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Causes of a rich condition?

 
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Old 09-08-2011, 04:23 PM
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Causes of a rich condition?

So my car is running rich as hell. I was wondering what all causes this? I did basic research, but I want answers from people I trust, not mustang forums.

I want to know what can cause a rich condition, how to check it, and how to fix it. I know it seems like a lot, but I'm, running so rich it smokes like crazy and my oil wreaks of fuel. If I don't find this soon, I'm going to spin a bearing due to my petrolfied lubricant.

Thanks guys.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:35 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

If you're getting noticable fuel in the oil, then you're pushing fuel through the injectors at a pretty high rate. I'd look for, in order, 1) an injector problem -- is there one that's leaking or running at full cycle regardless of input, 2) an ECU problem -- the ECU telling one or more injectors to run at full cycle (is it a stock ECU?), or 3) some sort of fuel overpressure that's forcing fuel past the injector.
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:49 AM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

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Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
If you're getting noticable fuel in the oil, then you're pushing fuel through the injectors at a pretty high rate. I'd look for, in order, 1) an injector problem -- is there one that's leaking or running at full cycle regardless of input, 2) an ECU problem -- the ECU telling one or more injectors to run at full cycle (is it a stock ECU?), or 3) some sort of fuel overpressure that's forcing fuel past the injector.
It's a Phearable ECU on a base map tune. Never had this issue before with it. How do I check the injectors?
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:23 AM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

I have the same prblm...hope someone gives a good answer nd a way to fix it:)...i have stock ECU smokr nd fuel on my oil:(
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Old 09-09-2011, 07:59 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

How do I check my fuel pressure regulator? Everything I've read says to use the test port, but my buddy says that's a GM thing. So how do I check mine then? I think it may be seized and causing the rich condition; or at least contributing.
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:33 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

Your buddy's giving you bad info. The test port to plug in a fuel pressure guage is on the fuel rail right next to the pressure regulator, and the shop manual lays out the whole procedure (page 11-122 in my copy) -- basically checking the pressure response with and without the vacuum line attached. The procedures to check the injectors are in the same chapter.
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:38 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

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Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Your buddy's giving you bad info. The test port to plug in a fuel pressure guage is on the fuel rail right next to the pressure regulator, and the shop manual lays out the whole procedure (page 11-122 in my copy) -- basically checking the pressure response with and without the vacuum line attached. The procedures to check the injectors are in the same chapter.
Okay then, how do I check the injectors? Just do resistance check and assume they're fine if the resistance comes back in spec? Also, when I'm checking the regulator, if it's seized, should I see higher or lower pressure?

Would it hurt to leave a fuel pressure gauge in the test port for ****s and giggles?
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:36 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

I thought there was a flow chart somewhere in the fuel system section to check the injector duty cycle. As far as the regulator, what you're looking for is the response described when you have vacuum or not -- I think the pressure is supposed to go up, but I'd have to look again to be sure. I'll pull the book down tomorrow...spent the day dodging cones, and after all day in the sun and rain, I'm not inclined to go out in the garage right now! :)
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:19 AM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

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Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
I thought there was a flow chart somewhere in the fuel system section to check the injector duty cycle. As far as the regulator, what you're looking for is the response described when you have vacuum or not -- I think the pressure is supposed to go up, but I'd have to look again to be sure. I'll pull the book down tomorrow...spent the day dodging cones, and after all day in the sun and rain, I'm not inclined to go out in the garage right now! :)
Sounds like a blast. I appreciate the help anyways man. I've just never diagnosed a fuel delivery problem, so it's like being tossed in biomedical when I'm clearly a mechanical engineering student, lol. AKA, up ****s creek.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:54 AM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

lol. Don't feel bad, my Prelude has the worst hard start issue I've ever seen, and I guarantee it's fuel related.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:19 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

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Originally Posted by Phantom240 View Post
lol. Don't feel bad, my Prelude has the worst hard start issue I've ever seen, and I guarantee it's fuel related.
It starts great and even runs amazingly. It just smokes like a crack addict and shudders on idle with a slight misfire.

