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Bushing and Camber Kit Discussion

 
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:38 PM
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Bushing and Camber Kit Discussion

I was having a couple problems with my 4th gen h22a/lsd swap. I had the suspension redone at the same time. Basically, I had a bad shudder from the back right on hard left hand corners, and my front end had a tendancy to "ka-thunk" going across uneven pavement. Here is some more info:
Hard cornering = bad shudder
Suspension setups

Anyway, I got a master kit of polyurethane suspension bushings, as well as sway bar and end-link, and trailing arm bushings from energy suspension ($200). I had these installed at my shop (takes about 10 hours so be ready to pay). This has completely fixed both my problems. The car is now super-tight and as "smooth" as it can be with agxes set on the second to stiffest setting. The steering feels tighter, the wheels do not squeal as quickly, and the car feels super-confident. Bascially, this is THE MOST IMPORTANT UPGRADE I have done on my car. It is amazing the amount of difference between the old (227K) and the new bushings.

For those of you, like me, who value handling over speed (within reason), you must do this upgrade if you are on some historic bushings like I am. If anyone has any specific questions, post, and I will try to address them.

Last edited by mr_y82; 07-22-2008 at 02:01 AM. Reason: new, better title...
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:55 PM
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damn, this topic was a big hit.
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:31 PM
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Well what do you expect mate?

You're right that bushings are an important part of the suspension setup, and one that is commonly overlooked. Thanks for posting your experience.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:40 PM
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That response works.. :)

I just thought somebody might say something, esp anyone else who has replaced their bushings. Silly topics like "newb questions" that have been covered a hundred times always seem to do well, I was looking forward to something a bit different.

It was more of a humorous "damn this was popular", not a sign that I was offended. :)

Next time I will ask what exhaust won't make me sound like a ricer.
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:02 PM
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i also agree
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
Next time I will ask what exhaust won't make me sound like a ricer.
Ok, you did it, you made me laugh.
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:58 PM
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Well, I appreciate the responses...

I guess I can't expect you suckers to to be as excited as me about this upgrade; I'm the one who is slicing up the tarmac (bruising my kidneys).

:)
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:30 PM
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so you bought a master kit from them. did you end up using all of the bushing or were there some that you didnt use. what would you say are the most important ones to change if you didnt have the money for a master kit.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:52 PM
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I would probably save up and get the master kit... you should be able to find it for about 140 or a touch less. I also had to buy trailing arm and sway bar end link bushings separate. For the issues I was having I would say the trailing arm, strut mounts, and control arm bushings were all really important.

The car is super tight and feels so damn good... it is worth the cost.

Last edited by mr_y82; 07-20-2008 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:10 PM
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how much did the labor to put all those in cost you.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:32 PM
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labor was about $650... but once you get in and ride around you don't feel nearly as bad about it :).
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:38 PM
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Woah!! $650 + 170 GOD DAMN!

good to know thanks.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:02 PM
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^^haha, that is what I said!

I didn't really have another option... the labor was the beast so going oem wouldn't even have helped.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash22 View Post
Well what do you expect mate?

You're right that bushings are an important part of the suspension setup, and one that is commonly overlooked. Thanks for posting your experience.
see these get a bit redundant:

http://www.preludezone.com/showthrea...d=1#post159179

but I guess I can't say anything, I am participating in the discussion as well!

I feel better now
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:01 PM
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for 650 ill just tackle the task myself lol or at least try.
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:16 PM
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^^That's the spirit... have any friends with a press?... you might like to have it. I bet you spend at least 3 hours per corner... so have fun... I decided us that extra money from uncle sam to have my shop do it and that way they can eat and pay rent... haha

plus I am lazy and was scared to undertake that project. Changing the rotors and pads was enough fun for me... I am sure if I had tried messing with my bushings I would have posted a disaster story instead of a positive report.

I've made a lot of appearances at the shop lately so they actually did 2 hours labor for free.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:26 PM
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650+170 isn't that bad, sounds about right.
That's the best price you can pay for making your car feel like it did when it was first assembled.

I want to do my entire car as well, but i have other aspirations at the moment
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
I was having a couple problems with my 4th gen h22a/lsd swap. I had the suspension redone at the same time. Basically, I had a bad shudder from the back right on hard left hand corners, and my front end had a tendancy to "ka-thunk" going across uneven pavement.

do you mean ka-thunk as in bottoming out or just a noise from your suspension? I put in a front camber kit and now every time i hit a bump my car bottoms out or makes a loud noise lol. I think i may have damaged the bushings from jacking it up so much(is that possible?)

hope its not too much of a noob question
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:16 PM
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I've been interested in this as well. I drive a 5th Base and the master kit is not available but after a little research I've found a combination of SH and
4th gen parts will get most of it. I already have all poly-u sway bar bushings. I did this myself in a CRX and it wasn't that bad.

