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Old 03-24-2014, 05:34 PM
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Stage 1 Cams?

Looking to maybe install some stage 1 cams and thoughts on tuning required? And if anyone has or knows someone who has cammed a honda what kinda power would I expect?
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:39 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

What engine are you running, do you have any other modifications and I wouldn't just throw cams in without either a piggyback or a chipped ecu + tune from a tuner. What cams are you looking at?
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:41 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

I am running an h22a4 with adjustable cam gears intake exhaust clutch flywheel upgrades.... And was looking at skunk2 cams
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:48 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

If you get the skunk2 cams it would be beneficial to tune. Also, tuning will help get the most out if your aftermarket intake and exhaust.

I would use something like an apexi neo, moated ostritch, hondata s300, etc. to tune. With skunk2 cams and a decent tune with your setup be expecting ~210 whp (240ish bhp). Correct me if I'm wrong guys.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:57 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Seems well worth it for about 1500 in parts plus tuning labor and all that.... I have 151 wheel horse now and 139 torque so that will be a very nice mod!
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:59 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Should I rebuild the valve train with a stage 1 setup?
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:01 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Well they might be a little high. Do you have an aftermarket header? Stock might be robbing a little power if its restricting flow. Do yourself a favor and get a piggyback, they are easy to tune, as long as you have a wideband and you don't have to go through the pain of burning and reburning ROMS for chipped ecus. your stock figure of 151 whp seems pretty low, you should really only see about 15-18% drive train loss on a fwd car. Losing 25% of your bhp through the drive train on fwd seems almost impossible without there being something wrong. What's your compression like?
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:17 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Well I'm running a 3 in exhaust bought it like that I guess it was gonna be a turbo project but car runs strong I can get compression readings tomorrow!! Also running a stick manifold both intake and exhaust also has no cats
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:21 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Stick manifold?
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:23 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Stock sorry lol
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:24 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Oh stock. Stock should be fine for your application. From.what I've seen on honda-tech and preludepower, stock h22a4 in a 5th gen put around 165-175 at the wheels.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:28 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

I could be there could of been a bad dyno setup cause the car runs real well like those numbers I have are inaccurate!! VTEC pulls real nice as well!! Now a piggy back setup is different from a stand alone ecu?
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:30 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

How would I know if I have a wide band?
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:37 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

A wideband, for our cars at least is a purely aftermarket part. You have to buy one and install it to have one, like the Zeitronix wideband has its own screen and everything to mount inside your car by the dash or something.

Once you have a wideband you can use that to see your AFR if you want to do tuning yourself with a piggyback and laptop.

A standalone ecu replaces the whole ecu, and are typically way more expensive. My brothers' hydra setup for his car has cost him upwards of $1000 already. A piggyback uses your stock ecu and "fools" the ecu into recieving readings that are wrong to pull or push more fuel, where as a standalone you have to set up individual injectors and such (at least with hydra you do).
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:45 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Well that makes sense that's what ill look into appreciate the insight and suggestions on this I'm a mechanic myself but really not to educated on tuning and building lol now is it me or is 5th gear high cause at 70 I'm running 3500 rpms
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:45 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

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Originally Posted by mkastle87 View Post
is 5th gear high cause at 70 I'm running 3500 rpms
nope,exactly where it should be
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:23 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Here at 5500ft elevation, I pulled 152whp/140wtq on my H22A1, but those are corrected numbers for elevation and aren't generally pinpoint accurate. So, depending on your location, you can expect some differences between setups. I think that 210whp might be a little generous..

As for cams, if you're going to spend the money to put cams in and tune, you may as well put a stronger valvetrain in- springs, retainers, new valve seals for sure. New valves aren't really necessary unless you've burnt them to a crisp so with a stage 1 cam, I don't think I'd worry about them. Skunk2 has a pro series and a tuner series camshaft. I haven't looked into the differences extensively, but I think you'd probably gain more from a pro series if you're not gonna turbo.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:42 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garurumon View Post
If you get the skunk2 cams it would be beneficial to tune. Also, tuning will help get the most out if your aftermarket intake and exhaust.

I would use something like an apexi neo, moated ostritch, hondata s300, etc. to tune. With skunk2 cams and a decent tune with your setup be expecting ~210 whp (240ish bhp). Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

A tune helps with any modification besides a catback and intake.

apexi neo is junk

Before suggesting Hondata - always check what the emissions/inspection is like. Converting to an obd1 ECU makes many 'ludes fail an obd2 port test.

210whp is very wishful thinking with just stage 1 cams, they honestly aren't even worth the money.


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Originally Posted by mkastle87 View Post
Seems well worth it for about 1500 in parts plus tuning labor and all that.... I have 151 wheel horse now and 139 torque so that will be a very nice mod!

Not worth it at all. Keep researching.


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Originally Posted by Garurumon View Post
Well they might be a little high. Do you have an aftermarket header? Stock might be robbing a little power if its restricting flow. Do yourself a favor and get a piggyback, they are easy to tune, as long as you have a wideband and you don't have to go through the pain of burning and reburning ROMS for chipped ecus. your stock figure of 151 whp seems pretty low, you should really only see about 15-18% drive train loss on a fwd car. Losing 25% of your bhp through the drive train on fwd seems almost impossible without there being something wrong. What's your compression like?

