Honda Prelude Forum
 
Go Back   Honda Prelude Forum > Tech-Talk > General Tech Talk

Thread Title
Hard starting now

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:02 PM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Hard starting now

Alright, so my Prelude has always had a bit of a hard starting issue which seems to be exacerbated by fuel levels under a quarter tank. Since it turned cold, however, it's damn near impossible to start in the mornings. Instead of turning over a few times and finally having a solid start, it's turning over a bit more and having halfass firing once or twice until it catches solid. Aside from incredibly low compression (at 227k on my H22A1), are there any other suggestions? I can't remember when I did my last tuneup, but I think it was maybe a year ago. Maybe a year and a half. Okay maybe it was two years lol. I can't recall, but I know I've replaced the plugs (NGK Laser Platinum OE plugs, according to Honda), and wires and such. It's probably been 25-35k miles since I last touched anything under the hood, aside from oil changes. I also replaced the fuel filter at the same time I replaced the plugs. I'm going to seafoam it this weekend just for good measure.

As for fuel, I don't think it's an issue, because when she runs, she runs fantastic. Plenty of power. If fuel was an issue, I would figure it would choke out at higher RPMs.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:40 PM
twokexlv6coupe's Avatar
little green ghouls, buddy!!
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: kitten mittens
Posts: 17,844
iTrader: (9)
twokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to twokexlv6coupe
Re: Hard starting now

I bet its smoking on a cold startup, and burning oil too?
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2012, 06:44 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 640
iTrader: (0)
B20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond reputeB20Ballin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Sounds like you needa give that lude a blanket ;p to be honest a seafoam should clear it out, I've heard that stuff is like Jesus juice for cars eh been meaning to try it, good luck with your problem brah!
__________________



'92 Auto H22a "Wrecked"
'89 Auto B20A5 "Parted then wrecked"
'87 Manual B20A3 "Parted then wrecked"
'90 Auto B20A5 80,000kms INX "DD/project/early mid life crisis car"
'98 auto b20b orthia "small time project"
'91 manual DA9 B18A1 integra "swapped orthia for"
'96 SS BB6 Honda prelude h22a SiR s-type" swapped integra for"
'95 Mk1 Ford Mondeo (don't ask)
'94 BB4 Honda prelude, manual vtec h22a, chipped ecu, heavy duty clutch with short shifter (doner car)
I'm always the final owner of any prelude I own.


I'd rather lose by a mile because I built my own car than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:27 PM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
I bet its smoking on a cold startup, and burning oil too?
Not really. It goes through quite a bit of oil, but I know there are more than a couple of leaks especially at the cam seal... so until I fix those leaks, I dunno how much is actually burning. Maybe oil fouling on the plugs?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2012, 12:45 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dundee, OR
Posts: 195
iTrader: (0)
wheelerboy12 is just really nicewheelerboy12 is just really nicewheelerboy12 is just really nicewheelerboy12 is just really nicewheelerboy12 is just really nice
Re: Hard starting now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom240 View Post
Not really. It goes through quite a bit of oil, but I know there are more than a couple of leaks especially at the cam seal... so until I fix those leaks, I dunno how much is actually burning. Maybe oil fouling on the plugs?
your lude is much newer then my dads old one but his 89's fuel filter would clog every winter. would cause really hard starting and then once it started it ran fine, hope that helps...
__________________
Build Thread:
The Beginning of The End of My Wallet

Tuning 101: Car Hacks and Mods for Dummies
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2012, 01:55 AM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Spray starter fluid into the airbox for a good start, you're gonna kill your starter Man. fuel pump may be going too, not priming the motor right?
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2012, 12:23 PM
ProjectPrelude95's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 2,416
iTrader: (12)
ProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond reputeProjectPrelude95 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

go with a tune up, seafoam might help, is there any significant notice of color change in the exhaust smoke? if any? you could check your cap and rotor on the distributor too, maybe not sending significant spark. when you turn your key do you hear the fuel pump priming? does everything else sound normal?