If somebody had the time it would be interesting to do the parts one at a time to see what effect which parts had.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:26 PM
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hojemwod^ def. won't hurt anything to replace them... but it may not be the problem... could be, but I doubt you did it...

I thought I was bottoming the shock (even though I still had halved oem bumpstops at the time... new ones came with the master kit). However, a lot of the bumps were not big enough and there was not enough movement of the shock for it to be bottoming, even though that is what it sounded like. It had to have been some interaction with the bushings as I have not had a single problem since replacing them...

here is how I described the problem on one of the other threads I posted on the first post:

" Suspension setups
I have really liked the agxes expect for one small thing... they are working on a road near my house and it seems where they have bummed up the road I will sometimes hit something that doesn't look that bad (a small crack in the pavement) and I bottom out pretty hard. I have minimized this by going on the stiffest setting on all 4 corners, and many times bumps that look bigger don't seem to phase the setup... I know agxes warranty is void if you lower more than 1.5" (but I traded my old h23 for the shocks and don't think the warranty transfers) and the NS sports lower 1.7" in front... I thought that was close enough that it would not really matter, seems like logically I should bottom out less with a 1.7" drop on the stiffest setting (which is not really that uncomfortable) than someone with a 1.5" drop running on the softest setting (which I have never used)."


So, in a nutshell... I guess it was just a noise, not a bottoming issue, but it had me fooled.

How many miles on the bushings? Seems like it might be something else if you just did the front camber kit. What kit did you use? I highly recommend the spc balljoints (no bolt style kits please). I don't think you could have damaged the car jacking it up... if you are smart enough to do the camber kit I'm sure you lifted the car without causing trouble. How long since you put the camber kit on? How long has your car been lowered? Pretty sure part of the reason I developed a problem right after lowering (with 227k on the car) was because the bushings were pretty questionable, and objected to the new setup... they had deformed slightly in ways that did not become apparent until the sport suspension went on.

so...
-check over for any physical problems... control arms, tie rods, etc...
-alignment
-if you have high miles and you run out of ideas like I did (my motorsports shop looked over it twice and basically said since there was not another problem it must be the bushings), consider getting some urethane bushings... as long as you don't mind it a little tight/stiff they are a nice upgrade that outperforms the oem rubber... don't take that out of context you pervs.


ps... there's no such thing as a noob question for someone who posted how to take apart and fix the climate control... plus you've got way more posts than me...

Last edited by mr_y82; 07-20-2008 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dblair View Post
I've been interested in this as well. I drive a 5th Base and the master kit is not available but after a little research I've found a combination of SH and
4th gen parts will get most of it. I already have all poly-u sway bar bushings. I did this myself in a CRX and it wasn't that bad.

If somebody had the time it would be interesting to do the parts one at a time to see what effect which parts had.
the problem is you'd have to rip everything back apart and pretty much need an alignment after adding each set of parts :(... they hated doing my bushings all at once one time... haha. took 10.5 hours to get those old crusty ba$tards out.

(I went to 92, and 97... it shouldn't matter, but this is a disclaimer)
4th gen. http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...s.asp?cat=1058
5th gen base http://www.energysuspensionparts.com....asp?cat=10572
5th gen sh http://www.energysuspensionparts.com...s.asp?cat=1063 (there is a master kit for these guys)
there are def. some of the same part numbers for both 4th and 5th gen.

Last edited by mr_y82; 07-20-2008 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
hojemwod^ def. won't hurt anything to replace them... but it may not be the problem... could be, but I doubt you did it...

I thought I was bottoming the shock (even though I still had halved oem bumpstops at the time... new ones came with the master kit). However, a lot of the bumps were not big enough and there was not enough movement of the shock for it to be bottoming, even though that is what it sounded like. It had to have been some interaction with the bushings as I have not had a single problem since replacing them...

here is how I described the problem on one of the other threads I posted on the first post:

" Suspension setups
I have really liked the agxes expect for one small thing... they are working on a road near my house and it seems where they have bummed up the road I will sometimes hit something that doesn't look that bad (a small crack in the pavement) and I bottom out pretty hard. I have minimized this by going on the stiffest setting on all 4 corners, and many times bumps that look bigger don't seem to phase the setup... I know agxes warranty is void if you lower more than 1.5" (but I traded my old h23 for the shocks and don't think the warranty transfers) and the NS sports lower 1.7" in front... I thought that was close enough that it would not really matter, seems like logically I should bottom out less with a 1.7" drop on the stiffest setting (which is not really that uncomfortable) than someone with a 1.5" drop running on the softest setting (which I have never used)."


