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Dealership scams to Watch out for

 
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:57 PM
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Dealership scams to Watch out for

Are you thinking of buying a car but hesitant to approach your local car dealer because you are not sure about the processes of buying a car as well as wary of possible dealership scams? Do you feel that your knowledge about cars and getting great deals is not good enough and you want to learn more about this matter? Then reading these tips will enhance your understanding about dealership scams.


The car dealer and his trade
To have a proper understanding of car dealership scams, you must first have an idea of the car dealers themselves and how they go about their trade selling cars. First of all, the car dealer will not give you a price quotation as much as he possibly can. This is because the tendency of the buyer would be to go to another dealer and the other one will probably offer a lower price thus, the first dealer loses the buyer to the second dealer. To increase their chances of getting you to buy their car, they will try to make you commit to them before they give you the final selling price. On your part, you can do two things: maneuver the dealer into telling you the price quotation or negotiate the terms of the deal with them. If you decided to negotiate with the dealer then be always on the lookout for the following tricks:


Low balling
This is one of the tricks most commonly done by dealers. They will try to convince the buyer that they can provide the lowest possible price for the car thereby prompting the buyer to start negotiations with the dealer. The salesman will probably tell you that you can get the car that you want for a lesser amount but when you are about to enter negotiations, it turns out that you were not promised a lower price after all. It is just an empty promise.


Best price matching
When you tell the dealer that you will try to look around and check other car dealerships, the salesman will ask you to comeback when you get the best possible price and he will offer to match it. By this time, you will probably be too tired and sick of looking around. Chances are that you will take their offer.


Trade in scam
When you have already bought the car, the salesman will try to contact you before your new car is delivered and tell you that the initial pricing of the car was $500 lower and would like to collect the balance from you. If you fall for this, he will get an extra $500 at your expense.


Spraying
What the dealer will do is to pursue you relentlessly until you give up and buy the car. On the other hand, if you decided to buy from another dealer, he will call you and tell you that he could have given you a lower price thus making you upset. To avoid this, you should not hand out your contact number. Some even give wrong contact numbers just to evade very irritating car dealers.


Puppy dog trick
The dealer will allow you to take the car for an overnight or for a whole day, his aim is for you to fall for the car and buy it.


Immediate sale
The dealer will give you a very attractive price but he will also make you believe that this deal can only be made until the end of the day. This will cause you to think too much and in the end, make the mistake of buying the car without checking what other car dealers have to offer.

Extra accessories
The dealer will offer to give you extras like: car mats, window tinting, and other accessories. This aims to stop you from asking for a lower price because of the perceived "extras" that you will be receiving from the dealer. It will slow down the price negotiations and divert your attention away from the price.


All of us want the best deal available and we abhor the notion that someone will take advantage of us through modis operandi like car dealership scams. So before going to the local car dealer, you better have a good idea of what he will be talking about. As they say, only a fool will go to battle unprepared and with no weapons. Your weapon will be knowledge, always remember that!
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:31 PM
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I hate to admit it, but I first checked the library for a book called"Buying a Car for Dummies" by Deanna Sclar. Then I bought it. I would suggest getting your hands on one, bacause it goes through everything they do at dealerships. Great tips and a great story.
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:46 AM
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My strategy is:
1. Ride by, find a car I'm interested in. Let's say I found an FD.
2. So I pull up in my junky Accord so they won't even take me serious, but go look at another car instead, maybe a 5th gen Prelude.
3. I get to talking, act like I don't want to pay their price for the Prelude so go over the the FD and ask what they want for it and ask to drive it.
4. After all the jibber jabber, of acting not very interested, give them a price and if they don't meet it, tell them to call me when they want to meet it.

My dad taught me this one. There was a Solara he wanted to buyt but they wanted way too much so 2 months later, after still not selling it, they called and wanted to talk with him again about his price but by then, he had already bought something else. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it keeps them off guard and not knowing what to expect.
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Old 12-07-2006, 01:04 AM
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That is a really good idea! I will have to try that sometime.
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Old 01-02-2007, 07:48 PM
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Great writeup.