and i agree with sideswipe, use starter fluid until you get this problem resolved... dont want to damage more parts in the process.

also what wheelerboy said, it shouldnt matter the year now, even with say a 10 year difference, all preludes are at least 11 years old, and going on 12 or more depending on year, so anything is a possibility, especially with high mileage.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2012, 01:07 PM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

I'll take a video of it one day to show exactly how hard it is to start. It doesn't take ages, but it feels that way. It will roll over maybe fifteen rotations before it starts. Yeah, I know it's going to be hell on the starter, but that's cheap and simple. Starter fluid is VERY bad for a motor, and I don't have an airbox anymore because of my intake.

As for hearing the fuel pump prime, I've never been able to hear it. I hear the PGMFI relay click, but the fuel pump has always been quiet in my car. If I take the sub box out from between the seats I might be able to hear it better. I do think that I have a weak fuel pump, or have a bad check valve which causes the residual rail pressure to bleed off when I shut the car down. Regardless, I'm going to look into my ignition parts and see how they look.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2012, 02:29 PM
twokexlv6coupe's Avatar
little green ghouls, buddy!!
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: kitten mittens
Posts: 17,844
iTrader: (9)
twokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to twokexlv6coupe
Re: Hard starting now

Once the motor gets running, take off the oil cap and let us know if you notice anything wrong.
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2012, 04:37 PM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Also remove the gas cap to see if you have vacuum pressure. If the seal is no good, you will solve the hard starts and with a new gas cap, improve your fuel economy. Definitely let us know.
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 02:49 PM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
Once the motor gets running, take off the oil cap and let us know if you notice anything wrong.
LOL hell no. It'll probably be like Odysseus's men opening the bag of winds. I know damn good and well that I have a ton of blow-by.

Unless there's something else I should be looking for, in which case I'm all ears.

As for the gas cap, should I hear air rushing in as I loosen it? I never really thought about the function of the gas cap.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.

Last edited by Phantom240; 11-18-2012 at 02:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 04:27 PM
twokexlv6coupe's Avatar
little green ghouls, buddy!!
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: kitten mittens
Posts: 17,844
iTrader: (9)
twokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to twokexlv6coupe
Re: Hard starting now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom240 View Post
LOL hell no. It'll probably be like Odysseus's men opening the bag of winds. I know damn good and well that I have a ton of blow-by.

Unless there's something else I should be looking for, in which case I'm all ears.

As for the gas cap, should I hear air rushing in as I loosen it? I never really thought about the function of the gas cap.

You're answering your own question- You know you have "incredibly low compression", which is usually from worn piston rings (or damaged cylinder walls). With worn rings, compression from the combustion process is blowing by the rings into the crankcase and out the oil cap. Oil is also blowing by the rings and getting burnt in the cylinders. And this is on a WARM engine.

On a COLD engine, the rings haven't expanded yet (since metal expands when it heats up), so there's even more ring gap. Bigger ring gap means even more compression is blowing by the rings, causing even LOWER compression. Low enough to not have enough compression to even start the engine.
You can confirm/deny this by doing a cold AND warm compression test. If the numbers drastically increase when its warm......
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:29 PM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Yeah, I've been dreading the compression test for ages. I know she's worn, I just don't want to have hard evidence to say just HOW worn she is. It's gonna be a heartbreaker.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:57 PM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

The bad rings have been trollo
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:09 PM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Which brings me to another question... a friend of mine has a D15 with over 370k miles, yet only one of his cylinders has alarmingly low compression... he never changes his oil, and treats the motor like **** in general. Why isn't his dead yet, while mine is on it's deathbed? Life is so unfair T~T
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:49 PM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Dunno brony, probably because no FRM WALLS. I would so get a f20b if I were you Corey, vtec, no fiber walls. Chaeper than piston ring work i guess, you have any relatives that got a cherry picker and a 2 milk crates??? Yeah I'm ghetto, lol wut.
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:31 PM
twokexlv6coupe's Avatar
little green ghouls, buddy!!
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: kitten mittens
Posts: 17,844
iTrader: (9)
twokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to twokexlv6coupe
Re: Hard starting now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom240 View Post
Yeah, I've been dreading the compression test for ages. I know she's worn, I just don't want to have hard evidence to say just HOW worn she is. It's gonna be a heartbreaker.

