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Which direction do the pistons go?

 
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:49 AM
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Which direction do the pistons go?

On the stock H22 pistons, there is a nice arrow. These Mahle's have no apparent marking. Which way is exhaust and which way's intake? I can't tell the difference in valve recess size just by lookin at it.

And also while I'm at it, I'm still working out what I don't need with this Kaizenspeed tensioner. There's no place for me to secure down the balance belt adjuster bracket, so I'm guessing I get rid of both that and the adjuster bearing itself? Or just leave it there to take up the space it'd leave otherwise.

Pics of the pistons first, followed by the KSTuned components;







This is the only thing that's stamped on the top;




Here's the timing components coming together. As you can see, the BS blockoff place coves the bolt hole the bracket bolts to;

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Old 10-05-2012, 09:17 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

If there aren't any arrows, there's "usually" a dot stamped into the face to indicate the front of the motor.




Chit... now you got me wondering if my CP's have any markings on them to indicate which direction they go...
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:50 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Hmm I'll have to look..

I emailed Mahle on Monday but haven't gotten a response. I probably contacted the wrong division of their company though, I dunno. Anyone know a phone # for them?
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:41 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

I know my CP's came with a spec/install sheet, did yours?
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:36 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Yeah they did but it's just a checklist of stuff like P2W clearances, P2V, ETC. Nothing about direction. I guess they just assume I know what I'm doing. Idiots!
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:19 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

why send specifics when they know those pistons will fail anyway
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:58 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Hey! They are just .003% better than oem...

Sorry it the the piston ring notches don't have any marker either? Those could give you a pretty good idea which way is front. Since they look symmetrical, guess it doesn't matter???
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:06 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

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why send specifics when they know those pistons will fail anyway
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Hey! They are just .003% better than oem...

Sorry it the the piston ring notches don't have any marker either? Those could give you a pretty good idea which way is front. Since they look symmetrical, guess it doesn't matter???
They're 11.5:1 compression. I wanna see what I can pull out of them as opposed to Type-S!

Before we put the rings in we looked everywhere for some indication. Couldn't find any, so I emailed Mahle. No response yet, so now I bug YOU.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:11 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

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why send specifics when they know those pistons will fail anyway
hahahaha trolllllolol
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:04 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Hello? Police? I believe I've been trolled? Yes? Five minutes? Great! I'll wait...

They're coming for you lindso....

Ummm, they should have a good idea which way to set the pistons. If it were vette pistons, one set (intake) is larger than the exhaust, so if its symmetrical, either way is good? The rod pin and nut don't help? Sorry man.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:07 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Eh it's all good. Gonna go get some Play-Doh and do some piston to valve clearance checks tomorrow. Guess I'll find out then!
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:15 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Wouldn't it be something that the information on the Top is the front? I remember one thing engine builder's told me: they make engines so children can assemble them. No marker better than the piston info... Just sayin.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:18 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

I thought about that, but if I put the writing side to the front, then the writing would be upside down, and then it confused me and I dismissed the thought.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:30 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

It sucks when you can't see the forest through the F---in Trees. Just wait for the email.

Been looking at the google monster and honestly, if the pistons do not have the arrow, send them back and get some. It's too vital to guess or get a half assed email saying "we put the arrow you can't see it." also, there are forums talking about how even with the arrows, the orientation is still wrong. I'd really send those back for quality control purposes.

Your build can wait.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:34 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Tomorrow we will see how the Jager feels about it.
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:11 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

I want to find a solution, but I can't find the right search words so far. As far as I've read, Mahle don't come with the arrow, but the mahle 4-3-2-1 PDF says they still provide arrows. I gotta sleep on this to see if I can find the right search terms, the Layman's english is no good. Also the pistons were somehow designed to work with 2 valve relief systems, to cut costs, so they may have some symmetry after all. I'll try again later today.

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Old 10-06-2012, 11:01 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

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Dreamkiller





They're 11.5:1 compression. I wanna see what I can pull out of them as opposed to Type-S!