156whp is stock. So the car def needs a tune up. 3" exhaust robs power on the low end.




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Old 03-24-2014, 08:58 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

yeah im essentially looking for mild power upgrades cause quite frankly dont have the money to invest in full engine builds and turbos and all that jazz! i mean i can go more aggressive cam as long as i use upgraded valve springs retainers etc...which is what id lean towards anyways...and yeah the 3in kills my low end may change that as well go to a 2.5in some head work and tune but id rather just get all parts first and tune once...New exhaust and intake manfold throttle body the cams probably stage 2 any higher is for turbo application i believe the new valveterain and stop there cause for me that would be a pretty decent street car...just wish this car wasnt so FAT!!! lol adn when tuning lower VTEC to about 4500 rpms
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:15 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

I did the s2 stage 1's in my b17 awhile back. Solid gains across the board. I also did high comp valves with it.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:17 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

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Originally Posted by mkastle87 View Post
New exhaust and intake manfold throttle body the cams probably stage 2 any higher is for turbo application i believe the new valveterain and stop there cause for me that would be a pretty decent street car...just wish this car wasnt so FAT!!! lol adn when tuning lower VTEC to about 4500 rpms
You won't benefit as much from a more aggressive cam unless you perform work to raise your compression which..ideally..you'd do by performing bottom end work.

Also, if you have a dyno sheet of your car, you'll notice VTEC engages close to where your HP overtakes your TQ curve. Lots of people always talk about lowering it so you can be in VTEC longer but, that is a misconception. Different parts will work together in a way that you may benefit more from raising it's engagement point...
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:24 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

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Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
You won't benefit as much from a more aggressive cam unless you perform work to raise your compression which..ideally..you'd do by performing bottom end work.

Also, if you have a dyno sheet of your car, you'll notice VTEC engages close to where your HP overtakes your TQ curve. Lots of people always talk about lowering it so you can be in VTEC longer but, that is a misconception. Different parts will work together in a way that you may benefit more from raising it's engagement point...
You sir are spot on. Turn vtec off and run it then turn vtec on at 3k and run it. Where the two tq curves meet is where you want vtec to engage. Whether it be higher or lower than factory, that's where it should be.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:28 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

you dont have to raise compression to see good results
WHP is just a number which doesnt mean anything
WHP varies from dyno to dyno
X does not always equal y
3" exhaust does not hurt "low end"
stage 1 cam other than the Pro series is a waste of money
you cant just throw parts at your car and expect to make power
a lot of people dont make good power NA because they think like the last comment
tuning is essential and not all tuners are created equal
vtec will be where the engine likes it the most which is strictly dependent on the overall setup
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:38 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

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Originally Posted by 98vtec View Post
you dont have to raise compression to see good results
WHP is just a number which doesnt mean anything
WHP varies from dyno to dyno
X does not always equal y
3" exhaust does not hurt "low end"
stage 1 cam other than the Pro series is a waste of money
you cant just throw parts at your car and expect to make power
a lot of people dont make good power NA because they think like the last comment
tuning is essential and not all tuners are created equal
vtec will be where the engine likes it the most which is strictly dependent on the overall setup
Was that a reference to my post or his?
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:42 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98vtec View Post
you dont have to raise compression to see good results
WHP is just a number which doesnt mean anything
WHP varies from dyno to dyno
X does not always equal y
3" exhaust does not hurt "low end"
stage 1 cam other than the Pro series is a waste of money
you cant just throw parts at your car and expect to make power
a lot of people dont make good power NA because they think like the last comment
tuning is essential and not all tuners are created equal
vtec will be where the engine likes it the most which is strictly dependent on the overall setup
It's really funny seeing these posts all the time. It's always some crazy wishful thinking and a 'budget' build. If you have to mention cost, you probably can't afford to make any power like you're thinking. I remember 5 years ago, I had the same ideology. Expect to spend big bucks for big power. $1500 for something that may net you a little power is worthless. It takes several thousands of dollars working in tandem to make any gains that'll be noticeable. Sorry, thems just the rules.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:12 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

I'm not looking to build a super car just a little bit more then stock so I can and will spend little dollars for little power I'm satisfied with that! One day when I make good money I will build better but wanting to do things within my reach is totally acceptable!
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:15 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

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I'm not looking to build a super car just a little bit more then stock so I can and will spend little dollars for little power I'm satisfied with that! One day when I make good money I will build better but wanting to do things within my reach is totally acceptable!
I understand your goal. I was there only a few years ago. I'm just suggesting that once you see the end result of $X (X<3500 or so) amount of investment, you're probably going to be very disappointed.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:20 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

Yeah probably so! But I guess you can say this is my start just like you had yours lol it's all good just looking for direction cause as I stated earlier I'm not well educated on a/m builds which is why all who are here have a much better sense where I should invest my money
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:22 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

I could have turboed for a little more than I've spent for N/A and had twice the power. But I like going against the crowd.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:36 PM
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Re: Stage 1 Cams?

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I could have turboed for a little more than I've spent for N/A and had twice the power. But I like going against the crowd.


twice. triple. quadruple. all at the turn of a knob
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