Understandable, you don't wanna confirm how bad the damage could potentially be.
But the sooner you confirm/deny it, the sooner you can start saving for swap/rebuild.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom240 View Post
Which brings me to another question... a friend of mine has a D15 with over 370k miles, yet only one of his cylinders has alarmingly low compression... he never changes his oil, and treats the motor like **** in general. Why isn't his dead yet, while mine is on it's deathbed? Life is so unfair T~T
Ehh, apples and oranges. Could be the iron cylinder walls, could be the previous owners were religious about maintenance...... lotta factors.
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:55 AM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
Understandable, you don't wanna confirm how bad the damage could potentially be.
But the sooner you confirm/deny it, the sooner you can start saving for swap/rebuild.




Ehh, apples and oranges. Could be the iron cylinder walls, could be the previous owners were religious about maintenance...... lotta factors.

I'm going to just replace with another motor. They're cheap enough, and I don't have time to fool around with honing and building anymore. Between work, home and other stuff, it would take me ages to rebuild. I'll be ordering a motor when income taxes come in. As worn as she is, I'm certain I could run it at least another year, barring unexpected failures such as timing belt or oil pump.

And the motor in his Civic is a failed abortion. One of the four previous owners deliberately tried to kill it with a 150 shot of nitrous, racing mustangs all night to give himself motivation to do his B swap. Didn't work, so he let it live lol. Damn wednesday motors.


Also, the F20B doesn't have FRM sleeves? What kind of sorcery is this?

I have everything I need at my disposal. We have engine hoists and stands all over the joint, LOL.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2012, 07:41 PM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Then stop f-in up your pelude till tax time man, get a hobby, preferably one with teets and baht for secksy tiem. How's the denali?
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2012, 07:49 PM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Um. Funny you should ask. Haven't done much. Between work and the new ladyfriend, I haven't had any spare time. Stupid adulthood :(
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2012, 09:36 PM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Yeah, faak adulthood! Well, at least you got a truck free with the purchase of the BBS rims!

Yeah, ladyfriends are good...

Be confident... You can't mess this up...
















You can't mess this up...


















HOW DID YOU MESS THIS UP!!!?????
Ask lazarky about the 6 ponies you' ll date in college, LMAO
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:43 AM
twokexlv6coupe's Avatar
little green ghouls, buddy!!
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: kitten mittens
Posts: 17,844
iTrader: (9)
twokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to twokexlv6coupe
Re: Hard starting now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom240 View Post
I'm going to just replace with another motor. They're cheap enough, and I don't have time to fool around with honing and building anymore. Between work, home and other stuff, it would take me ages to rebuild. I'll be ordering a motor when income taxes come in. As worn as she is, I'm certain I could run it at least another year, barring unexpected failures such as timing belt or oil pump.

And the motor in his Civic is a failed abortion. One of the four previous owners deliberately tried to kill it with a 150 shot of nitrous, racing mustangs all night to give himself motivation to do his B swap. Didn't work, so he let it live lol. Damn wednesday motors.


Also, the F20B doesn't have FRM sleeves? What kind of sorcery is this?

I have everything I need at my disposal. We have engine hoists and stands all over the joint, LOL.