Reminds me of 2 weeks when I went in to the Dealer to ask about a 03' Yellow IS300 they had sitting on there lot for about 3months. It had just under 50k on it. He wanted over 25k and would not budge. I kept trying to get him down but he pulled out a old "car Seller trick". He said it's already discounted. If I discount it anymore I'd be losing money. Well I told him how much I know they go for and that there already loosing money by having it on there lot for 3 months now. Then he tried another trick. He said well why don't you get that Miata over there. It's ALOT cheaper. I said if I wanted a two seatter I'd buy another 4th gen - haha. So I said call me when you can do better. He said wait. Then went to talk to his boss (really this is when they just go take a piss or something - haha). He came back and said I can give it to you out the door for $22,600. I said no that's still to much. I'm just going to go to the Toyota dealer directly and see what they have. He said wait wait. haha. Then I was watching him type in numbers. I seen $19,700 with payments being $412.31 a month, then all of a sudden I seen $21,850 with payments being $460 something. He said $21,850 is the lowest I can go. I said I seen $19,700 and he said that was a typo. So I got up and said when you want to make a deal with me and not try to just low ball me so you can make more money off the deal then give me a call. And has I was walking away I heard sir, sir wait.... I just keep walking. Funny thing tho is it's still sitting there for sale...

yea you gotta hate em. There just out to make more money off you.....


again good write up!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-03-2007, 12:56 AM
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I would not want to be a car salesman..I don't know how they sleep at night! (I'm sure there are moral car sales men out there just not too many)

Glad to see you didn't get suckered at 25k! Next time ask him to get on both knees and kiss your feet... When he's doing this be sure to take a picture of it and post it here lol.
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Old 01-03-2007, 02:29 PM
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I would not want to be a car salesman..I don't know how they sleep at night! (I'm sure there are moral car sales men out there just not too many)

Glad to see you didn't get suckered at 25k! Next time ask him to get on both knees and kiss your feet... When he's doing this be sure to take a picture of it and post it here lol.

LMAO Yea that would be funny has hell hahah

Yea 25k is insane. Especially since you can buy boosted IS's for cheaper. Anyhow like I said good post. I'm sure some people will get good use out of this thread... And if I ever get the "MAN" on his kness, I'll snap a pic just for you
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Old 01-08-2007, 08:30 PM
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My mom wound up getting her Accord for 21,700, drive off. They weren't wanting to go below 22,200. They said if they went below 21,900, they'd lose money. That's just the price they REALLY don't wanna go under cause they know/think someone else will pay at least that much. After some wheeling, dealing, slick talk, my dad got them down to the 21,700 and they still wouldn't admit they weren't losing money. They probably get those cars for what, 16K? Maybe less.They didn't lose a dime on the deal but the salesman was very courteous and was working with us, it was the guy above him who makes the final decision who was kind've not wanting to move off the price. They moral of this story, don't put with their bull****. Find a salesman you like, who treats you as a person and not just another unit. Stick with them as long as you're being treated fairly and usually, when you come back for them again, they'll work that much harder for you. Our salesman took his boss in the back, I dunno what they talked about but when he came back out, he said "You beat me." and so we got the car.
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:59 AM
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Good for your Rents man
Yea I also love when there like ah lets pull up your credit ok. haha. They do that to see if they can low ball you too b/c they think when your credit isn't that good that you need to get a co-signer or kinda go by there guidelines.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:26 PM
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Well it counts against your credit everytime they pull it up. I think it's like 2 points off or something like that so be sure not to give them much info if you're not seriously serious about buying the car.
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Old 03-13-2007, 11:35 PM
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This is so true...

My friend just bought a brand new 4 door 2007 Civic Si but not after 2 weeks of back and forth between three Honda dealorships.

The first offered the car at sticker with an average interest rate and blue book trade in on his old car.

The second offered the car at sticker but would give $2,000 more on the trade in but an interest rate that was 3% higher.

The third offered the car $3,000 under sticker, blue book trade in, and a lower interest rate, but when he went to close the deal he noticed that they added a $3,000 extended warranty package which they told him he could not remove.

In the end he went back to the first dealorship explained his findings with some extra bs of course, and got the car for the $3,000 less than sticker and an even lower interest rate than the third dealorship with the blue book value trade in.

Bottom line shop around, the myth about all factory dealorships having to use the same pricing is bs. They also claim that they have no control over the interest rate, but apparently that bs as well. I heard its also good to examine the marker board with the current day/week sale numbers becuase if they are low expect some nice savings.
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:41 PM
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good thread
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:57 AM
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interesting. I bought my prelude 2 days ago, after visiting a dealership. I test drove an 06 sentra that they wanted 10K, said they could do 9K as i was walking around. I'd much rather have my 98 prelude i got for 5600 from auto trader.
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:41 AM
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I recommend doing continuous research for at least a month prior to buying. I have been researching the "art of car buying" for a very long time now and they really do have it down to a science. Remember, the ONLY thing these people do is sell cars. EVERYDAY. That's all. Just research their methods as if you were learning to sell cars yourself.