It's MUCH worse when it's cold. I wish someone could help :/
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:23 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

Have you checked to see if you have a leaking injector or injector o-ring?
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:34 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

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Originally Posted by Phantom240 View Post
Have you checked to see if you have a leaking injector or injector o-ring?
No, I haven't had a chance. It's been nasty out and I have to work in the mud :( so do I just check the resistance between the injector prongs and I should see 1.5 - 2.5 ohms? My stepdad things its the fuel pressure regulator. I'm so lost.
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:48 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

Read the fuel pressure with the car running, and then shut it off. You should hold a decent amount of pressure with the car off. If it bleeds down, then you're leaking fuel somewhere... either externally or through a bad check valve on the fuel pump, a faulty regulator, or through the injector itself.
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:56 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

I don't have a fuel pressure gauge though?

EDIT: I just checked my injectors and they read 2.5 ohms across the board.
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Old 09-11-2011, 07:21 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

Did you check the injector resistor, up on the firewall? That controls response time. Should read 5-7 ohms.

According to the book, the fuel pressure should be 36-43 psi with the vacuum disconnected and pinched off. Once reconnected, then again removed, the pressure should rise. If it doesn't the regulator is bad.

Should be able to find a pressure guage at a Sears or an auto parts store -- probably $30-50.
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Old 09-11-2011, 07:42 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Did you check the injector resistor, up on the firewall? That controls response time. Should read 5-7 ohms.

According to the book, the fuel pressure should be 36-43 psi with the vacuum disconnected and pinched off. Once reconnected, then again removed, the pressure should rise. If it doesn't the regulator is bad.

Should be able to find a pressure guage at a Sears or an auto parts store -- probably $30-50.
Injector resistor? I have no idea where that's even at.

So is it okay to just leave a fuel pressure gauge hooked up? It's something I'd like to monitor anyways. I've seen a few where you splice the fuel line and the line hooks into it with a gauge on top. Seem permanent to me.

Something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA...#ht_5503wt_939

It also says to replace all washers in the service manual, but I don't have time or money to order more. Does it matter if I reuse the old ones?

I also went and got an O ring kit for my injector seals. I want to eliminate every possible contributor.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:45 PM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

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Originally Posted by RandallSharp View Post
Injector resistor? I have no idea where that's even at.
It's all in the shop manual, including pictures....

Quote:
So is it okay to just leave a fuel pressure gauge hooked up? It's something I'd like to monitor anyways. I've seen a few where you splice the fuel line and the line hooks into it with a gauge on top. Seem permanent to me.
So long as you trust the guage to stay together, and it's stay mounted to the rail. The last thing you want is a guage to start spraying high pressure fuel all over the engine!

Quote:
It also says to replace all washers in the service manual, but I don't have time or money to order more. Does it matter if I reuse the old ones?
Depends. If they're rubber or plastic, don't reuse them -- there's too much of chance they're damaged or worn and will leak. If they're aluminum crush washers (as used for the oil drain plug), it's a risk, because you may not get as good a seal when you retighten them. If they're just regular steel washers, it's probably OK -- those are just designed to spread the load off the bolt head, and provide a good, smooth friction surface for the bolt head to tighten against.
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Old 09-13-2011, 01:08 AM
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Re: Causes of a rich condition?

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Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
It's all in the shop manual, including pictures....


So long as you trust the guage to stay together, and it's stay mounted to the rail. The last thing you want is a guage to start spraying high pressure fuel all over the engine!


Depends. If they're rubber or plastic, don't reuse them -- there's too much of chance they're damaged or worn and will leak. If they're aluminum crush washers (as used for the oil drain plug), it's a risk, because you may not get as good a seal when you retighten them. If they're just regular steel washers, it's probably OK -- those are just designed to spread the load off the bolt head, and provide a good, smooth friction surface for the bolt head to tighten against.
I think my piston rings are fried.
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