Ok, so....
Do a cold and warm compression test, and if the results come out less-than extraordinary (what I'm guessing it is, which is literally WORST case scenario), start saving, and start BABYINGGGG the car until next april


Seriously, the rings are literally one of the worst things that could happen (other than blowing a hole thru the block). Cuz at the very least, you gotta do rings, and while that's all apart you might as well do the bearings as well...
But if the rings scored the cylinder walls...... you gotta get it bored/honed (decked and align honed...... debatable) as well as everything else....

cuz the only other reason for low compression is bent valves/leaking valve seals, which can simply be repaired by removed the head.
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?

Last edited by twokexlv6coupe; 11-20-2012 at 12:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:52 AM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Nick, is there a interval for hondas that would prevent all that horror you talking about? It's fair to plan for the disaster before it strikes. Wait a minut.... Didn't you get a h22 for 400.00 phantom?
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 01:13 AM
twokexlv6coupe's Avatar
little green ghouls, buddy!!
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: kitten mittens
Posts: 17,844
iTrader: (9)
twokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to twokexlv6coupe
Re: Hard starting now

Obviously the recommended timing belt replacement interval is 90K, in which its ALSO recommended to change the water pump and seals at the same time.

Notice the "recommended", b/c some cars, depending on which climates they were driven in, are going to need the seals changed sooner rather than later, due to temps, humidity, salt, corrosion, etc.....
But its not NECESSARY to change them, since they're not leaking........ yet.





Nahh, I never had an H22. But I did get my 2 other motors for a total of 400.
First H23 was 250, which only died cuz I didn't change the t-belt since I trusted the previous owner, and the other F22 was $150, which lasted for 20K miles @ 10psi
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:02 AM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Oops broke thought Nick, Phantom was supposed to be picking up a H22 from his friend, in an earlier thread this month, maybe last? Guess he didn't.

Intervals scare me, IMO, because if you add up the cost of the work involved at that interval... CRAY. A shame really that a swap is cheaper than a major interval, like 75,000 miles, where everthing needs to be changed.
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 10:27 AM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

I went to go pull the motor, and the schiester sold the whole shell to some other clown, so I got screwed. Another friend has one that had the head pulled off to check the internals of the motor and never got around to swapping it. Might look into it if it's cheap enough.

Also, took a video.
EDIT: Nevermind, the sound got all fubar'd when I uploaded it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.

Last edited by Phantom240; 11-20-2012 at 10:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:01 PM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Damn. Back to square one. Can f22 or f23 fit the bill for now? Those are cheap, go turbo!!!
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:54 PM
Phantom240's Avatar
Platinum Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: (3)
Phantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond reputePhantom240 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Pfft. Inferior motors shall not be swapped into a BB1.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
it'll sound like an ultralight airplane or a moped exhaust funneled through a kazoo.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:27 PM
Sideswipe SI's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Googlemap says I'm here... Dafuq?
Posts: 4,230
iTrader: (3)
Sideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond reputeSideswipe SI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hard starting now

Just a suggestion, no need to gaffaw at me, LOL!!! Euro-R is calling.... (ghost voice)
__________________
Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2012, 08:05 PM
twokexlv6coupe's Avatar
little green ghouls, buddy!!
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: kitten mittens
Posts: 17,844
iTrader: (9)
twokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond reputetwokexlv6coupe has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to twokexlv6coupe
Re: Hard starting now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom240 View Post
Pfft. Inferior motors shall not be swapped into a BB1.

You'd rather retain your Vtec pride more than having a running car hahahah
__________________

1995 Honda Prelude SE Turbo; 250whp, 275wtq @ 10psi Soldddd!!!

2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting to start hard whoisjeff General Tech Talk 6 04-04-2013 08:49 PM
engine missfire hard starting pulling codes cody 5th Gen Honda Prelude 7 10-04-2012 09:35 PM
Hard starting issues blackinblacklude 2nd Gen Honda Prelude 2 05-13-2012 08:42 PM
Hard Starting 90 Si ALB gmcfeaters 3rd Gen Honda Prelude 11 04-28-2008 10:02 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:17 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


Copyright © 2006-2009 PreludeZone.com All Rights Reserved.