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I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

 
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:24 PM
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I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

So remember how I was going to build my motor N/A. . . Yea, that has kind of gotten thrown out the window in the past couple months. I started talking to a few people in the area with boosted Honda's and did some research to really see what I would be getting myself into and found out that for the same money or cheaper I could make more than twice the power of what I would building the motor N/A. The kicker was that a very good friend gave me his turbo off his old setup, and I have done tons of research to get me to this point. Here is my build list and questions. Feel free to make any comments and/or suggestions to me, or ask me any questions.

Power goal is 450whp.


Engine Management:
Hondata S300 with Flex Fuel Capability
Hondata Boost Controller
Hondata 4 Bar Map Sensor
Apex'i or Buddy Club Turbo Timer
AEM Digital or Apex'i Gauges: EGT, Boost, Wideband, Water Temp, Oil Pressure

Turbo Stuffs:
Garrett T3T67 Turbocharger
-Turbo is currently journal bearing and 4 bolt flange, talking with Full-Race to see how much a ball bearing and V-band conversion will be.
Sheepey Bottom Mount Turbo Manifold and 3" Downpipe
3" Mandrel Bent Straight Thru Exhaust
Tial 44mm Wastegate
Tial Q BOV

Engine Harness and Ignition:
Rywire or Wireworx Mil Spec Harness
-Tuck'd version with quick disconnects and firewall plate
Coil on Plug Conversion: OBD1 Distributor, K20 Coils, Hondata CPR Kit, Rosko Billet Distributor Cover

Intake Side:
Koyo Dual Core Radiator (Possible half rad due to manifold)
Spal Slim Fans
Treadstone 500hp Intercooler
2.5" Charge Piping
Skunk2 Pro Intake Manifold
Skunk2 Throttle Body 68mm?
2.5" piping = 63.5mm, opening on IM is 70mm. . Should I match the IM opening, or step up so to speak from the piping? Not real sure how these details can affect air velocity and density.

Block:
Hot Tank
Micropolished Crank
Fully Balanced Rotating Assembly
Kaizenspeed Balance Shaft Delete
Golden Eagle H-Beam Rods
CP Pistons 87mm 9:1
Darton MID Wet Sleeves
Baffled Oil Pan (Possible OEM w/ baffles welded in or Moroso with extra baffle welded in to prevent side to side slosh)
ARP Studs
Gates Racing Timing Belt
New Honda Oil and Water Pumps
New Honda Bearings, Seals, Gaskets, etc.

Head:
Stock Cams
Skunk2 Pro Cam Gears
Supertech Valvetrain: Dual Springs/Ti Retainers/Bronze Valve Guides/SS Black Nitrided Valves/Valve Seals
Stock Head Gasket
Hot Tank
Would I need to have the head ported with valve job?

Fuel - E85:
Walbro Pump 255 or 400
+1000cc Injectors
Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Regulator
Aeromotive Fuel Filter
Golden Eagle Fuel Rail
-8 AN Lines and Fittings
I'm still getting the details set for the fuel system, it's a little different setting up for E85 because you have to adjust for a 30% increase in flow compared to pump gas. I have seen people run the standard 255 pump and 1000cc injectors making around 500whp and more in some cases but their duty cycles are over 80%. I need to talk to my engine builder and tuner more to see what I need to get.

Transmission:
Synchrotech Carbon Master Rebuild Kit
Quaife LSD
Driveshaft Shop 2.9 Axles
Is the stock intermediate shaft strong enough to handle 450whp?
Competition Clutch Kit
Guessing I'm going to need a twin disk setup to reliably drive this kind of power without any hiccups?

Miscellaneous:
MFactory Oil Cooler
Blueridge Catch Can
Oil Lines for Turbo
Dump Tube for Wastegate
Rosko Spark Plug Cover for COP Conversion
Skunk2 Billet Black VTEC Solenoid
PWJDM Hardware for Valve Cover, Cam Cap, Distributor
Shave and Respray Bay
Relocate Fuse Box to Glove Box
Relocate Battery to Trunk
A/C Delete
E85 Tester

Suspension:
Dampening Adjustable Coilovers Still Undecided
ESP Traction Bar with Torque Mount
ESP Front Upper Strut Bar
ESP Rear X-Brace Upper Strut Bar
New OEM UCA's
New OEM Toe Arms
Energy Suspension Bushings for LCA's and every where else I can put them.
Manual Steering Rack Conversion
17x9 +45 wheels on all four corners
245/40 Sticky Tires
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:03 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Looking forward to this build!
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:46 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

your list is solid! Good choice with choosing to run "corn."