Before we put the rings in we looked everywhere for some indication. Couldn't find any, so I emailed Mahle. No response yet, so now I bug YOU.
not trying to bash you, but I've yet to see favorable results that last a decent amount of time. If you're doing the work yourself, I guess it's worth a shot to see what you can get out of them. I'm pulling for you man.
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Originally Posted by M0B5TA View Post
hahahaha trolllllolol


call mahle customer service man! don't guess.
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Cool quote Utopia.
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:46 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

So I made my first signature picture last night when I was drunk. I think it turned out pretty good.

Now down to business...

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not trying to bash you, but I've yet to see favorable results that last a decent amount of time. If you're doing the work yourself, I guess it's worth a shot to see what you can get out of them. I'm pulling for you man.



call mahle customer service man! don't guess.

Yeah I read all 800 posts on the H-T Mahle thread, and most if not all bad stories are the guys going F/I. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's an old story that stock FRM sleeves don't handle >6lb of boost well. And over there, there's all these dumbasses thinking "Oh now they make this piston, well lets put it on 8-15lbs of boost and keep our high expectations because this piston magically makes my **** rainbows and fairies stronger". On top of that, the go and use the only bore they have available just to say they have the OS pistons, try to tune it themselves on Crome, and then hop back on HT to bitch about why it just didn't make it to 30K miles.

Now me- I'll be the first to admit if I mess something up, I have no shame in learning from mistakes and having to do something a couple times to get it right in the big picture. I know I've researched it to no end, and I am confident to say I've done just about everything correct to accommodate these pistons, so I can say with little doubt that if these things **** up, it's on Mahle.












Oh, aaaaand;













After staring at them for another..hours..I decided to go grab a stocker and look at it for some hours also. And then at them both side by side for more hours. It was really only like 15 minutes but it felt longer. If you look at the first pic in the thread that's looking directly at the top, you'll notice it's not symmetrical. If it were, there'd be a perfect diamond at the crest between the 4 valve recesses. Comparing it to a stock piston, the intake valve recess is bigger on them. I know this because the nice arrow on the stock ones help me figure out which side is which. So naturally, the side of the Mahle piston with less of a 'crest' I guess I'll call it, is the intake side.

After sticking some Play-Doh in said recesses, putting the head on, and manually cranking it through a couple times, I was able to verify that they're installed in the proper direction, I have a good piston to valve clearance, and expect not to be smashing the dome of these pistons into the valves as a result of my ginormous cam lobes.

Sherlock Holmes can suck it.
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:13 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

F-U-C-K-I-N-G AWSOME!!!!

800 pages? That's effin sick. These better make your car sound like satan ripped a holocaust fart when you hit it

Next hurdle: that timing chain kit... Right now, Im thinkin ARBY'S!!!
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:50 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Man I haven't had Arby's for a long while! Actually, story time;

2006, my little sister's friend was kinda into me so I asked her out on a date. Got kinda dressed up for it, loose khakis and a button-up, but left untucked as not to be too suave. Made reservations at this Italian-American fusion place where people dress like they're at a boat club even though there's no water within 200mi of here. Anyway, she doesn't get home in time to get ready to make the 8pm reservations so we miss that, she ends up not being ready til like 9:30 but she still wants to go somewhere to eat cuz she's starving or whatever. So I pick her up, I'm still dressed for the occasion and she comes out in jeans and a tank top, and I feel dumb. So I stopped at Arby's and got some curly fries and a cinnamon roll, drove to a park and ate, and that was our only real date.
That is my most recent Arby's experience.


Satan farting..well I have posted at one point that I'm not putting a resonator on my 3in exhaust for awhile. I'm sure I'll be the first to get annoyed with it, but it will be fun being annoying for awhile.


