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Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

 
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:58 AM
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Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Alright, well as many of you know from my previous threads, my car is pretty slow, and I can't figure out why. After reading up on how a fuel pressure regulator could fix the problem, I think I might have a hypothesis for why its so slow. Of course this is pretty much just speculation, but here goes.

The car has a custom chip. This I know. Supposedly it raises the rev limiter (true) and extends injection dwell and advances overall ignition timing. Now I'm not really sure what that does, but my guess is it dumps in more fuel. However, nothing was said about actually improving the flow of fuel to the engine, so maybe its trying to dump more fuel in but not enough is being provided cuz there isn't an adjustable fuel pressure regulator or higher flow fuel pump on the car. Also my fuel filter prolly needs to be changed.

What do you guys think about my theory?

Cuz it beats the crap outta me. I'm going to pick up a new fuel pressure reg today, or at least order one.



Anywho...I'm going to paste the ad posted by the original owner for your viewing pleasure, and I'll stick my own notes in there in red, pretaining to what I think is bull**** and what I think is true.

2001 PreludeType SH, Just built and never registered since all mods performed. This car was professionally prepared to be quick and reliable. Recently swapped a JDM H22 engine(prolly bull, its got a h22a4 in it.),and close ratio transmission. Before installing engine the block was completely disassembled and prepped with fresh (Block, torque-plate cylinder honing, new Honda rings and bearings. three angle, race valve prep of cylinder head, mild porting and a 10 thousanths flycut of head deck which raised compression to: 10.5:1 (the other ad says 11:1) Installed H22 type "S" cams, valve springs and new composite timing belt, manual timing belt tensioner, Honda water pump and composite balance shaft belt. All new gaskets and seals throughout the engine. (didn't stop the main seal from going soon after I bought it) High volume oil pump
New stainless, large tube race header and header pipe, routed to 2.125 inch exhaust. The exhaust is throaty and very responsive.
New stage III 3,500 pound pressure plate, ceramic, metallic six puck clutch disc and 9 pound ultra light chromolly flywheel By ACT clutch Co.
New type "S" injectors, ECU is OBD2 with custom chip. Raises rev limit to: 8,500 rpm (this is true), extends injection dwell and and advances total ignition timing. AEM cold air intake.(not on there now, SRI currently installed)The vtec engagement is very strong!!!
New Rota slipstream gunmetal 17" rims with 205-40-17 tires. (All brand new.) (and fake, evidently)
This prelude was not owned or built by a kid. All work was done to an original, stock Prelude SH with a clean title. This car is very quick and clean (except of course for the imperfect bodywork on the accident damage in front, the hood is a slightly lighter silver and none of the front bodylines are straight or tight)
serious inquiries only. All factory equipment and options, everything works perfect. "0" miles since this car was professionally built.



Since all this work was supposedly done to the car, some other kid owned the car. And supposedly beat on it. So I dunno if the builder is bull****ting, or didn't build it right, or if the kid just beat the hell out of it. By the way, I hate posting the ad. It reminds me of how gullible I was when I bought the car. Not to mention I overpaid for it too...

Anyway, feel free to post why you think my car lost its balls. I'm at a loss. Gonna go pick up a new fuel pressure reg at advanced today (if they even have one, and if they don't mess up) then stick it on then see if it helps. If it does, I'll compression test the engine this weekend to see what the condition of the engine actually is.




By the way, does anyone know where the 5th gen fuel pressure reg is and how to take it off/put it on and how to tune an adjustable one? I searched and got nothing.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:27 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

And I might as well include this stuff....

My dad thinks I'm nuts for even worrying about power, but the engine doesn't pull like it's supposed to. It was slower than my buddies stock lude even when it supposedly has all this stuff done to it, and now that my buddy did a jdm h22a swap, forget about it. My car accelerates sure, but it does it slowly, it gets going pretty fast, but it doesn't actually "pull." The vtec hits hard, but thats really all its got going for it.

Also the other problem is that it leaks oil. I had the rear main along with a lot of other seals replaced when the rear main went, but its still leaking. It leaked right after we got it back from the shop. Of course even before that was done the pcv valve was shot, and after I got it back from the shop I took it on a ten hour drive in which I overreacted to the leaking and checked the oil wrong, which made me overfill the oil and I noticed bubbles on the dipstick from it. So that prolly made my rear main weak again. After that I replaced the pcv valve and properly changed and filled the oil, and it really doesn't leak much anymore.