So, in a nutshell... I guess it was just a noise, not a bottoming issue, but it had me fooled.

How many miles on the bushings? Seems like it might be something else if you just did the front camber kit. What kit did you use? I highly recommend the spc balljoints (no bolt style kits please). I don't think you could have damaged the car jacking it up... if you are smart enough to do the camber kit I'm sure you lifted the car without causing trouble. How long since you put the camber kit on? How long has your car been lowered? Pretty sure part of the reason I developed a problem right after lowering (with 227k on the car) was because the bushings were pretty questionable, and objected to the new setup... they had deformed slightly in ways that did not become apparent until the sport suspension went on.

so...
-check over for any physical problems... control arms, tie rods, etc...
-alignment
-if you have high miles and you run out of ideas like I did (my motorsports shop looked over it twice and basically said since there was not another problem it must be the bushings), consider getting some urethane bushings... as long as you don't mind it a little tight/stiff they are a nice upgrade that outperforms the oem rubber... don't take that out of context you pervs.


ps... there's no such thing as a noob question for someone who posted how to take apart and fix the climate control... plus you've got way more posts than me...
lol sweet thanks. I used the Northstar ball joint camber kit with a big nut that goes on top from advanced auto. It is a good quality kit I must say. I read somewhere that the huge nut hits the shock tower on the 4th gens but this was after I had installed the kit . But when I put my hand under there it seems like there is a lot of room and the bumps im hitting dont seem big enough to move the shock that much, and so I thought I'd ask your opinion about the bushings. All of my tie rods and everything are good and I just had it aligned(which was the reason I had to get the bj kit..my bj's were shot and they couldnt align it lol). Maybe my front shocks are just getting worn too, they are lower than the back and unmodified. I dont really know how many miles are on them or the bushings, or anything for that matter. I just bought the car last year and replace the parts as they go

O yea, my car isnt lowered and the kit was put on maybe 600-800 miles ago.

I'll probably do the bushings sometime or another just for the hell of it.

Thanks for all the info man

Last edited by hojemwod; 07-20-2008 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:54 PM
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hojemwod - i have seen this before on my buddies eclipse, and i can promise you, the kit you got is what is making that sound. The only way to not get the sound is to get a sliding ball joint set up for adjustable camber kit. The camber kits that have a ball joint are WAY too big, and either they dont fit or they hit really bad and knock too.

When we switched his to the slider ball joint, it was amazing, and I plan on doing it soon too, especially with my large drop.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:41 AM
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hojemwod, ^ he could be right... the "balljoints" could be the source of the noise... (If you are not going to lower, you could get o.e. balljoints). At this point I would wait until you replace the shocks to do the bushings... it will save you time or money... I love the upgrade, but I would have been reluctant to shell out close to $900 if I had not been having problems with the old bushings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skterelement03 View Post
The camber kits that have a ball joint are WAY too big, and either they dont fit or they hit really bad and knock too.
dude, can you give us an example... are you saying these "sliding ball joints" would these work? and tell us what your drop is....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SPC-F...mZ160212701347 (I THINK these will give about as much clearance as anything you can get.. this is what I have with only a 1.7" drop)
I think these are some you are suggesting are good too....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...em160261482063
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...em260263010198


here are examples of what I would not get...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...em220257844962
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...em310068072178

Can you clarify for us just a bit? Thanks man, appreciate the info.

Last edited by mr_y82; 07-21-2008 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
hojemwod, ^ he could be right... the "balljoints" could be the source of the noise... (If you are not going to lower, you could get o.e. balljoints). At this point I would wait until you replace the shocks to do the bushings... it will save you time or money... I love the upgrade, but I would have been reluctant to shell out close to $900 if I had not been having problems with the old bushings...



dude, can you give us an example... are you saying these "sliding ball joints" would these work? and tell us what your drop is....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SPC-F...mZ160212701347 (I THINK these will give about as much clearance as anything you can get.. this is what I have with only a 1.7" drop)
I think these are some you are suggesting are good too....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...em160261482063
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...em260263010198


here are examples of what I would not get...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...em220257844962
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...em310068072178

Can you clarify for us just a bit? Thanks man, appreciate the info.
Surely, I'll do my best...

What I am talking about is NONE of those above, in fact, I wouldn't buy any of those personally, maybe the SPC's, but that's it. Even the ingalls makes the ball too big, which causes a knock when you go over a bump in the road.

What I am talking about is a whole assembly which includes a sliding adjustable ball joint instead of just the ball assembly, it's the whole arm.

