversion to use an external coil. It might be worth doing some additional research and finding out the differences in the harnesses and see if it's all wired up correctly, and check the connections to see if they're still good. As you say, if it was running high 7's on the 1/8 then it must have run ok at some point.

Replacing the oil pump won't achieve anything unless it is not performing correctly, does the oil pressure light ever come on while it is running? I don't think there are any "tricks" to fix the problem, the engine is still stock enough that if all the components are running properly then the engine will run fine.

Failing all that, you could try swapping an original dizzy and harness back in, I personally can't see a benefit of running an external coil on a nearly stock motor.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:57 AM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Well, Im the farthest thing from an expert when it comes to preludes but a VIN NUMBER search revealed the car did indeed come original with a 2.2 VTEC inline 4 gasoline motor. I checked Carfax as well as 3 other sources and they confirmed. It also said there were only 12% of those cars ever made. Not gonna argue cause I don't care. Just telling you what 4 Vin searches revealed.

Now. As I said before, I don't know what the guy did to the car. But its supposed to be chipped with hondata. I have done research for a full day yesterday. The TD 77 was found in ALL trim 96 model ludes.. 97 and newer is when they switched everything according to several auto parts store searches.

The internal coil dizzys are crap and have a high failure rate. Overheating ruins ecm inside as well as the internal oil seal tends to fail. Again, I've searched this . I found one guy that preferred the internal coil dizzy out of the countless threads I've read on the matter. Everyone else has gone external coil. The benefit for me is simple. That's what I want. Cheaper and easier to replace external coil if it fails than to replace the entire dizzy for that problem. As well as that's what I've always run and there are several options with coils. I like that too.

No I do not have an oil pressure light come on. That's not the reason for changing the pump. It has something to do with the tdc cyk and cyp sensors. I haven't quite figured it out but some people have done it as a means of rectifying this problem.

I do have cel. 9 and 21 . cylinder position and VTEC solenoid.

The tach moves independent of actual motor rpms. Maybe I wasn't clear enough .... Sorry about that. Tach will bounce all over the place. At idle as well as while driving. It has a mind of its own.

No aftermarket intake. Though there is a cold air intake upgrade. K&N. There is a STR ??? Throttle body. He said 70mm but I'm thinking like 65. I'm planning on getting the skunk2 intake when I get everything straightened out.

I guess at this point its either try internal coil dizzy or take it to someone. It really pisses me off though lol. I have been around American V8s since I was little. I've built a coup,e of motors and worked on motors with over 2300 HP. I am pretty good at this kind of thing. But this car ..... Well...... I don't know jack..
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:54 AM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Sounds like you have a mess on your hands.

My thoughts are you go back to original equipment. Let the Honda engine speak to the Honda computer in old fashioned stock language and start your own process of installing your own modifications as you learn what does what as you go.

These things can be finicky. Once you start switching things around it's easy to have a mess on your hands.
And it sounds like you hope to solve your issue, but by changing stuff even further from stock.

No offense but if you don't even know whether your throttle body is 65 or 70mm, what else did the op state that may or may not be for real?

I bought my first prelude in the dark of know how like you. The seller says it's got this and that. I bought it for the car, not the mods. Well as I learned I also learned the seller was full-o-$h1t and have been either undoing or correcting modifications ever since. Once that's done I'll move forward with correct procedures and pathways based on knowledge from gremmies here at pz who actually know what they are doing and not based on the hack jobs posted all over the internet.
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Old 06-06-2014, 07:19 AM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Thanks bykfixer. Yeah man I know the cat was full of it. I bought the car for the flawless interior not the mods. And I'm not quite sure I understand when you say I want to fix it by changing further from stock. I'm fairly confident that my problem lies in the ignitor. I'm going to buy a dizzy. If anything I'm going closer to stock. The h22a is an obd1 motor yeah??
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:29 AM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Like I said before I'm no expert with these things. But I think the TD 60 is the correct dizzy for the jdm h22a. I know it's not right for the obd2 car but I know for certain I have a chipped p28 ecu. So I'm gonna get the dizzy and jumper harness. And I'm thinking I'm gonna go ahead and get a new chip To make sure ive got the right basemap for the motor as im not sure what this guy has done.. Found a company that sells them with different basemaps and I can give them a list of mods (exhaust and so on) and they can kind of tweak the basemap for a BASELINE performance enhancement. All for 50 bucks.

I've seen the name of the chip company floating around these forums but the name eludes me now. But that's where I'm at. Gotta go to bristol next weekend for the NHRA thunder valley nationals so it'll be two weeks before I get everything and get it put in. But I'll def let yall know how it goes. I reckon I've gotta start somewhere and I know I'm getting power to dizzy and coil. And coil is brand new. 0 miles on it. So the only thing left is ground or dizzy... I've checked grounds so that leaves dizzy. If yall have anymore suggestions between now and then please don't hesitate to weigh in. Thanks alot guys. I really do appreciate yalls help
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:44 PM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

The Hondata can be flashed with whatever map you want, you've just got to find a local tuner that knows what they're doing. I think you can even find Hondata base maps online, you'd just have to find a way of getting it into the chip. It makes no sense to rip out a good chip though. A $50 chip is going to be a piece of **** and likely **** your motor. A stock ecu should be fine for the mods you are running too, so if you can get your hands on a cheap P13 that would fix it too.

Be aware that a brand new coil can still be rooted too, I've seen them fail straight out of the box. They're a pretty finicky item.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:29 PM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Tass, I have the original p13 ecu that was in the car. I've but I've heard from a couple of threads that a p13 obd2 ecu won't correctly run the obd1 jdm motor? I've tried it of course and I didn't see anything wrong with it. Other than my original problem not being solved.

The reason I want to utilize the p28 is because when I get this thing running right I'm going to boost it. That's a few months down the road but that's the plan.

I tend to agree with you on the chip issue though. I was skeptical of quality because of the price.. I'm gonna have to find that site and give you guys the name of the company that has them. Like i said, I've seen there name floating around in several forums.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:31 PM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Phearable.net is the name of the company I found chips at.
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:30 AM
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Re: rare 96 si 22 vtec trouble

Bought new td60u dizzy. It fixed everything other than. Slight hesitation. But I believe that's in the tps. I know the tps IS bad because I broke it. But no more popping and backfiring. Vtec works like a champ
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