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G23/Boost questions

 
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:17 PM
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G23/Boost questions

Haha I know... Yet another G23 thread in out FI section lol. Well I got everything figured out, I am not going to worry about my motor I have now, I will probably just use some of the parts for my G23 build and part out the rest and mark it up as a learning experience.

With my G23 I am going to use the following parts:

F23 block
F23 crank
H22 head
K20 forged rods
K20 forged pistons

For the forged pistons I have only really found them in 9:1 and 11.7-12:1 CR. I couldn't really find the CC of the dome's of either of these pistons so I put it in a k-series calculator and I got 9:1 would be ~ -8cc and 11.7:1 would be ~ 8cc so when I put that in with my f23 block, f23 crank, h22 head (milled .02) and k20 rods I get either 10.75:1 or 8.66:1

I want to know if that was an okay way to do the math on the pistons? What compression ratio would I rather use (I am planning on ~ 400whp with a dual ball bearing gt35r at around 20 pounds... I think I could use less boost with the higher comp but I don't know if it would be safe)? I could also deck the block a little more with the 8.66:1 and if I decked it around .02 I would be right around 9:1 which sounds a lot safer.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:24 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

Also I just looked at the rod/stroke ratio and it is 1.43:1 which I do believe is not very good but will that matter with the boost I am going to be running?

The piston to deck height is .059 so I could technically deck like .05 off the block would I find any problems doing that? If I decked off .04 I would be at 9.32 which sounds pretty good to me
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:50 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

I am not too worried about the rod/stroke ratio anymore, I thought about putting in the h22 crank and h22 rods but I don't want my stroke and displacement to go so far down because I want my turbo to spool fast, with the 1.43:1 ratio at 7000 rpm's I will be a little bit under the max speed of the h22 pistons at 1.58:1 ratio at 7400 rpm's. Plus I will have forged pistons, forged rods, and iron sleeves so I am not too worried... I just found some pistons that say they are "flat top" does that mean they have a 0cc dome? If so I am going to go with those pistons because that would put me at 9.58:1 CR and I would be fine with that.

I read this a little bit ago

Quote:
Stock RSX/K series pistons are similar in bore sizes but nothing alike in valve pocket angle.

The K series valves are closer to a straight up and down set up, like this : l l

The H//B/D series valves are angled, similar to this :\ /

The valve reliefs would have to be cut to acomidate for the difference in valve directional angles, the wrist pins are the same as the B series pistons so the rods would need to be rebushed to accept the smaller pin and the compression height is a lot shorter (1.181) which is the same as most shelf B series pistons
But would I really have to worry about that with me having .059 piston to deck height plus the .026 headgasket giving me .085 between the top of the piston and the bottom of the head? I am only going to be running the stock cams.
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:22 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

g23 is more of a crazy all motor build engine being that its stroked. G22 is great for boost tho. Not saying u cant boost urs just generalizing
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:41 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Originally Posted by Diamond_lude View Post
g23 is more of a crazy all motor build engine being that its stroked. G22 is great for boost tho. Not saying u cant boost urs just generalizing
Yeah I think the fact that its stroked and that it is a 2.3 rather than a 2.2 will help the turbo spool a little quicker and I am not worried about having the little lower redline because of it. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but with the torque I think it will spool the turbo faster and I won't feel much lag because I will have a ton of torque anyways
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:55 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

man i launched at 3000 today with my g23 and it took off like a rocket. touched 8 grand, maybe a little more. the g23 will handle revs just as well as an h22. it has a lot more torque though. dont forget to factor in the head having 1 mm wider combustion chambers than the f pistons when calculating comp ratio. the bigger stroke will definately help the spool also. and the higher compression the quicker the spool, but you cant boost as much safely. also the f23 has stronger pistons than the h22. ive read about a guy boosting 18 psi on his f23 block as a daily driver.dudes block was stock, thinkin it was a g23vtec if i remember correctly. i wouldnt beat on it a lot though. if you just wanna boost 20 psi there is really no reason that i see to change pistons, maybe rods if you are going over 500hp, and if you wanna be safe then throw in some head studs and run some blue devil through the cooling system and give it plenty of fuel. as cheap as f series blocks can be had might as well see what a stock one will take, then spend the money if you got to on a fully built block. until then save some cash for turbo parts and stiff springs so you can kill the wheel hop.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:08 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