I recommend the following for EVERYONE:

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/scams.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/index.html --> TMV is a great tool
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/military.htm (It's always black and white with military)
http://nada.com/
http://www.kbb.com/

ALSO, DO YOUR FINANCIAL CALCULATIONS BEFORE STEPPING FOOT INTO ANY DEALER. YOU WILL SPEND MORE TIME DISCUSSING THE TRANSACTION AND MONEY THAN ANYTHING ELSE. COULD BE MANY HOURS! YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO/SAY BEFORE THEY ACTUALLY DO. FOCUS THE LEAST ON ALL THE "SPECS." FINALLY, DO NOT BUY A CAR BASED ON MONTHLY PAYMENTS (Dealers will try this one!). MONTHLY PAYMENTS WILL CALCULATE THEMSELVES B/C ALL 4 (MAYBE 5 IF TRADING-IN) FACTORS FOR FINANCING ARE A DIRECT CORRELATION OF EACH OTHER. IF ONE VALUE GOES DOWN, ANOTHER IS GOING UP. In fact, try to avoid trade-ins and financing through the dealer AT ALL COSTS!!! And uh, have fun. After all, it's a game for them. Play along with em!
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:05 AM
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haha i dont think i will ever buy a car from a car dealership unless it is brand new and even then i would probally order it and tell them that it better not have over 2 miles on it when i get in it, i work at a car dealership and i see the scams everyday, the best knowledge comes from the inside, i got my buddy a used truck from our lot for only 1200 over what they traded it in for, which means that the salesman only make like 50$ on the deal and he still doesn't talk to me for that but **** happens, but i've seen people get screwed over big time... we had a 00 Ford Lightning on the lot that had 120k on it, the dealership gave 11,000$ on the trade which means i could have gotten it for around 11,700$ and this young guy came in and the sales man started off by telling him that the lowest he could go on it was 20k so after all the bull **** the guy lended up getting it for 17K witch made him think that he got a great deal on it which in the end he got raped straight up the ass by a broom stick no never mind more like a flag pole!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bc2_bb6 View Post
This is so true...

My friend just bought a brand new 4 door 2007 Civic Si but not after 2 weeks of back and forth between three Honda dealorships.

The first offered the car at sticker with an average interest rate and blue book trade in on his old car.

The second offered the car at sticker but would give $2,000 more on the trade in but an interest rate that was 3% higher.

The third offered the car $3,000 under sticker, blue book trade in, and a lower interest rate, but when he went to close the deal he noticed that they added a $3,000 extended warranty package which they told him he could not remove.
In the end he went back to the first dealorship explained his findings with some extra bs of course, and got the car for the $3,000 less than sticker and an even lower interest rate than the third dealorship with the blue book value trade in.

Bottom line shop around, the myth about all factory dealorships having to use the same pricing is bs. They also claim that they have no control over the interest rate, but apparently that bs as well. I heard its also good to examine the marker board with the current day/week sale numbers becuase if they are low expect some nice savings.


If they say they "can't remove" the warranty, $600 Prep fee, or anything else that seems fishy, that maybe true. once it is on there, often times they actually cannot remove it. SOLUTION: request they add a credit for the same amount. They can ALWAYS add stuff. You do not need to pay for these. However, DISREGARD tax, dmv charges, and destination fee. they are legit and must be paid.

Also - Say the car you are looking at is MSRP 24,999. They offer you the great deal of 23,796 as if they were doing some magic calculation to get that exact number. WRONG. salesman are trained to offer "odd" numbers so it looks more precise. They are in fact picking random numbers. They already know what the car can go for.
TIP: most salesmen's commisions are based on 3 tiers of "price windows". If he is being stubborn and then randomly seems to accept; you probably broke a tier level and he has decided to accept. This means GO LOWER. You may still have wiggle room in this new tier and he personally will still make the same amount of profit regardless.
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:08 AM
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lmao 91Si. good times for him!
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I try not to hang around people that seem like that, because lets face it you can tell by Oreilys flame decals on their cars from a mile away
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:17 AM
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seriously though some people are stupid, why buy a used car from a car dealership where they know the dealership has to make money in some way shape or form, when they can just open up a friggin auto trader and find the same car for much less and you can find out about the kind of person who had it before you
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:25 AM
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dont go straight to the car you are looking at. if they know ur really interested they jump up the price and irritate you to no end
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:30 AM
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Yea, I live in a military AND tourist town. by the beach. that's all we have around here is dealerships with crappy selections. But boy do they make some money. stupid people.
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:54 AM
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Hi, this post is very informative; however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:09 AM
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I remember driving up to an Import dealership to look at a sweet Lotus. Well I saw a 5th gen Prelude and drove around to it and asked one of the sellers how much they were selling it for. He said he didn't know because they just got it in and he wanted to get me in the dealership to look up some prices. I said no thanks and drove back up to the Lotus and an old 80's Ferrari. When the seller went back in I wandered over to the Lude and got a good laugh. They were trying to sell it for over 14k, and it was auto. I laughed and drove off.
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:32 PM
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I am a sales consultant at a dealership.

