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The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

 
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:06 AM
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The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Since Prelude's aren't getting any younger, more and more threads of oil/coolant leaks keeping popping up more often. Hopefully this'll give people an inside view of the motor to help them diagnose/pinpoint where these leaks are possibly coming from.

Looking to make this a complete thread with links to other threads, Honda part numbers of the seals, and other relevant info pertinent to leaks. Also this isn't only gonna be the engine block, that's just what I'm starting with. Once complete it'll include the head, tranny, and maybe power steering system.

*Note; these pictures are of an H23a1 block. For visualization purposes, H22's are basically identical with regards to all the sensors and components.
F22's are VERY similar, they're only missing the Knock Sensor, and the Oil Pressure Sensor is ABOVE the oil cooler, instead of below like the H's.

(We're not getting into similarities with block materials, FRM/Iron walls, since none of that is relevant to leaks)




So.... you have an oil/coolant leak.
Unfortunately we need a BIT more info than that in order to help you figure out where its coming from. Pictures help a lot, but for those who can't post pics, you're gonna hafta narrow it down to which side/where on the motor its coming from.

You need to always remember that fluids will drip from TOP to BOTTOM!!
If the front of the valve cover/head is covered in oil, it wouldn't make any sense to look at the oil pan gasket, since that would defy gravity.
But if your oil pan is filthy, you gotta consider everything ABOVE the oil pan, up until its clean.

(The exception to defying gravity would be if the leak is around spinning pulley's or belts, which would fling oil/coolant/fluid radially outwards around the pulleys, everywhere basically.)



Color Codes:

For visual demonstration purposes, here is the color chart of the following pictures;
GREEN = COMMON SEALS/GASKETS THAT BREAK/DETERIORATE, OR POTENTIAL PLACES THAT COULD LEAK COOLANT ONLY!
YELLOW = COMMON SEALS/GASKETS THAT BREAK/DETERIORATE, OR POTENTIAL PLACES THAT COULD LEAK OIL ONLY!
BROWN = COMMON GASKET (HEAD GASKET ONLY) TO LEAK FROM
BLUE = BOLTS/BRACKETS/STUDS/SENSORS THAT BOLT TO THE BLOCK, BUT DON'T PENETRATE INTO ANY OIL/COOLANT PASSAGES, THEREFORE COULDN'T BE A POTENTIAL PLACES TO LEAK FROM.
RED = DIRECTION SO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.




SHORT BLOCK:

Starting with the 4 different sides of just the engine SHORT block, I'm gonna start with the easiest/simplest side, and work around to the hardest, most complicated side, which just so coincidentally happens to be in a clockwise direction, starting at the side that faces the front of the car, when looking down at the top of the engine.


Left side; faces the front of the car, underneath the header primary tubes.
The picture below shows the front side of the short block, completely disassembled and stripped down.



And an easier visualization to help with what's what, direction, and components.



And to show the common places to leak from;





Green:

Freeze Plugs;
These plugs lead into the coolant jackets so that you can completely drain the block of coolant, buttttt..... its very very rare for these plugs to come out, loose, or even start leaking (Unless these plugs were recently removed.) But its a good idea to check them though.





Brown:

The top horizontal brown line represents the head gasket (gasket between the head and the block.)
If your engine is clean above this line, but dirty below it, I'd start with the head gasket.
*Insert links to other head gasket problems here*



Yellow:

The bottom horizontal yellow line represents the oil pan gasket (gasket between the block and oil pan).
If your engine is clean above this line, but dirty below it, I'd start with the oil pan gasket.
*Insert links to oil pan gasket info threads/DIY's here*



Red: (shaded box)

Other than the Freeze Plugs, there is absolutely no physical way that oil/coolant can leak from inside the engine block to the outside of the engine inside the shaded red box.






Therefore; other than the freeze plugs, there is no physical way oil/coolant can leak from inside the engine outside by coming through the front side of the engine short block.
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Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?

Last edited by twokexlv6coupe; 03-10-2013 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:06 AM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Rear side; mates to the transmission.
Completely stripped and naked, other than 1 Freeze Plug.