One thing I want to point out is that E85 is not always E85. So also add in your budget an E85 tester. I think you'll make more power than you think you'll make...

TEL.

ps go with the Walbro 400....
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:33 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

I approve of this message!
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:35 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

**** YA
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:47 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Sounds pretty good! You forgot one thing on your list though...$$Money$$ lol
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:57 AM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

power to money ratio always favors boost. Jezebel will join you eventually
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:47 AM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Thanks guys, anybody know answers to any of the questions in red?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.E.L. View Post
your list is solid! Good choice with choosing to run "corn."

One thing I want to point out is that E85 is not always E85. So also add in your budget an E85 tester. I think you'll make more power than you think you'll make...

TEL.

ps go with the Walbro 400....
Yea I've read about how the mixture can change with the season, especially in colder areas.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:11 AM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

this is going to be a sick build
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:16 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

some say that wavetrac is better than quaife...

how about sway bars?
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:22 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

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some say that wavetrac is better than quaife...

how about sway bars?
I'll look into them. I've got a huge Progress rear sway that has balanced the car out a lot and has even induced a little oversteer when I'm driving the car real hard. I don't wanna stick a bigger front sway and introduce understeer back into the system.
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:47 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

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Originally Posted by 1BadBB6 View Post
I'll look into them. I've got a huge Progress rear sway that has balanced the car out a lot and has even induced a little oversteer when I'm driving the car real hard. I don't wanna stick a bigger front sway and introduce understeer back into the system.
It's pretty big. I've seen pictures
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:33 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Don't the old Progress bars have a habit of ripping the mounts out of the body?
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:06 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

mathmatically on E85 1000cc injectors tend to max out @ 450whp. I know its way more than you want to spend but ID2000 would go phenominal with this set-up and will leave you with more room to carry up the boost if you ever want to turn it up. also ID2000's idle very well and max out roughly around 900whp

running e85 require more fuel to go in so therefore max's out your set-ups fuel system a little quicker a good mathmatical way of looking at where your at is this below:

for regular fuel - .60 X CC of injectors = maximum whp. or maxed out duty cycle.
for E85 its - .45 X CC of injectors = maximum whp. or maxed out duty cycle.

1000cc injectors on e85 max out @ 450whp and just leaves a sketchy duty cycle rating at high rpm. hope i helped man!

Also if you do not want to run a twin plate as I still wish I wouldn't have to you could always go with the ACT stage 5 clutch with their x-tereme heavy duty preassure plate. which i've seen on our heavy ludes on 500+ whp. and they do fine. I chose twin disc due to the fact of not having to second guess it, the only down side is daily drivability, and the extreme cluncking sound when the clutch is dis-engaged. to the un-traine dear it may sound as if your car is "messing up"

How much PSI do you plan on putting on her to reach this 450whp, with 9.0:1 and a strong responsive head, You could run that thing on Pump Gas lol Im sure i'll get flammed for saying it but ive seen that before also... theres a 600whp prelude on pump gas man its albout supporting mods to get you there. if thats the case you can keep your factory hardlines, precision 1000cc injectors, russels in line fuel filter, and save on money, having to worry about the e85 ever leaving. just an option bro!

Me personally I am searching for 550whp on pump gas; however, after the tune on pump I'll be buying about 4 gallons of race gas and per fill-up il be mixing 1 gallon of race gas to a 10 gallon pump gas fill up (so essentially 10:1 ratio pump:race). this will help in detnation and just a tad bit of assurance at higher rpm's. while not breaking the bank dumping tons of money on race gas. if you live close to e85 stations that makes it a tad easier as far as worst case scenarios man.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:06 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

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Originally Posted by 1BadBB6 View Post
Thanks guys, anybody know answers to any of the questions in red?