F23: $800
Pistons (with rings): $550
Rods: $300
Turbo manifold: $100
Turbo: $850
Intercooler: $220
Intercooler piping: $100?
Oil lines: $100?
Boost controler/gauge: $275
Wastegate: $250
Gator axles: $500
Map sensor: $100
Afr gague: $200
Oil pressure gague: $150
Stage 3 Clutch: $400?
Fuel pump: $150
Downpipe: $200?
Blow off valve: $200
Tune: $300
Hone: $150
Fuel Rail: $120
Injectors: $400
ECU: $175
Intake manifold: $350
Ballance shaft eliminator: $125
ARP Head studs: $110
h23 manual tensioner: $140
Throttle body: $200
Water pump: $60
Head gasket: $50
civic radiator: $100
engine mounts: $325
f22a1 water pipe: $50?
oil pump: $120
OEM Seals: $300?
LSD: $1,000
Traction bar: $150
Bearings: $100?

This is the list for the stuff I am going to have with this build... I think 20 psi from a gt35r will be enough to warrant forged pistons and rods plus I want to have a set up where I can push it more if I want to. And I had a computer do all of the compression calculations so they are right on

I would not rev my g23 with the stroke ratio of 1.43:1 I think the pistons would be moving too fast at 8000 rpms and it would eventually ruin the motor.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:39 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Originally Posted by keeganhmorgan View Post
F23: $800
Pistons (with rings): $550
Rods: $300
Turbo manifold: $100
Turbo: $850
Intercooler: $220
Intercooler piping: $100?
Oil lines: $100?
Boost controler/gauge: $275
Wastegate: $250
Gator axles: $500
Map sensor: $100
Afr gague: $200
Oil pressure gague: $150
Stage 3 Clutch: $400?
Fuel pump: $150
Downpipe: $200?
Blow off valve: $200
Tune: $300
Hone: $150
Fuel Rail: $120
Injectors: $400
ECU: $175
Intake manifold: $350
Ballance shaft eliminator: $125
ARP Head studs: $110
h23 manual tensioner: $140
Throttle body: $200
Water pump: $60
Head gasket: $50
civic radiator: $100
engine mounts: $325
f22a1 water pipe: $50?
oil pump: $120
OEM Seals: $300?
LSD: $1,000
Traction bar: $150
Bearings: $100?

This is the list for the stuff I am going to have with this build... I think 20 psi from a gt35r will be enough to warrant forged pistons and rods plus I want to have a set up where I can push it more if I want to. And I had a computer do all of the compression calculations so they are right on

I would not rev my g23 with the stroke ratio of 1.43:1 I think the pistons would be moving too fast at 8000 rpms and it would eventually ruin the motor.
considering that the h22 came in your car this is what you will need out of that list

F23: $150-200(go to the junkyard-98 accord)
Pistons (with rings): $550(im gonna stay on the stockies and maybe get rods)
Rods: $300
Turbo manifold: 60-200 bux on ebay
Turbo: $850(or get one off of a 86.5 to 92 supra for probably 100 bux at the junk yard)
Intercooler: $50
Intercooler piping: $50
Oil lines: $20
Boost controler/gauge: $275
Wastegate: $250
Gator axles: $500-dont need unless you are after massive power and rollin on slicks.
Map sensor: $10(go to junkyard)
Afr gague: $40(autozone)
Oil pressure gague: $25(autozone)
Stage 3 Clutch: $400( i had my stock clutch holding about 280 hp pretty good for a while but didnt get it to the track till it was burnt, still wasnt too bad. just get the $200 ebay 6 puck)
Fuel pump: $150
Downpipe: $20(make one at exhaust shop)
Blow off valve: $200
Tune: $300
Hone: buy hone tool and drill and diy it.
Fuel Rail: wont need stock is good for like 600hp i read
Injectors: $400
ECU: $175
Intake manifold: $350(you should have one on your h series, modify the inside of it blacktrax style only completely remove dividers as far down as possible)
Ballance shaft eliminator: $25(there is a diy for this online for cheaper than the kit)
ARP Head studs: $110
h23 manual tensioner: (manual tensioner comes on the f23 block)
Throttle body: stock one is plenty good when boosting
Water pump: wont cost if its on your f block and you have one on the h block, just swap the pulleys
Head gasket: i reused my f23 headgasket, didnt even copper coat it. worked like a charm. good seal.
civic radiator: $100
engine mounts: $20(junkyard)
OEM Seals: $300( you can buy a gasket kit for a lot cheaper than 300 bux. if your factory parts are in good shape re use what you can and buy rtv for the rest.
LSD: $1,000
Traction bar: $150
Bearings: $100?