Also the car makes no abnormal noises other than the cat rattling (bought a test pipe to replace it) and the belts are kinda loud, which I think is because they're too tight. They don't really squeal or anything, they're just loud.

Also, my passenger side strut rod is bent, which I know affects my handling, but could it have any bearing on putting power to the pavement? Also, my cat is broken, some of the catalyst broke off inside and it rattles. I don't think its clogged, it doesnt throw a CEL, but could that be reducing my power?


Also I can't compression test the engine, I don't have a tester, my buddy has one but he flaked on me last weekend. And with the timeframe I got going, if I don't figure this out by this weekend, I'm going to have to order the new engine, otherwise I won't have time to do the swap. So if the new fuel reg helps, I'll compression test it to see if the engine is worth saving, see if my mechanic will warranty the rear main work still and get the leak fixed, the replace the strut rod, put on my CAI and replace my cat and see if it gets any more powah.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:07 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Soo.... I just took my spark plugs out and gave them a look-see. I figured I would share.


As you can see, they're mad white, and in pretty bad condition. From what I understand this means the engine is running too lean, which supports my not enough fuel theory. Now would this be from an insufficient fuel supply or because the timing is advanced? Or both? Other than new spark plugs, what would you guys suggest I do next?
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You're such a whiny little douche sometimes, but posts like these make me love you.

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Old 06-01-2010, 10:06 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

A chipped ECU doesn't mean **** unless it's tuned. And who the **** even knows what this chip is or who it was made by. I would replace the plugs and get a stock ECU and see where that gets you for now. Maybe after this motor was "built," the jackass who bought it wasn't patient enough to break it in. Who knows man, that whole ad is sketchy as hell. But if I were you, I would definitely replace the plugs and try a stock ECU first and foremost.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:58 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

I would say if your having troubles with any Mods that where put on before you got the car, the first step would be to focus on replacing those with new or stock parts to get it back to what you know.

I'm not a mechanic, I've learned more with the little bit on time I've been on these forums than I've ever known, so don't take this as a professional opinion, thats just the first step I would take.
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Old 06-01-2010, 11:11 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

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Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
A chipped ECU doesn't mean **** unless it's tuned. And who the **** even knows what this chip is or who it was made by. I would replace the plugs and get a stock ECU and see where that gets you for now. Maybe after this motor was "built," the jackass who bought it wasn't patient enough to break it in. Who knows man, that whole ad is sketchy as hell. But if I were you, I would definitely replace the plugs and try a stock ECU first and foremost.
i definately agree with this. got a stock ecu, or a legit tuneable one and get it tuned by a reputable tuner. those "chips" off ebay do a lot more harm than good, which is probably what he put in. i doubt he even basically rebuilt the engine, if seals went right after you bought it
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Old 06-01-2010, 11:20 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Quote:
Supposedly it raises the rev limiter (true) and extends injection dwell
Just caught this...and injector dwell is when the injector is closed, not open...At least I'm pretty sure. Soooo therein may lie the problem. Like I said, substitute a stock ECU and see how that goes broseph.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:33 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Ok, so what ECU do I need? P13? P28?

Where would I get one that would be garanteed to be stock and not screwed with?
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:45 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

A stock P13 is what you would need. That's what came in the car from the factory. However, if you're patient, you can get a P28 or P72 chipped with Crome/eCtune/Neptue/etc and get it tuned.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:11 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

I really doubt I have the time or money to get it tuned, neither do I even know what that would entail.

Anyway, how much damage could have been done to the engine from running lean so long?

Also, the builder of the car got it from the original owner, then sold it to a kid who sold it to me. The builder told me the kid beat the hell out of it, redlining it before it was even broken in. How much damage could have been done to the engine because of that?

Tommorow I'll ask my friend to loan me his compression tester, so by thursday I should be able to post compression numbers.

I'm more or less trying to decide if I should screw around trying to fix this engine and all its problems, such as its shady history, lack of power and oil leak, or if I should just call up HMO and order a h22a with trans and ecu. My buddy says I should try to fix it, and buying a new engine would be a waste of money. The problem is, I have til the end of the month to do this swap if I have to, and I need all the money I can get to do it. So if I screw around wasting time and money trying to fix it and it doesn't work, I prolly won't have the time or money to do a swap if that's what it needs.