With some direction so you know what you're lookng at



And some common places to leak from:





Teal:
-Teal dots; holes/dowels that use bolts to hold the transmission to the block.
-Teal shaded area; Under normal operation with nothing leaking, there should be NO fluid in this area at all. This is the area where the clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate operate, and if any fluid got in that area, would probably cause the clutch to slip.




Green: Coolant Leaks

Freeze Plugs;
These plugs lead into the coolant jackets so that you can completely drain the block of coolant, buttttt..... its very very rare for these plugs to come out, loose, or even start leaking (Unless these plugs were recently removed.) But its a good idea to check them though.





Brown: Coolant/Oil Combined Leaks

The top horizontal brown line represents the head gasket (gasket between the head and the block.)
If your engine is clean above this line, but dirty below it, I'd start with the head gasket.
*Insert links to other head gasket problems here*



Yellow: Oil Leaks

The bottom horizontal yellow line represents the oil pan gasket (gasket between the block and oil pan).
If your engine is clean above this line, but dirty below it, I'd start with the oil pan gasket.
*Insert links to oil pan gasket info threads/DIY's here*
In addition to two more parts/components that could leak oil.

1) -Rear Main Seal plate;
A plate that holds the rear main seal, and bolts to the block. To properly seal this plate against the block requires HondaBond (or an equivalent sealant) around the yellow line I've drawn.
*Insert links to HondaBond/equivalents*




Rear Main Seal Plate installed;


2) -Rear Main Seal




Here you can see the Rear Main Seal plate installed, the red circle which represents the end of the crankshaft, and the Rear Main Seal which is brown colored.
The RMS is a very common seal to start leaking, and once it does, you'll notice oil dripping from between the block and the tranny.
To check this for yourself, you can take off the flywheel cover, and there will be alot of oil in there.
*Insert links to Rear Main Seal part numbers*




Therefore; on the rear side of the motor, there are technically only 3 places to leak from if there's fluid coming from between the block and tranny, altho chances are its most likely only one of them. If its coolant, its the freeze plug (highly unlikely).
If its oil, chances are highly likely its the rear main seal, or the gasket behind the plate, if the plate was taken off recently.
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2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?

Last edited by twokexlv6coupe; 03-06-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:07 AM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Right Side; faces the back of the car.
The picture below shows the rear side of the motor, ALMOST completely disassembled. It still has the oil cooler and oil pressure sensor attached.



With some colors for directional purposes.



And common places to leak from;




Green: Coolant Leaks

1) - Freeze Plugs;
These plugs lead into the coolant jackets so that you can completely drain the block of coolant, buttttt..... its very very rare for these plugs to come out, loose, or even start leaking (Unless these plugs were recently removed.) But its a good idea to check them though.


2) - Oil Cooler/Lines;
The oil cooler uses the engines coolant to cool down the engines oil temperature. The coolant comes in one of the rubber hoses, circulates around the cooler, than exits out the other rubber hose. Just with any other rubber hoses, they can dry out, deteriorate, and start to leak.


3) - Water pump/pipe; (not pictured)
Altho this pipe isn't pictured, it's very obvious to see it from under the car. This pipe supplies the water pump with coolant to be circulated around the engine, and there's a rubber gasket/o-ring around the end of the pipe that goes into the hole on the left side (drivers side) of the block.
Along with anything else that's rubber, it can dry out and deteriorate, causing a leak.