It comes down to numbers, I could not care less what I sell a car for, I make my money on the financing. Slick talk will not get you anywhere with a salesmen, although, we do humor people a lot but again it comes down to a certain number, simple as that. You can never make money on us, or get a good deal unless you buy an "as is" trade in- the way I aquired my prelude with 58k on the clock for $3,200. If we don't make money we won't sell you the car, if we do not make over 1000 dollars on the car it isnt worth out time to sell you the car, we could just wholesale it to another dealer if the car doesnt sell.

I will sell a car as cheaply as I can, so long as I can get the person financed- this is where I make my money- since an ABSURD amount of people do not understand financial obligations and in turn end up with bad credit, they are happy to be financed. So lets say I "buy them" from Americredit at 8% apr, I can then in turn finance them at 11% apr and hold 3 points to myself.

If you have good credit, I am honest, straight forward you pay what you see and since you know what rate you can get I can't hold points, which makes you my easiest deal, but also lowest paying- so you are doing the best you can, and in turn have no negotiation room- also we appreciate good credit customers because they give less hassle, are familiar with the process and are overall more educated about buying and save me a lot of time and talking. Also- we can finance you low, you tell your friends, and they come in- so I will probably get another deal out of it too.

If you have bad credit though, I will **** you in the ass and you will thank me for it since you couldn't get financed anywhere else. Guaranteed credit approval ftmfw.

Comission is a small amount of what I make, I only pull in 15% of the markup, typically around 150-200 bucks per car.

Also- KBB is overrated, use edmunds. We sell cars below KBB and are still having 2k markups- and are cheaper than 90% of other dealers.

We buy SRT4s wholesale for 8900- sell them for $13,660 (we usually put tires on and inspect them, tune up etc. so we own the car for 9900ish)- but other dealers I have seen them out front for almost 16k- that is one of the most over marked up cars there are.

Basically, if you are going to buy a car- check the trade in value of it, that is what the dealer usually owns it for, give or take 1000. It gives you a good idea of what you should be paying.

Any questions I will answer freely and honestly, since you don't know where I work, and my boss wouldn't check this. lol. So I hope...
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:46 PM
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I know how this works...Most dealership with price their car at a higher price then what its worth..because they know that their customers like to talk down the price to the lowest posible. I bought my 2000 lude at 11 grand..with 90k...(the lowest price the dealer can go to) the dealer's price was quote at 13k. KBB retail the lude at 10k. So i thought i got rip off since i didnt do a good research before buy that lude. 5 weeks later..i found the same lude (same year, color but with lower miles for 10k)..now that really pist me off. Also Interest rate also is a factor when buying a car. The higher price the car retail at the lower the interest (this depend on your credit history also). So for example if i would to but a car at 15k..the best interest rate ill get is 7.9% interest. For a 11k car i pay 10.2%. So whatever route you go..they will still make the same interest (amount of money) off of you.
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Old 09-29-2007, 05:11 PM
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interest is the killer my cousin bought an 07 civic si he got em down to 19,900 and after interest he will end up paying almost 29k. If you have bad credit like he did dont buy from a dealer its not worth it. i never even step foot in a dealership they make me sick.
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:11 AM
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uhlig is right on the money, I actually got the dealership i bought my lude from to drop 3,000 off the price and bump my trade in up $2500 just so they could get the financing. I prefer to buy my cars from dealerships and i don't mind paying the extra cash when you get things like inspections, repairs, and sometimes even a look underneath before you buy.