Yea I've read about how the mixture can change with the season, especially in colder areas.
to the parts in red

1.) no do not match them (intake and exhaust)... this is the short answer. you'll find out why in your research. you want the air coming in through a smaller space than it is exiting if you get what I'm saying. 70mm is like 2.75 inches if I remember correctly... that should help you out with the intake pipe ;)

2.) not a needed but would be nice

3.) stock shaft is OK

4.) you want the most grip possible that won't compromise drive ability. this is up to you as long as the clutch does not slip under pressure. I don't remember seeing anything about flywheel in your list; that's a GOOD thing. Use the stock one...

I can tell you want it done right and to the questions your asking with the exception to the first one; there aren't any right or wrong answers so to speak.



With E85 what I've learned is to befriend the owner of the gas station you will primarily use, find out if they actually make sure it's E85 or higher. if so make him/her your best friend lol...
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:08 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by HpreludeH View Post
mathmatically on E85 1000cc injectors tend to max out @ 450whp. I know its way more than you want to spend but ID2000 would go phenominal with this set-up and will leave you with more room to carry up the boost if you ever want to turn it up. also ID2000's idle very well and max out roughly around 900whp

running e85 require more fuel to go in so therefore max's out your set-ups fuel system a little quicker a good mathmatical way of looking at where your at is this below:

for regular fuel - .60 X CC of injectors = maximum whp.
for E85 its - .45 X CC of injectors = maximum whp.

1000cc injectors on e85 max out @ 450whp and just leaves a sketchy duty cycle rating at high rpm. hope i helped man!
good shyt! !!!! 1badbb6 look into that pump...
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:26 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Did somebody say BOOST?!
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:26 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Wow, this is going to be fun to watch.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:13 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

BB6, I applause you! Nothing like poorman diesel!

Get a heavy flywheel for the 450hp, the tougher you make every part, the better your transmission will live. Custom shafts that can handle 500hp , incase you mishift. It happens.

E85 needs zero restriction in the fuel delivery department. If turbo on gas needs 1000 for a safe boost, you need 1200 or 1400cc for E85, and if you listed it full teflon steel fuel lines. The rubber / stock filter will eventually clog. Steel element fuel filter with the high end magnets on the outside. You also need spark plugs that can take the E85. Taylor spark plug wires the minimum "thunderspark series".

The intake parts should be as wide as possible, because e85 needs air.
The rest of the stuff is good, some solid engine mounts, grade 8.xx bolts where you can replace them in the chassis, mainly the engine bay.

Might be over kill, but some more weld points to stiffen the chassis too. 450-500 in fwd will be hell on wheels!!! Subscribed!
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:05 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Thanks for the input everyone!!

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Originally Posted by HpreludeH View Post
mathmatically on E85 1000cc injectors tend to max out @ 450whp. I know its way more than you want to spend but ID2000 would go phenominal with this set-up and will leave you with more room to carry up the boost if you ever want to turn it up. also ID2000's idle very well and max out roughly around 900whp

Also if you do not want to run a twin plate as I still wish I wouldn't have to you could always go with the ACT stage 5 clutch with their x-tereme heavy duty preassure plate. which i've seen on our heavy ludes on 500+ whp. and they do fine. I chose twin disc due to the fact of not having to second guess it, the only down side is daily drivability, and the extreme cluncking sound when the clutch is dis-engaged. to the un-traine dear it may sound as if your car is "messing up"

How much PSI do you plan on putting on her to reach this 450whp, with 9.0:1 and a strong responsive head, You could run that thing on Pump Gas lol Im sure i'll get flammed for saying it but ive seen that before also... theres a 600whp prelude on pump gas man its albout supporting mods to get you there. if thats the case you can keep your factory hardlines, precision 1000cc injectors, russels in line fuel filter, and save on money, having to worry about the e85 ever leaving. just an option bro!
THANKS SO MUCH for all of that info!!

I'll check out the ID's.

How is the drivability of the twin disk? I've never driven a car with one. If that's the way to go I don't care to give up a little bit of comfort. This is not a daily driver in anyway. It maybe gets 50 miles a week put on it at this point. But I'm sure once it gets boosted I'll want to drive it more.

