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What happened to Honda?

 
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:11 PM
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What happened to Honda?

NSX?
CRX?
Del Sol?
Integra?
CTR?
S2000?
Accord Type R?
RSX?
And the almighty Prelude?

What the hell happened to Honda?

The almighty CRX was the first to bite the dust.

You can probably chronologically fit the deaths from there.

I mean YES, they are bringing out a new NSX. However, wouldn't it be more sensible to bring back a sporty compact rather than a 100k+ supercar that most people can't afford? I would MUCH rather see a new Prelude or Integra rather than a new NSX.

Is it just Honda's response to the mass market? Or is it that they have lost touch with their hardcore fanbase, many of which have moved on or are stuck in the past?

It saddens me to go outside, look at my Prelude, and think of how much things have changed for the worst at Honda, a company who for years appealed to so many people and became a technological leader in ways that set the standard for all of the cars produced today.

Soichiro would not be pleased!!!

Sorry, just HAD to get this off my chest and share my thoughts with a Honda loving community.

Any thoughts welcome.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:29 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

I would say it's not just Honda but all manufacturers. With the requirement of more and more safety equipment and systems that drive the car for you. I'll personally never buy a car made since the early 20xx. They just aren't that great of cars. A car can be fast and corner well, but not be great...
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:38 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

been thinking of honda's more recent cars and...

I do like the 06-11 Civic Si sedans, the CSX Type S in particular that only Canada got...which is exact same as Civic but different head/tail lights and better interior. I think the old Honda is still there...somewhere...and very faint. Just needs to be tapped into:



Others I like:

-1st gen TSX
-TL Type S
-Accord Crosstour, if its lowered
-Accord Coupe V6, seen some nice ones around where I live. They have grown on me a bit...but why get one of those when you can get a FR-S/BR-Z for cheaper?

lastly the CRZ if they would make a damn Si trim and slap a K20 w/ 6spd in there or something. It is a good looking car, but apart from that doesn't have much going for it right now...


I think Toyota/Honda and a few others are just playing it safe...whereas KIA/Hyundai who have had bad histories are now taking huge steps forward in order to make up for it. They have ex-Audi designers etc. and quality is seemingly on par with BMW/Benz/Audi.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:35 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

honda is not what it used to be anymore, its only faded shadow of its former self

but its like that with other manufacturers also, evo 9 was the last cool car made (I dont count super cars)
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:36 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

having all the good old cars still in production today would be nice!
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:27 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

The formula hasn't changed, it's more work to make it happen. The Fit has a chassis made for performance. You need to make your own k24 SiR or Type R if you get a RSX motor, a awd Civic if you use a Element/crv transmission. Honda is making what will sell. As usual, we the owners have to make our cars scream. Safety became a concern because people (the masses) aren't paying attention to driving anymore. Food, texts, calls, radios, its a mess.

I wish I could say honda would survive solely on it's sportscar fanbase, but that's unrealistic.

The GOVT has stepped in and made low emission cars the number 1 priority. So don't expect much, although a 3.0 v6 Fit would be nuts.
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Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.

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Old 09-20-2012, 09:32 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

All big companies like Honda only care about money now and not about their customers.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:39 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

I agree honda and acura are losing it although i do like the look of the newer civics and accord coupes.. the new crz would be pretty cool imo if it actually had a decent engine in it.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:43 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

It does, but its a hybrid
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:44 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

And remember Honda is a Japan based company, and all they far about is size and fuel economy
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:05 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

CRZ fo lyfe
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:29 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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CRZ fo lyfe
maybe that mugen version
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:37 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

As Honda always were; they do things the HONDA way, because no other manufactorer created HONDA such as HONDA themselves. They made their own concepts with pride, already knowing they would get love.

But then again, as stated many times in this thread; it's the movement of car production. I think what bothers OP is this simple fact:

They have become more and more mainstream. The focus on safety and econemy cars has been Honda's prior. #1 since it actually is what the market is asking for.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.. :/
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:36 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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Originally Posted by ChrisMario View Post
As Honda always were; they do things the HONDA way, because no other manufactorer created HONDA such as HONDA themselves. They made their own concepts with pride, already knowing they would get love.

But then again, as stated many times in this thread; it's the movement of car production. I think what bothers OP is this simple fact:

They have become more and more mainstream. The focus on safety and econemy cars has been Honda's prior. #1 since it actually is what the market is asking for.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.. :/
well the people in the market are retards.

honda has always been about safety and economy etc. and as tech has advanced so has safety and everything in cars but they used to combine that with being 'fun', which is why people loved honda. They've stayed the same, but without the fun. e.g. CRZ gets like 37-39mpg, CRX got 40-42mpg so you can even say they went backwards. CRX even has more power, so not sure wtf is up with that.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:33 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

Less weight, no tech, and carburated.