you can go cheap on a lot more than you think and save yourself a **** ton and still be reliable. no reason to dump thousands if you are only after 400 hp.
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:01 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Originally Posted by greenmachineG23 View Post
considering that the h22 came in your car this is what you will need out of that list

F23: $150-200(go to the junkyard-98 accord)
I don't know if my junk yard will have one, But i should check the junkyard for one.
Pistons (with rings): $550(im gonna stay on the stockies and maybe get rods)
I want the forged pistons because I might wanna turn up the boost and run even more power.
Turbo manifold: 60-200 bux on ebay
Turbo: $850(or get one off of a 86.5 to 92 supra for probably 100 bux at the junk yard)
I want a new turbo and I want a dual ball bearing turbo, no junk yard turbo for me.
Gator axles: $500-dont need unless you are after massive power and rollin on slicks.
I plan on having a set of slicks for it, this car is not going to be a daily driver.
Map sensor: $10(go to junkyard)
What vehicles in the junk yard have a 3 bar map sensor?
Afr gague: $40(autozone)
Oil pressure gague: $25(autozone)
I want digital gauges not analog gauges.
Stage 3 Clutch: $400( i had my stock clutch holding about 280 hp pretty good for a while but didnt get it to the track till it was burnt, still wasnt too bad. just get the $200 ebay 6 puck)
I am definitely going to want to have a stage 2 or stage 3 clutch
Downpipe: $20(make one at exhaust shop)
I think it will cost a little more than that for me.
Hone: buy hone tool and drill and diy it.
That was for a bore and hone, I am boring the cylinders .5mm so that I have a perfectly round cylinder and this is one thing I will leave to the pros.
Fuel Rail: wont need stock is good for like 600hp i read
I just want the added relieve of an AEM fuel rail.
Intake manifold: $350(you should have one on your h series, modify the inside of it blacktrax style only completely remove dividers as far down as possible)
I want a skunk2 im because it is a one piece IM and I want no chances of a intake leak.
Ballance shaft eliminator: $25(there is a diy for this online for cheaper than the kit)
Will have to check that out.
h23 manual tensioner: (manual tensioner comes on the f23 block)
I didn't know that thanks for the information.
Throttle body: stock one is plenty good when boosting
gonna want to upgrade it while I am upgrading the IM
Water pump: wont cost if its on your f block and you have one on the h block, just swap the pulleys
I am going to want a new water pump for reliability
Head gasket: i reused my f23 headgasket, didnt even copper coat it. worked like a charm. good seal.
That is good for you I am not going to do that though lol
engine mounts: $20(junkyard)
I am getting performance mounts to help with wheel hop as much as possible.
OEM Seals: $300( you can buy a gasket kit for a lot cheaper than 300 bux. if your factory parts are in good shape re use what you can and buy rtv for the rest.
I don't like buying cheap parts, I am going to get OEM seals and gaskets from honda all the time.

you can go cheap on a lot more than you think and save yourself a **** ton and still be reliable. no reason to dump thousands if you are only after 400 hp.
Answers in red. The only problem is that this is not a budget build, and I want it to be a reliable beast that will last.
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:24 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

i see. you can get the zoom clutch for 280 bux at advance, but its not a lot better than stock, but is better still(carbon and kevlar) held good for me. took a lot of races.
find a pontiac grand prix 88-96 should have a 3 bar map sensor i think.
on the downpipe...i had my entire 2.5" exhaust from header all the way out to my muffler fabricated at a local exhaust shop for 60 bux out the door and got to watch him make it.
as far as wheel hop is concerned the traction bar and stiff suspension will take care of that completely. did for me. you will need the drivers side engine mount for an f22(the part bolted to the block. or you mightcan use the upper part from the 98 accord with the f23 lower, the h22 mount will not fit the f23 block
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:38 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