Yea, I know I could run pump gas and still reach the 450whp. But I like all of the pros of E85 with being more resistance to knock and what not. Plus there are two stations within 15 minutes of my house that have it.

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Originally Posted by T.E.L. View Post
to the parts in red

4.) you want the most grip possible that won't compromise drive ability. this is up to you as long as the clutch does not slip under pressure. I don't remember seeing anything about flywheel in your list; that's a GOOD thing. Use the stock one...

With E85 what I've learned is to befriend the owner of the gas station you will primarily use, find out if they actually make sure it's E85 or higher. if so make him/her your best friend lol...
Yea that's bc if I go twin disk the flywheel comes with it and if I don't I was planning on remaining stock.

Haha yea, I was planning on taking a trip out to the local stations to talk to the people that order the fuel close to when I actually start the build process.

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Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
BB6, I applause you! Nothing like poorman diesel!

Get a heavy flywheel for the 450hp, the tougher you make every part, the better your transmission will live. Custom shafts that can handle 500hp , incase you mishift. It happens.

E85 needs zero restriction in the fuel delivery department. If turbo on gas needs 1000 for a safe boost, you need 1200 or 1400cc for E85, and if you listed it full teflon steel fuel lines. The rubber / stock filter will eventually clog. Steel element fuel filter with the high end magnets on the outside. You also need spark plugs that can take the E85. Taylor spark plug wires the minimum "thunderspark series".

The intake parts should be as wide as possible, because e85 needs air.
The rest of the stuff is good, some solid engine mounts, grade 8.xx bolts where you can replace them in the chassis, mainly the engine bay.

Might be over kill, but some more weld points to stiffen the chassis too. 450-500 in fwd will be hell on wheels!!! Subscribed!
That's kind of my thinking as far as strengthening everything, more for piece of mind than anything.

All fuel stuffs will be being replaced from pump to injectors, all AN lines and fittings. I was going to leave spark plugs up to my tuner, as he should know what will be the best for me to run.

I wouldn't say the intake parts need to be as wide as possible, 2.5" charge piping should be more than enough. Some people are running 2" piping and stock TB and IM and are getting over 400whp. I've got ESP mounts already with grade 8 stuff, and I'm very happy with them.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:13 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BadBB6 View Post
Thanks for the input everyone!!



THANKS SO MUCH for all of that info!!

I'll check out the ID's.

How is the drivability of the twin disk? I've never driven a car with one. If that's the way to go I don't care to give up a little bit of comfort. This is not a daily driver in anyway. It maybe gets 50 miles a week put on it at this point. But I'm sure once it gets boosted I'll want to drive it more.

Yea, I know I could run pump gas and still reach the 450whp. But I like all of the pros of E85 with being more resistance to knock and what not. Plus there are two stations within 15 minutes of my house that have it.

ID's are by far the best injector on the market, hands down. The idle quality of even their id2000's is better than my precision 1000's. its hard to describe the feeling I feel with the 1000's but the dude who is going to be tuning my car next has id2000's on his s2k and feels nothing ( on my precision 1000's you only feel this at idle and sometimes It feels stock, but when it does slightly vibrate I just barely touch the throttle and it does fine.)

The twin disc I personally havent drove yet either all of what i told you is just research of my own on it. dont listen to them from videos on youtube, bc the camera amplifies how bad it truly sounds. but I know the preassure of a twin disc is very light (equivalent to a stage 1 or 2) but its very very immediate and grabs like a mofo! again this is all research ive looked up on; however ive heard the sound quite a bit at the track and i know at the track stuff isnt as loud (harder to hear blow off valves, turbos, etc.) but the sound isn't terriable. my gf thought the car was fvcked up thoe if that helps out with the noise factor. once the clutch gets broken down, and dust forms between the floaters and disc. They say the noise quiets up, alot of people ride the clutch excessively after everything is broken in. to aid in deminishing the noise. (I to will be doing this lol)
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:23 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Well, considering I was gonna make a E85 496 stroker, I've been reseaching the fuel delivery system and what options to take. Flex fuel for the most part need large injectors and junk.