As for the timing pieces, I think it's best just to leave the old stuff there. The KSTuned kit came with a spacer for the spot on the crankshaft, but not for the one on that tensioner slot, and that bearing there kinds seems like it'll help keep the timing belt from walking around so I think I'm more comfortable keeping it there, I just won't have that bracket with the spring on there
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:21 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

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Now me- I'll be the first to admit if I mess something up, I have no shame in learning from mistakes and having to do something a couple times to get it right in the big picture. I know I've researched it to no end, and I am confident to say I've done just about everything correct to accommodate these pistons, so I can say with little doubt that if these things **** up, it's on Mahle.





After staring at them for another..hours..I decided to go grab a stocker and look at it for some hours also. And then at them both side by side for more hours. It was really only like 15 minutes but it felt longer. If you look at the first pic in the thread that's looking directly at the top, you'll notice it's not symmetrical. If it were, there'd be a perfect diamond at the crest between the 4 valve recesses. Comparing it to a stock piston, the intake valve recess is bigger on them. I know this because the nice arrow on the stock ones help me figure out which side is which. So naturally, the side of the Mahle piston with less of a 'crest' I guess I'll call it, is the intake side.

After sticking some Play-Doh in said recesses, putting the head on, and manually cranking it through a couple times, I was able to verify that they're installed in the proper direction, I have a good piston to valve clearance, and expect not to be smashing the dome of these pistons into the valves as a result of my ginormous cam lobes.

Sherlock Holmes can suck it.



DAMN, that info doesn't help me for my build, since my pistons are so low compression (8.2:1) that they don't have any valve relief's in the faces, wompp wompp
What are those CR? like 11.5?

I'm the same way with my motor build; if it blows up, oh well, I can only blame myself. Yea it'll be an expensive mistake, but that's how you learn after-all, isn't it? I won't
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:40 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Yes, they're marketed at 11.5:1. I've come across a couple instances though where they've been tested at closer to 12:1. I'm betting that's closer to sea level, so at my altitude I'm sure it dips down closer to 11:1 or even below a lil bit.

So did you not find the dot or markings on your CP's? And was your last sentence your complete thought? haha
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:03 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

And speaking messing something up, anyone ever do this to an ARP head stud?

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Old 10-08-2012, 08:09 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

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Yes, they're marketed at 11.5:1. I've come across a couple instances though where they've been tested at closer to 12:1. I'm betting that's closer to sea level, so at my altitude I'm sure it dips down closer to 11:1 or even below a lil bit.

So did you not find the dot or markings on your CP's? And was your last sentence your complete thought? haha


Whooops no idea what my partial thought of an idea my last sentence was supposed to be.


No dots or arrows or etching on the face of mine, and it doesn't say anything in the spec sheet either.
And the valve relief's are muchhhhh smaller too haha

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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:37 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

At least when you fahq ahp, :knock on wood: It'll make a cigarette tray like no other Nick.



My awshtrey haas an Comprayshun Rayshio awf 8.2.1 Cheerio pip pip cheerio, araiwght then... LOL!!!
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:52 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

But I dun smoke!



I wanna make some piston coffee mugs....

if I can figure out how to plug the wrist pin holes, and attach handles to an aluminum piston.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:57 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

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But I dun smoke!



I wanna make some piston coffee mugs....

if I can figure out how to plug the wrist pin holes, and attach handles to an aluminum piston.
two handles. handles plug the holes. double fist your coffee
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Cool quote Utopia.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:40 PM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

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two handles. handles plug the holes. double fist your coffee
This sounds like an executive membership is required to watch... Why did you say this Road Runner?
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:36 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

Hahaha I just got home from work and saw you guy's posts. That piston looks like an old beetle hub cap! That damn thing is so inverted I can't see where having a front and a back would matter.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:17 AM
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Re: Which direction do the pistons go?

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Yes, they're marketed at 11.5:1. I've come across a couple instances though where they've been tested at closer to 12:1. I'm betting that's closer to sea level, so at my altitude I'm sure it dips down closer to 11:1 or even below a lil bit.
head/head work also effects there
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