The new stuff the civic si comes with: helical slip differential, abs, the dashboard goodies/gauges, the additional doors, brakes to slow this new piggy down, add it all up, you get a heavy car, yet somehow performs better than other cars its size and is still a good buy. The CRZ is the next prelude: test bed for new technology, not fast enough for tuners, not green enough for hipsters, not cheap enough for misers, and every other honda car does it's job better, Even the fit.

The only option is K20-K24 the thing. The sad part is 5-7 years from now, everyone is gonna miss the CRZ just like we miss our cars, LOL!
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Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:18 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

Thought Id bump this due to recent developments...

2013 Honda Accord Coupe - looks/sounds very promising.

And the new CTR is getting a HONDA factory turbo...but will 97% most likely to only be in EDM/JDM markets as usual. Still, that does raise the hopes of Honda fans up.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:56 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

If you're looking for a performance car than Honda will not satisfy your needs. Any people who buy into the Civic Si or CR-Z are fooling themselves. The competition is overwhelming.

If you're a car enthusiast than it's hard to look outside of the box. Honda is primarily known for their engine technology, reliability, and affordability. The engine technology part is the last thing the general public really cares about.

I haven't read any company reports or followed up on Honda's corporate strategy, but my take on what they're doing is they are exiting the performance category. They're also pretty much giving up on the eco-performance segment, which is what the Civic Si competed in. The competition simply kills Honda in these markets. Honda is focusing on what they do best--build reliable affordable cars for the masses, aka the average consumer.

The NSX is branded under Acura. Yes, we know it's a Honda, but they are separate brands.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:49 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

As much sense as you're trying to make, honda is trying to stay honda, and not share it's name with anybody. They are selling what they know will leave the lot. It's moot to make a sports car only sport car drivers can manage. Yes I want a 250hp turbo civic or crz, but the car is either:
A. Cost 32k
B. Offer no amenities (nav,hids,rims,a/c) to keep costs down
C. Miss the mark because it's still lacking awd, or the sh system.

It's in the only place it belongs, grandma with love for 6 speeds and LeMans racers can appreciate it's package. And if you read carefully the reviews, all the competitors are lacking the exact formula to beat the SI, either by cost or by handling or by reliability.

If Honda wanted to eliminate the sport car segment, they would not offer 2 coupes, the CRZ don't count till it stops being a hybrid.

2013 Accord sport sedan is a damn good package btw. Not bulky, good gas outta 4cyl, and just the right amount of tech. Will need a clutch lock, wheel locks and a factory upgraded alarm, LOL!
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Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:20 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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And the new CTR is getting a HONDA factory turbo...but will 97% most likely to only be in EDM/JDM markets as usual. Still, that does raise the hopes of Honda fans up.
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The NSX is branded under Acura. Yes, we know it's a Honda, but they are separate brands.
and you havent heard of Honda NSX?
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:10 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
As much sense as you're trying to make, honda is trying to stay honda, and not share it's name with anybody. They are selling what they know will leave the lot. It's moot to make a sports car only sport car drivers can manage. Yes I want a 250hp turbo civic or crz, but the car is either:
A. Cost 32k
B. Offer no amenities (nav,hids,rims,a/c) to keep costs down
C. Miss the mark because it's still lacking awd, or the sh system.

It's in the only place it belongs, grandma with love for 6 speeds and LeMans racers can appreciate it's package. And if you read carefully the reviews, all the competitors are lacking the exact formula to beat the SI, either by cost or by handling or by reliability.

If Honda wanted to eliminate the sport car segment, they would not offer 2 coupes, the CRZ don't count till it stops being a hybrid.

2013 Accord sport sedan is a damn good package btw. Not bulky, good gas outta 4cyl, and just the right amount of tech. Will need a clutch lock, wheel locks and a factory upgraded alarm, LOL!
The sports car segment is a niche market. What you just said is the same thing as I said, which is Honda is not targeting that group. Rather, they are selling to the larger market.

The recent history of eliminating the S2000 and watering down the new Civic Si is proof of this trend.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:00 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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If you're looking for a performance car than Honda will not satisfy your needs. Any people who buy into the Civic Si or CR-Z are fooling themselves. The competition is overwhelming.

If you're a car enthusiast than it's hard to look outside of the box. Honda is primarily known for their engine technology, reliability, and affordability. The engine technology part is the last thing the general public really cares about.
There is no competition for the SI. The closest car is the Nissan sentra, and Honda is not afraid of it. GTI is 3-5k more, Mazdaspeed3 same problem. Focus RS or ST is 28k. Even the BRZ and FRS are 26 base model. No Celica platform so Toyota's out, and even though I mentioned those RWD beauties, they are a joint venture to keep costs low, or they would not have been made. Corolla S or Xrs or whatever stinks. And the SI come with or without Nav. Everyone else you have to add amenities.