This eliminates the knock that is present when you buy the ingalls or those other crappy no name ones off of eBay.

I know nothing of SPC's, so I'm not gonna knock them or praise them

Any of this make sense...?
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:21 AM
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^sure enough (makes sense)... Keep in mind his car is not lowered... I know for a fact the spc works perfectly even with my 1.7" drop... (and those better looking ingalls... $140ish/2 seems legit and very similar for a little less... in fact spc was making those for another company at one point... seems like it may have been those ingalls.). SPC would be excellent with any sport spring (average drop 1.5"). The spc does say specifically that it is a "sliding ball-joint," do you have a link to a product you think is good?

any of these meet your criteria? (This is an example... I think this place is sometimes overpriced and I have heard questionable things about their customer service)
http://www.andysautosport.com/honda/...n/camber_kits/ (they have 5th gen too... basically the same)

the progress is prob the best there...
http://www.andysautosport.com/honda/...kits/progress/

Let me know what you think of the above.... I spent a really long time looking at balljoints, so I should have seen them all, but it is possible I haven't. Send me a link :)

Again, I have no noise problems, bumping issues, or any other problem related to my SPC sliding balljoints.. in fact, my car is in the best shape it has been since I bought it with the old h23 a few years back... so (temporarily) I'm set!

Last edited by mr_y82; 07-21-2008 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
^sure enough (makes sense)... Keep in mind his car is not lowered... I know for a fact the spc works perfectly even with my 1.7" drop... (and those better looking ingalls... $140ish/2 seems legit and very similar for a little less... in fact spc was making those for another company at one point... seems like it may have been those ingalls.). SPC would be excellent with any sport spring (average drop 1.5"). The spc does say specifically that it is a "sliding ball-joint," do you have a link to a product you think is good?

any of these meet your criteria? (This is an example... I think this place is sometimes overpriced and I have heard questionable things about their customer service)
http://www.andysautosport.com/honda/...n/camber_kits/ (they have 5th gen too... basically the same)

the progress is prob the best there...
http://www.andysautosport.com/honda/...kits/progress/

Let me know what you think of the above.... I spent a really long time looking at balljoints, so I should have seen them all, but it is possible I haven't. Send me a link :)
That first link, click on that, then click on SPC and THAT is what I'm talking about

It's a whole assembly.

And if his car isn't lowered, why is he even bothering with camber kits and adjustable ball joints...?
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:40 AM
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^He picked up some pretty cheap "ball joints" when his old ones were shot (I suggested going back to OE if there are no plans to lower... If I had it to do over again, I might try those ingalls sliding ball joints that look like the SPC for $140/2)... and be fair, don't make the camber kit and balljoint sound like two things... in his case, considering what he needs, it is the same thing.

I'm glad I found the kit you were talking about... lol... guess we are on the same page now.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
^He picked up some pretty cheap "ball joints" when his old ones were shot (I suggested going back to OE if there are no plans to lower... If I had it to do over again, I might try those ingalls sliding ball joints that look like the SPC for $140/2)... and be fair, don't make the camber kit and balljoint sound like two things... in his case, considering what he needs, it is the same thing.

I'm glad I found the kit you were talking about... lol... guess we are on the same page now.
I'm not saying the camber kit and ball joint are two different things, BUT if it's not lowered, then why would you go the route of more money for something not needed? I can understand getting it if he plans on lowering it again

this is all opinion too, don't get upset lol
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:22 PM
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^ Hey man, I'm far from upset (thus the silly "lol"); but if he has used the big a$$ bolt style and it has crated a problem it needs to be addressed. I was offering some ideas (I suggested OE a couple times if there are no plans to lower). If you go with sport springs I suggest one of the sliding balljoints (like SPC or the good Ingalls I posted links to)... If you are gonna slam your ride (and this is where you come in) it sounds like you need something even better (like those an andy's auto). I was just trying to get all the options on the table.

here are some more options:
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/se...294967005+9276

It seems like honda did not make new OE balljoints... you had to buy the whole spankin' upper control arm to get the upper balljoint... so after market is not a bad idea (and looking at those prices at autopartswarehouse is making me think that the Ingalls that cost $280 for all 4 are not a bad deal)

I took no offense to what you said, and I am enjoying the "discussion." It's kinda funny we are this deep into balljoints when he asked about bushings initially.

next time I will wink ;) after "and be fair, don't make the camber kit and balljoint sound like two things"

:) maybe he will come back and read all this crap we've written and benefit from it... or maybe no one will as it is starting to read like a book!... we're co authors!

Last edited by mr_y82; 07-21-2008 at 05:25 PM.
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