Brown: Coolant/Oil Combined Leaks

The top horizontal brown line represents the head gasket (gasket between the head and the block.)
If your engine is clean above this line, but dirty below it, I'd start with the head gasket.
*Insert links to other head gasket problems here*



Yellow: Oil Leaks

1) - The bottom horizontal yellow line represents the oil pan gasket (gasket between the block and oil pan).
If your engine is clean above this line, but dirty below it, I'd start with the oil pan gasket.
*Insert links to oil pan gasket info threads/DIY's here*


2) - Oil Cooler O-ring
There's an O-ring between the engine block and oil cooler which is VERY VERY common to break and start leaking, and once it starts leaking, will leak ALOT of oil VERY fast.
*Insert links to DIY O-ring change and Honda Part Numbers*





3) - Oil Pressure Sensor
This sensor reads oil pressure, so obviously is connected to an oil passage inside the block.
If its leaking from here (First make SURE it's not from the Oil Cooler O-Ring since that's a VERY VERY common problem), could be due to a couple things;
-Sensor came loose
-Broken sensor/fitting
-Threads are messed up



4) - Rear Balancer Shaft Alignment Hole
Whenever you do any work where you need to take the balancer shaft belt off (timing belt, oil/water pump, crank seals, etc...) you have to realign the rear balancer shaft by sticking a bolt/screwdriver through this hole and through the balancer shaft, so it obviously goes into the engine block.
If its leaking from here, it could be due to;
-Forgot the bolt
-Bolt came loose
-Threads are messed up.



Blue:
Other than everything listed above, there are no other holes on the back of the block that protrude into any oil or coolant passages, therefore can't leak from anywhere else.
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?

Last edited by twokexlv6coupe; 03-10-2013 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:08 AM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Lastly, is the Timing Belt/Front side of the Short Block

Here's a picture of the Timing Belt side completely stripped down bare. No crank, oil/water pumps, balancer shafts, nothing.



Another picture illustrating where the oil and water pumps mount to the block, and the Head Gasket and Oil Pan Gasket.




And finally with the oil and water pumps mounted




Yellow: Oil Leaks

1) Front Crank Seal
Should be replaced with every timing belt job, or if leaking.
*Insert links to Honda Part Numbers*



2) Front Balancer Shaft Seal
Should be replaced with every timing belt job, or if leaking.
*Insert links to Honda Part Numbers*



3) Rear Balancer Shaft Housing Seal
Should be replaced with every timing belt job, or if leaking.
*Insert links to Honda Part Numbers*

When removing/replacing the oil pump, the two mating surfaces need to be perfectly clean and sealed with HondaBond, or an equivalent sealant. The sealant gets applied to around the outside of the oil pump, also shown by the yellow line going around the block.


Green: Coolant Leaks

4) When the water pump starts going bad, coolant will literally piss out of the rear hole of the water pump.
Should be replaced with every timing belt job, or if leaking.
*Insert links to Honda Part Numbers*

When replacing the water pump, there's a rubber gasket that seals the pump to the block that should also be replaced.
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?

Last edited by twokexlv6coupe; 03-10-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Opened the thread up if anyone has any helpful/useful links, such as;
-Honda Part Numbers/diagrams
-DIY links
-questions/comments/concerns/ideas of what else could be included in here.
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?

Last edited by twokexlv6coupe; 03-06-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:32 PM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Part my my leftover list of replacements from the rebuild..


1995 Honda Prelude, 2.2 VTEC, MT, ABS

Head Gasket: 12251-P13-004
Oil Pan Gasket: 11251-P0A-000
Valve Cover Gasket Set: 12030-P13-000
Water Pump Connecting Pipe O-Rings: x2, 91314-PR7-A00
T-Stat Case Gasket: 19313-PT0-000
Upper Radiator Hose: 19501-PT0-000
Lower Radiator Hose: 19502-P13-A00
Cam Seals: x2, 91213-PR3-004
Rear Main Seal: 91214-PLE-003
Oil Dipstick O-Ring: 91309-PJ7-010
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:57 PM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Thummbbbb up!
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:15 PM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Looks great. Hopefully it helps a lot of people.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:50 PM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

wont let me rep you right now..... but good writeup man, +1 rep from a post
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Old 05-26-2014, 07:01 AM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

Great lovely stuff!
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:16 AM
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Re: The OFFICIAL Oil/Coolant Leaking Thread

When putting an oil pan back on....

^^ un-used hole on oil pan.
The hole is on the (usdm) driver side at the rear. H22 and H23 vtec have it. Can't speak for other motors.
Put lots of permatex around that sucka. Otherwise a small leak results.
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