The Kia turbo's and Hyundai turbos are the only challenge to the price of an SI, but no other thought is put into the car besides a more powerful engine. Suspension is the same, you have to buy the brake kit for stopping power and shell out for suspension tweaks, when the Civic is good already. Coopers are tiny, the Dart has no fanbase (yet) and Chevy is still on the Sonic/Cruze bandwagon, where the provide the turbo platform, but you have to make it scream after the powertrain warranty is done.

Yes you can buy a stang or a camaro for the cost of an SI, but you're not gonna be happy with it for long.

I didn't agree with you when you said Honda was leaving the Performance market, because the V6 accord coupe is plenty sporty. The Tsx has two powerplants, a 200hp K24 engine and the 3.5 v6. Honda will not ever make the mistake of selling a Honda Car that will beat an Acura Car in any department and not charge the consumer for every penny. That goes for the trucks too. And the ILX is a civic SI with leather and all the goodies you want from a "High End" company.

You wanna know who has the sport car Problems? Nissan. Their strategy is based on... Well for a 1200 more you can step into a (enter base model here)

Examples:

Top of the line Versa or base/middlepack Sentra
SER sentra or Base altima
Altima SEV6 or Maxima base or Z touring edition

So on and forth. Works only for nissan, I'll never understand why.

Considering I've driven a heavy car with 90 hp and 170tq, (and seen 80mph) I don't understand what you want honda to produce when they are still making cars that reach 140mph. How is that watered down? You can only go a legal 65mph tops. What kind of fan service slip up are you expecting from these guys when they constantly take business away from every other car company? The rules have changed. People want creature comforts. Minimalists don't run the market. Every car company has a long list of cars to love now discontinued. If you want one of those discontinued cars you can buy them used.

I mean what would you like Honda to produce? Del sol with a B24, no a/c no ps, pull out lexan windows, shaved doors, roof vent, 6-speed transmission and 6 point harness for the weekeknds? Honda never sold that, ever.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:16 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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a 200hp K24 engine
200hp isnt much. and those cars are heavy!
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:37 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

So get the V6, with the included chassis upgrades and suspension tweaks. Problem solved, LOL!

Honda could do a lot of things to make a true sports car, but in the USA, since nobody is making a real 20k Civic Killer, Civic is gonna stay "bloated". And since Honda/Acura is owned by Honda, their strategy is working fine, unlike madza/ford, gm/isuzu/toyota alfa/fiat/daimler/chrysler, toyota/subaru, nissan/renault. Gotta respect them.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:22 AM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
There is no competition for the SI. The closest car is the Nissan sentra, and Honda is not afraid of it. GTI is 3-5k more, Mazdaspeed3 same problem. Focus RS or ST is 28k. Even the BRZ and FRS are 26 base model. No Celica platform so Toyota's out, and even though I mentioned those RWD beauties, they are a joint venture to keep costs low, or they would not have been made. Corolla S or Xrs or whatever stinks. And the SI come with or without Nav. Everyone else you have to add amenities.

The Kia turbo's and Hyundai turbos are the only challenge to the price of an SI, but no other thought is put into the car besides a more powerful engine. Suspension is the same, you have to buy the brake kit for stopping power and shell out for suspension tweaks, when the Civic is good already. Coopers are tiny, the Dart has no fanbase (yet) and Chevy is still on the Sonic/Cruze bandwagon, where the provide the turbo platform, but you have to make it scream after the powertrain warranty is done.

Yes you can buy a stang or a camaro for the cost of an SI, but you're not gonna be happy with it for long.

I didn't agree with you when you said Honda was leaving the Performance market, because the V6 accord coupe is plenty sporty. The Tsx has two powerplants, a 200hp K24 engine and the 3.5 v6. Honda will not ever make the mistake of selling a Honda Car that will beat an Acura Car in any department and not charge the consumer for every penny. That goes for the trucks too. And the ILX is a civic SI with leather and all the goodies you want from a "High End" company.

You wanna know who has the sport car Problems? Nissan. Their strategy is based on... Well for a 1200 more you can step into a (enter base model here)

Examples:

Top of the line Versa or base/middlepack Sentra
SER sentra or Base altima
Altima SEV6 or Maxima base or Z touring edition

So on and forth. Works only for nissan, I'll never understand why.