Yeah I would rather only do the clutch job once so I am going to get a clutch that I trust :) I would rather go with a new map sensor than using a used one, Maybe I will get the downpipe for cheaper than i thought, i have read about that engine mount and know I cant use the h22 one.
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Seriously...wtf is up with your roads?
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:03 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

yeah, i didnt know about that engine mount till i got to it. lol. still running with one bolt. but it works for now i guess. went to the junkyatd today to find one. wore myself out and gave up on the first one i found.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:05 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

i hope you do this and turn it up to about 35 psi. id like to see numbers above 800hp come from one of these.
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:55 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

jesus i hope you go thru with this, would love to see it!


that's awesome, cuz a 35r @ 20psi on an STi puts down 400whp/390wtq, that would be awesome if it puts down close to the same on an H22..... errrrr G23 haha
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:21 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

so have you decided on what compression you are going to run? No knock against other VTEC motors that have made power on stock compression, but i don't see the point in turboing a high compression motor. Since you want this to be a beast, I'd say go low compression that way you can boost at a good, if not better amount than high compression. Reliability is key since you are going to be spending money and time in the build but good luck.
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:44 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Originally Posted by greenmachineG23 View Post
i hope you do this and turn it up to about 35 psi. id like to see numbers above 800hp come from one of these.
At 800 horse I would have no traction, my whole goal with this is to have as much horsepower as I can with the car still being somewhat reliable and still being able to put the power to the ground, no sense in 800 hp on a fwd car in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
jesus i hope you go thru with this, would love to see it!


that's awesome, cuz a 35r @ 20psi on an STi puts down 400whp/390wtq, that would be awesome if it puts down close to the same on an H22..... errrrr G23 haha
Yeah my goal is about 400whp, I could see it putting down 400 because its fwd not awd so there is less drive train loss

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Originally Posted by gchampaninh View Post
so have you decided on what compression you are going to run? No knock against other VTEC motors that have made power on stock compression, but i don't see the point in turboing a high compression motor. Since you want this to be a beast, I'd say go low compression that way you can boost at a good, if not better amount than high compression. Reliability is key since you are going to be spending money and time in the build but good luck.
I am going to try to get the compression as close to 9.3:1 as I can, yeah I am excited to start this up but this project probably wont really get going until probably late this fall or early this winter.
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:09 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

I don't know if I should sleeve the block, I read that after boring it out 1mm the block only had like .6mm left of iron. I am only going to bore mine out .5mm but that still only leaves me with like .85mm (I am quite possibly wrong) of iron left right? Is that enough iron to be safe with while boosting 20+ psi?
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:20 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Originally Posted by gchampaninh View Post
so have you decided on what compression you are going to run? No knock against other VTEC motors that have made power on stock compression, but i don't see the point in turboing a high compression motor. Since you want this to be a beast, I'd say go low compression that way you can boost at a good, if not better amount than high compression. Reliability is key since you are going to be spending money and time in the build but good luck.


you don't see the point in making a crazy amount of HP, and having the best of both worlds with great low end power before the turbo starts spooling up as well as even more power once it is spooling??
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2000 Acura TL; DD
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Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 06-11-2011, 04:17 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

wow.. damn, im excited and its not even my build def. gonna follow this thread closely. im learning some new stuff along the way too, even if its lil things like the manual tensioner on the f23. lol wish u the best of luck with this one bro. and i def. gotta come see this in person once the project is started lol
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:45 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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wow.. damn, im excited and its not even my build def. gonna follow this thread closely. im learning some new stuff along the way too, even if its lil things like the manual tensioner on the f23. lol wish u the best of luck with this one bro. and i def. gotta come see this in person once the project is started lol
Don't get too ahead of yourself here, hopefully I can get the motor out sometime this week and find out what is wrong with it, I am kinda hoping I can just easily fix this motor rather that going with the g23 build because I would probably have to buy another car to drive while I am building the g23 motor.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:31 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

^^ lol i feel u.. i got too excited about another build there for a min. have u decided what ur gonna do? idk if u had a chance to pull ur new motor out again and see if its an easy fix.
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:45 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
you don't see the point in making a crazy amount of HP, and having the best of both worlds with great low end power before the turbo starts spooling up as well as even more power once it is spooling??
i know tuning has helped a lot, but for reliability sake i'd lower the compression and still retain VTEC. I take it you drive an STI which has low compression from factory, making it a reliable turbo car. I like vtec, turbo, and reliability, if i were to have the best of 3 worlds i'd start by lowering compression for added safety, is all i'm saying.