I agree you can get a way better deal buying privately but for the average person a dealership can be a safer way to go. My lude came with a 10 day/1000 km free exchange or fix if i didn't like it or anything broke aswell as the option to buy a 60000km/3yr warranty.

I ended up getting a new windshield(there was a small crack when bought) and a leaking vtec solenoid gasket fixed for free even though the leak started 12 days after purchase, saved me 2hrs labour.
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FlowingMetal View Post
uhlig is right on the money, I actually got the dealership i bought my lude from to drop 3,000 off the price and bump my trade in up $2500 just so they could get the financing. I prefer to buy my cars from dealerships and i don't mind paying the extra cash when you get things like inspections, repairs, and sometimes even a look underneath before you buy.

I agree you can get a way better deal buying privately but for the average person a dealership can be a safer way to go. My lude came with a 10 day/1000 km free exchange or fix if i didn't like it or anything broke aswell as the option to buy a 60000km/3yr warranty.

I ended up getting a new windshield(there was a small crack when bought) and a leaking vtec solenoid gasket fixed for free even though the leak started 12 days after purchase, saved me 2hrs labour.
safer....i guess that is a fair statement overall since the car is brand new and shouldn't have any flaws in the first place. But why are you more comfortble buying a car from a dealership when they adjust your quoted price and trade in value (in this case) up to $5500, when you know that it makes no difference b/c they are gonna get you for potentially 6-10 g's or more from financing? Either way, they will make their money, you just have to try to pay as less as possible. I don't care how good the deal "sounds," financing through a dealer can be one of the worst choices to make (not all inclusive, but USUALLY).

Every book I've read about dealerships recommends fincance through your own bank and make an offer that aims for the salesman's first teir of commision. This way you have less factors to calculate for your actual price vs appearance price, the salesman is somewhat satisfied b/c he is still making a sale even though he didnt get as much as he wanted, AND you are not paying 12% on a 6 year loan.

So, I disagree. for the "average person," the dealer is the worst place to go. It's not like shopping at wal-mart. You are more likely to get a bad deal. The dealership is a huge game specifically designed to make a lot of money from their customers, especially from "average people" who are easily fooled by a suit and classic sales-tactics. The dealer is much safer to those who are familiar with the game and know how to work the angles. On a side note, I feel the 10 day exchange/repair policy is the stupidest sales tactic I've ever heard. Why wouldn't a company do that anyways? If I am paying that much for a product, It better come with some type of warranty or protection...in the long run, a windsheild fix and a few hours labor is a drop in the bucket when compared to the finance profit.

nothing peronal FlowingMetal, Just my opinion.
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Old 02-29-2008, 01:06 PM
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I hear ya man, u make alot of good points. What i'm getting at is the potential to be completely scammed or ripped off on a used car is high no matter how u buy it. The dealership will overcharge thats guaranteed and the chances of getting a good deal are like non existant.

If the engine and tranny both blew apart 9 days after i bought the car from a dealer i wouldn't be paying for it if it were a private sale i'd be hooped. Most private sales won't let you get the car inspected or even let you jack it up. Unless you really know what your doing its a crapshoot. You'd be surprised to hear some of the things peeps do before they sell their cars, i know i guy who would put sawdust into his noisy/broken diffs before he sold his car, the sound would be gone for like 5 days and then bam no diff.

My thinking is the average person will have a better understanding of negotiation and sales tactics than mechanics.
On the other hand a person could easily spend more at a dealer then he would going privately and fixing as needed.
Personally I'll buy anywhere aslong as it's the car i want.


Oh one last thing, if you do buy from a dealership go in with your cash in hand even if you had to finance it through your bank. Any salesman will tell you that a cash sale gives them the least opportunity to make more money off u.
I actually got offered a lower financing rate at the dealership then at my bank so i'm a lucky one i guess that or my bank sucks lol

Last edited by FlowingMetal; 02-29-2008 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 02-29-2008, 01:16 PM
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lol i like your sig quote,
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:27 PM
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I'm working on getting a 99 base right now for 5500 private party. It has already been agreed that she will take it to my mechanic. If everything checks out, it should be a good deal considering kbb is about 7k.

On the note of crazy stuff people do to sell their cars: My friend was looking at Forerunner and had it looked at by our mechanic. The mechanic found out that the guy had hosed down the top of the engine and basically everything under the hood, to hide some kind of oil leak. In short, he got water in several places that qualify as big no-no's, potentially screwing his car up and his chances to sell it, and he still didn't sell the car unless he found some sucker. Luckily my friend wasn't that guy.
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