So its a ****ty situation all around...
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:57 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Yeah I know this is turning into another one of my "what to do, what to do" threads but ****, am I the only one who thinks it would be a good idea just to start from a clean slate and swap the engine?

Everyone says don't waste your money and just fix the engine, but what if trying to fix it is a waste of money?

EDIT: Just thought of something. How hard are is it to swap an ECU? Because my buddy (has a 5th gen lude too, its a 98 base) already suggested swapping my fuel pressure reg for his to see if the car pulled better with it, so what if I compression tested the engine, then swapped my fuel pressure reg and ecu for his? I could see how the car reacted to a stock ecu and known good fuel reg. Basically killing two birds with one stone. Good idea???
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:39 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Yeah. You basically unplug the old one and plug the new one in. There's a couple bolts holding it in. That's about it. I'm pretty sure a retard could do it. lol Swap the ECU's and see if that helps. If it does, do a compression and leakdown test and tell us how it looks.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:45 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Well I'll do the compression and swap the ecu then the fuel pressure reg, I dunno if I'll be able to do a leakdown.

If it throws up bad compression numbers and/or the ecu/fuel pres reg doesn't help, then I guess I'll have to order the engine. I have about 2100 in the bank right now, and a couple more paychecks coming so I'll prolly have enough to do the swap if I need to. Of course that pretty much kills the possibility of getting my exhaust and whatnot, but that can wait. Powerplant comes first.
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:28 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Ok, I got compression numbers for you guys. I followed towkexlcoupe (sorry for spelling) guide to compression testing, pretty much.

Anyway, COLD numbers. These go from drivers side to passenger side, since I don't know the cylinder numbers offhand.

COLD: 225, 210, 215, 225
HOT: 240, 225, 230, 237

That last one was in between 235 and 240 so I'm calling it 237.

Anyway I can tell there is a difference in the compression between cylinders, and know you want them within 5% of each other (10% max) but hell if I know percents.

Anyway my engine is a usdm H22a4, supposedly ported and milled and whatnot so the compression is 10.5:1 or 11:1, the seller couldn't make up his mind I suppose. So are these healthy numbers???

Also, I noticed there are alot of metal shavings inside the valve cover groove, around the plug boots. Not inside the cylinder, just chillin on top of it. What could that be from???
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:44 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

those compression results are more than fine, don't worry.


pics of these metal shavings? i wouldn't worry about these either since it prolly isn't anything detrimental, but i'm just curious what they look like.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:45 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

They look long and skinny, like the metal shavings from a lathe. The builder did say it was ported and honed, but why wasn't it hot tanked after?

And I tried to get a pic but my cell phone couldn't really capture any detail. When the lighting is better I'll take a pic.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:34 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

So...even though the compression is good, should I even bother to fix it? Its got metal shavings sitting around the spark plug boots, its been running excessively lean for prolly 2 years, someone supposedly beat the crap out of the engine before it was broken in, and its leaking motor oil.

Even though ther compression is good, I'm still worried about the reliability of the engine. Plus I would like a solid engine with a bit more power to start to build off of, maybe turbo in the distant future. However pretty much everyone tells me to save my money, but what the hell am I going to save it for? My car is everything to me, and it bugs me knowing the powerplant in it could very well be substandard.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:51 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Then swap in another H and part out your current one. That's what I would do.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:01 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Yeah I'm thinking about buying a h22a from hmotorsonline that comes with tranny and ecu and swap it in. Of course everyone tells me it'd be a waste of money and to try and fix my motor, but the one kid that told me that did a h22a swap and is happy with it and the other is in the process of doing a chevy 350 swap in his 79 T/A. I understand its alot of money and work, but if the end results are good, its worth it right?

Besides, how the hell am I supposed to know how long this engine is gonna hold up, and it might take more money and time to fix than a swap, and I don't wanna open a can of worms. Plus the h22a4's have less power and seem to be more prone to problems (see the car hesitant thread in 5th gen).

It may be a waste of money, it may not. But I think I'll be happier in the end with the swap, and the things gotta last me at least another 5 years.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:04 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

Quote:
Plus the h22a4's have less power and seem to be more prone to problems (see the car hesitant thread in 5th gen).
H22A4's actually make a more power than the H22A1. Unless you're talking about getting an H22A.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:14 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

JDM H22a
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2010, 11:27 AM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

It's redundant to say "JDM" and "H22a."
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:55 PM
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Re: Wanna diagnose my 5th gen?

makin sure i got the point across lol
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