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Old 06-21-2011, 03:13 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Originally Posted by gchampaninh View Post
i know tuning has helped a lot, but for reliability sake i'd lower the compression and still retain VTEC. I take it you drive an STI which has low compression from factory, making it a reliable turbo car. I like vtec, turbo, and reliability, if i were to have the best of 3 worlds i'd start by lowering compression for added safety, is all i'm saying.
I take it you don't know very much? Yes he drives an STi but he also had a really tight turbo 4g prelude, he knows what he is talking about. There is no problem in turboing a 10:1 car.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:02 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

sure you can say i dont know very much, but i do know that most factory turbo cars come out with low compression motors. i've stated it before, high compression turbo can be done, can be reliable, but for extra reliability, i'd lower compression and potentially make more power by upping the boost, but that's just me. k23a1 comes to mind.

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Old 06-22-2011, 03:04 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Originally Posted by gchampaninh View Post
sure you can say i dont know very much, but i do know that most factory turbo cars come out with low compression motors. i've stated it before, high compression turbo can be done, can be reliable, but for extra reliability, i'd lower compression and potentially make more power by upping the boost, but that's just me. k23a1 comes to mind.
Do you understand how anything works? If you have a 10:1 cr motor that means you are making more hp before the turbo spools, you are spooling the turbo faster, and you are making more power with less boost then if you have a 9:1 cr motor. You can have a perfectly reliable 10:1 cr turbo motor as long as you get a good tune which you would need with a low comp motor also. The only reason you would be able to "potentially make more power" with a low comp motor is if everything was forged and nothing was forged in the high comp motor, if both motors have the same internals you have the same capabilities for power and you will have a better power curve with the higher comp motor.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:10 PM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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sure you can say i dont know very much, but i do know that most factory turbo cars come out with low compression motors.
Yes this is true, and everything is perfect from the factory right? There is no way to improve any car after you get it from the factory.

Oh wait I lied...



Stock motor, I am pretty sure that is like 11:1 cr someone correct me if I am wrong. Yeah I really don't see why you would turbo a high cr motor! Dumb@$$
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Old 06-23-2011, 01:16 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

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Yes this is true, and everything is perfect from the factory right? There is no way to improve any car after you get it from the factory.

Oh wait I lied...



Stock motor, I am pretty sure that is like 11:1 cr someone correct me if I am wrong. Yeah I really don't see why you would turbo a high cr motor! Dumb@$$
that thing is a freakin monster! ya ur right keegan its the AP1 w/ the f20c 11:1 cr and its pushing 23psi?! damn, i wonder how much longer that rear diff. and tranny will last..since the description said they're stock. either way, that **** is fast and sounds really healthy! lol
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:36 AM
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Re: G23/Boost questions

i was done with this 5 days ago but since you're posting videos of one case example, you forgot to add a few things about this s2kfromhell. 701 on the dyno not streetable, detuned back to 500 whp, great #'s for the streets i might add, but you left out one thing. They had a block resleeved from golden eagle installed after that video, now i ask why would they resleeve the block if they were able to obtain 700whp? maybe for extra reliability? did they resleeve so they can runner higher compression? i dont know since i dont know much according to you, but now lets get on with the fact postings, Shelby SSC ultimate Aero 1287 bhp, 1127 lbs./ft twin turbo on 91 octane, running 8.975:1 compression ratio, Bugatti Veyron Super Sport fastest production car in the world 1183HP, 1106 ft/lbs running 8.3:1 compression ratio. back to my original point, if i were to boost my vtec motor, i'd lower the compression for added reliability, THAT's JUST ME, though. just because i have less than 200 post doesnt mean i dont know much, been in the game since 98' which is why i'm still old school on my thoughts of running boost. you even said so yourself about lowering the comp ratio for added safety, which was my point from the beginning, lower comp for added reliablity.

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