Considering I've driven a heavy car with 90 hp and 170tq, (and seen 80mph) I don't understand what you want honda to produce when they are still making cars that reach 140mph. How is that watered down? You can only go a legal 65mph tops. What kind of fan service slip up are you expecting from these guys when they constantly take business away from every other car company? The rules have changed. People want creature comforts. Minimalists don't run the market. Every car company has a long list of cars to love now discontinued. If you want one of those discontinued cars you can buy them used.

I mean what would you like Honda to produce? Del sol with a B24, no a/c no ps, pull out lexan windows, shaved doors, roof vent, 6-speed transmission and 6 point harness for the weekeknds? Honda never sold that, ever.

honda has not made a car since 2002. they now make appliances. Every car company does this. however they all have some sort of performance car to justify all the appliances.

ex:
Nissan - GTR
Infiniti - IPL
BMW - m1,m3,m5,m6,m5x,m6x and B3,B5,B7
Lexus - as much of an appliance they are can't deny the IS-F and LF-A
Audi - there S models
Chevy - there SS and corvette models
Ford - all there mustangs
Dodge family - all there SRT models
Hundayi (sp check lol) - Aspec or whatever they call them.
etc...etc...

A civic SI cannot justify the weak line up honda has right now. I have friends that work for honda who are "tuners" like most of us and they don't drive or recommend hondas to anybody lol.

why does that work for nissan you say? well it's the same thing with douche bag bimmer drivers. They go to the dealer and find out how big they want there car. 1 series, 3 series, 5 series, 6 series, 7 series etc... then make a decision that's how dummies shop. then you have the ones a little smarter don't know what to call them; they want to know how much it cost. then you have the ones that on top how much it cost what engine does it have? 2L, 3L, 4.4L etc and what power it makes? Nissan kinda takes that same route. Only not to the degree that bmw does
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:01 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

All in all, Honda is doing what keeps them around, make money. Sure they could build a 300hp V6 that would run with the Mustangs and such, but, personally working at a Ford dealership, I know they do not sell. In the last few months, one or two Mustangs have sold. About 400 Fiestas and Focus's have rolled out in that same time. It's not that Honda can't do it, or doesn't want to, it's that it's not in their best interest to at this time.

Maybe another Fast and Furious type movie will come out soon and spark some more interest in performance and cause a movement away from the creature comfort cars, or a dip in gas prices will remind people what its like to reach that 4,500 rpm mark. Until then, things will keep going in the direction they are now, no matter how badly is pisses off the enthusiasts.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:25 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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All in all, Honda is doing what keeps them around, make money. Sure they could build a 300hp V6 that would run with the Mustangs and such, but, personally working at a Ford dealership, I know they do not sell. In the last few months, one or two Mustangs have sold. About 400 Fiestas and Focus's have rolled out in that same time. It's not that Honda can't do it, or doesn't want to, it's that it's not in their best interest to at this time.

Maybe another Fast and Furious type movie will come out soon and spark some more interest in performance and cause a movement away from the creature comfort cars, or a dip in gas prices will remind people what its like to reach that 4,500 rpm mark. Until then, things will keep going in the direction they are now, no matter how badly is pisses off the enthusiasts.
sparky flagship performance models where never made to make money but to generate brand interest... ofcourse the appliances are going to out sell sport performance vehicles.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:23 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

Ace, we pretty much see eye to eye on the situation, you know this. (Mona remember?lol) But if no other company can offer a reason for Honda to get off it's ass, Civic is not going to undergo any changes. Acura is going to offer the better engines, and people who are crying out for fuel efficiency, will get hondaboxes.

The sad part is no other company has a civic si. The competition is always lacking something.
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Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:30 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

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Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
Ace, we pretty much see eye to eye on the situation, you know this. (Mona remember?lol) But if no other company can offer a reason for Honda to get off it's ass, Civic is not going to undergo any changes. Acura is going to offer the better engines, and people who are crying out for fuel efficiency, will get hondaboxes.

The sad part is no other company has a civic si. The competition is always lacking something.
I know I'm just debating with you... I'm bored as hell today


back on track:

Mazda speed3, VW GTI are in the same class has the civic. If I have to choose from a civic si or gti or ms3 I'm choosing the ms3 all day!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:20 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

Class yes, price, you have to come out of pocket. That's the retarded part. You can score an entry gti by coming up with a little more money. The way you want it... 30k+ even the 1 series is steep! If your cheap as faaak like me, civic si is talking right now, LOL!!!
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SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
Prelude: Because all great stories have one. Just like Honda.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:27 PM
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Re: What happened to Honda?

you really don't have many options with the si. it's kinda as is and fully loaded w/ nav is $27k the gti w/ nav and leather hid etc is $28k

you loose the price war here.

I hate the 1 series but its a fun car to drive. especially with the 1M model (spent a day bmw test driving all the their cars)
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