When I'm done with the truck, I want a 400whp/500wtq powerhouse. For intent and purposes the best ethanol is E100.
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Quote:
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BA B20A 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:48 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Boost ftw!! NA is easier to deal with and more sleeper imo, but boost is the way to make real power! Good luck with the build, I will be following this thread due to some great info being posted!
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if it's knocking, don't answer it. it's prolly nothing but bad news bears.
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As much as I'd love to see this done, I offer you the same comment I offer everybody else: There's no point in being the first to do something if you're second across the finish line.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:04 AM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

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Boost ftw!! NA is easier to deal with and more sleeper imo, but boost is the way to make real power! Good luck with the build, I will be following this thread due to some great info being posted!
I've seen some sick killer sleeper set-ups turbod man! the typical black intercooler, black piping, recirculated wastegate. dude you'd never know! imo the biggest sleepers are the ones that use nitrous lol biggest reality check when you see your opponent purge :o
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:06 AM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

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Originally Posted by HpreludeH View Post
I've seen some sick killer sleeper set-ups turbod man! the typical black intercooler, black piping, recirculated wastegate. dude you'd never know! imo the biggest sleepers are the ones that use nitrous lol biggest reality check when you see your opponent purge :o
Haha, I just figure it's easier to hear a turbo car, plus when the hood is open it's a giveaway. Na could just look like a regular motor with some bolt on's until you rev to 10k haha. Nos is a whole new field lol, I'd be purging 24/7 haha!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
if it's knocking, don't answer it. it's prolly nothing but bad news bears.
Quote:
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As much as I'd love to see this done, I offer you the same comment I offer everybody else: There's no point in being the first to do something if you're second across the finish line.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2013, 08:56 AM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by HpreludeH View Post
The twin disc I personally havent drove yet either all of what i told you is just research of my own on it. dont listen to them from videos on youtube, bc the camera amplifies how bad it truly sounds. but I know the preassure of a twin disc is very light (equivalent to a stage 1 or 2) but its very very immediate and grabs like a mofo! again this is all research ive looked up on; however ive heard the sound quite a bit at the track and i know at the track stuff isnt as loud (harder to hear blow off valves, turbos, etc.) but the sound isn't terriable. my gf thought the car was fvcked up thoe if that helps out with the noise factor. once the clutch gets broken down, and dust forms between the floaters and disc. They say the noise quiets up, alot of people ride the clutch excessively after everything is broken in. to aid in deminishing the noise. (I to will be doing this lol)
Oh ok, my friend is building his civic for 1000hp (GSR bored to 2.0, huge precision turbo, E85, etc.) and got an Exedy twin disk, and he's already told me he's going to let me drive it. So I'll report back to you with how it feels and what not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers4Life View Post
Boost ftw!! NA is easier to deal with and more sleeper imo, but boost is the way to make real power! Good luck with the build, I will be following this thread due to some great info being posted!
Just about everything that's going into this car will be black, all black piping and seeing if I can order the IC in black as well. So to the untrained eye it will look like a sleeper.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:47 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Updates?
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SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:03 PM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

How's it all goin?
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:05 AM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

Badbb6 for your fuel lines all you need -8 is the feed and for the return you need -6 and your going to need a fuel lab 10or 6 micron inline fuel filter and make sure you get e85 injectors or ones that are compatible. I'm in the process of my turbo build with e85 except I'm going for 750hp try and see if you can get a straight fitting for your fuel feed from the tank as the banjo fitting is restrictive. If you have questions just let me know I'm mainly on the bb alliance tb Facebook page under Jesse James bosman.I got my injectors from fuel injector clinic I'm going to be running 2150cc or better known as fic's
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:07 AM
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Re: I Need Boost in My Life. . . and E85

And I would go with a Walboro 450 if you want to upgrade your power later that's what I'm going to be running
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94 daily driver drill slotted rotors-msd setup-stage 3 clutch and 8.5 lb flywheel f22a1,5lug swap on rsx rims wrapped in 205/40/16,5gen glass sunroof conversion,jdm headlights,wit h&r drop springs

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