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boosting g23

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:13 PM
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boosting g23

i have some questions,i have a g23 and a garrett .60 ar turbo with .63 turbine, all i have left to buy at the moment is a manifold, and an i/c kit and blow off valve. i have cromefree on my laptop, been working with it but i think im gonna stay obd2. question is...has anyone on here just retarded their timing accordingly on the dizzy, and popped in some injectors to match their power goals and adjusted the boost so that the a/f ratio is about right on the gauge? wouldnt this be an adequate substitue for a tune? this is what you would do on a carbed motor, they are about the same except fuel injected have a jet for every cylinder instead of just at the carb.
if i was running turbo wouldnt this be an adequate method? retard my timing 2 degrees and put some 440's in there, adjust the boost pressure until its in the ideal range and run it? thats basically what you do with nitrous, and thats just boost in a bottle. wouldnt that work?
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:56 AM
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Re: boosting g23

any takers on this question? anyone running like this?
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:27 AM
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Re: boosting g23

no, that's the ghetto form of tuning, and that's hardly considered a tune at all.

a real tune would adjust the timing, AFR, fuel trims, IDC's, etc across the entire powerband under diff load conditions, etc. simply retarding the timing @ idle does not correctly adjust everything else @ 7800rpm for example.


if you really care about your motor, buying a chipped ECU for $120 will save you thousands of headaches.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:09 PM
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Re: boosting g23

maybe so. but say i went with 5 psi and a wet 75 shot. on 110 octane shouldnt the stock tune be sufficent to keep from detonating?
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:38 PM
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Re: boosting g23

Nobody here runs that set up, your the first.

You'll have to wait for more of the engine junkies to chime in and give you their two cents.

Good luck though, let us know how it turns out. :D
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:00 PM
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Re: boosting g23

thanks. im planning to put the turbo on running low boost of about 5 psi, jsut for a little extra kick and upgrade a little at a time instead of all at once. i'll keep ya'll posted. but not this thursday but next im ordering a manifold and anything else i might need for 5 psi and i'll build up from there.
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:16 PM
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Re: boosting g23

Do you have the head built?
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:43 PM
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Re: boosting g23

no, the head is stock except for being milled .20
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:36 PM
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Re: boosting g23

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Originally Posted by greenmachineG23 View Post
no, the head is stock except for being milled .20
Not sure but I believe you mean .02? Why would you wanna stay OBD2 rather than upgrading to OBD1?
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:02 PM
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Re: boosting g23

Are the f23 blocks closed deck? If the bottom and head are stock i wouldnt to to crazy on boost and N2O at the same time. I dont think nitrous is gonna be safe. Thats my opinion though. Maybe with a really good dyno tune. Good luck. Why did you have to rebuild ur motor and make this frakenstein if u dont mind? Im building a H23 block with h22 head for my fifth gen. Its built up pretty good. Not sure if im going turbo though.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:24 PM
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Re: boosting g23

Sounds like a recipe for disaster
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:13 PM
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Re: boosting g23

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Sounds like a recipe for disaster
I agree with this statement.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:16 AM
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Re: boosting g23

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Originally Posted by BRSoll1484 View Post
Are the f23 blocks closed deck? If the bottom and head are stock i wouldnt to to crazy on boost and N2O at the same time. I dont think nitrous is gonna be safe. Thats my opinion though. Maybe with a really good dyno tune. Good luck. Why did you have to rebuild ur motor and make this frakenstein if u dont mind? Im building a H23 block with h22 head for my fifth gen. Its built up pretty good. Not sure if im going turbo though.
no the f23a1 block is open deck. but its sturdier than the h22 bottom end from what ive read. i sprayed 75 shot on the h22 all the time with no problems. the reason i had to build a frankenstien is i wound the h22 up to about 8500 on accident and spun a bearing. old motor had about 200,000 on it though, this block has about 60,000 and is in great shape.
5 psi and a wet 75 shot should be fine. theres a guy on the internet running 18 psi on a stock f23 bottom end. so it should be no big deal. the worst that could happen is i have to change the engine again. and i got a free h22 that runs the other day,just gotta go to mississippi and get it. and i have another car so this doesnt have to be a daily driver.

and yes i meant twenty thousandths on the head mill.

the reason i might stay obd2 is because there is always the aem f/ic if i need a tune. but i could do a sufficient job with ghetto tune for full throttle pulls at the strip by adjusting the dizzy and getting proper fuel supply upgrades. while the computer does add timing as rpms and load increase if you retard timing at dizzy 2* wouldnt that retard it 2* across the board? seems to me that if this is the case then it wouldn't be necessary to chang it in the computer. and if you have properly sized injectors you should be able to get the a/f about right. the only thing that really sways me toward obd 1 is in crome i can set vtec engagement point and right now its about 5600 on the stock tach. i know i can do that with the afc but you cant adjust fuel and timing independently with it and to run the aem f/ic i would need something else for vtec control, unless its built in. i cant remember.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:47 PM
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Re: boosting g23

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Originally Posted by greenmachineG23 View Post
no the f23a1 block is open deck. but its sturdier than the h22 bottom end from what ive read. i sprayed 75 shot on the h22 all the time with no problems. the reason i had to build a frankenstien is i wound the h22 up to about 8500 on accident and spun a bearing. old motor had about 200,000 on it though, this block has about 60,000 and is in great shape.
5 psi and a wet 75 shot should be fine. theres a guy on the internet running 18 psi on a stock f23 bottom end. so it should be no big deal. the worst that could happen is i have to change the engine again. and i got a free h22 that runs the other day,just gotta go to mississippi and get it. and i have another car so this doesnt have to be a daily driver.

and yes i meant twenty thousandths on the head mill.

the reason i might stay obd2 is because there is always the aem f/ic if i need a tune. but i could do a sufficient job with ghetto tune for full throttle pulls at the strip by adjusting the dizzy and getting proper fuel supply upgrades. while the computer does add timing as rpms and load increase if you retard timing at dizzy 2* wouldnt that retard it 2* across the board? seems to me that if this is the case then it wouldn't be necessary to chang it in the computer. and if you have properly sized injectors you should be able to get the a/f about right. the only thing that really sways me toward obd 1 is in crome i can set vtec engagement point and right now its about 5600 on the stock tach. i know i can do that with the afc but you cant adjust fuel and timing independently with it and to run the aem f/ic i would need something else for vtec control, unless its built in. i cant remember.
Hey man I say do whatever you want really, but if I were going to do this I would deff go to OBD1 and get a legit tune not only so that it runs better but also so that you can see the full potential of the build. Also with a tune it will change the timing and fuel for when you spray also... Converting to OBD1 isn't that hard and it is pretty cheap also, just consider going OBD1, your car will last longer and have more power with a good tune
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:09 AM
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Re: boosting g23

its still under consideration. but what i dont understand is how to get the tune onto the chip live with the car running. seems difficult. its a lot easier to be a mechanic than to be a tuner.im good with computers but seems like a lengthy process. longer than formatting, reinstalling windows, and then hunting down missing drivers on the net. and it looks worse than that to me from what ive read. plus i need a chip burner, and that other deal. and just too much stuff to buy. ive heard everything from "my tune was free" to "it will cost you about 800 bux to get a good tune" i cant afford that.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:41 AM
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Re: boosting g23

from what i understand (and i am FARRRRR from a tuner, it's what i understand the least in cars) is that you burn a rom/chip from your computer, install the chip into the ECU but NOT WITH THE CAR RUNNING!
then install ECU in car and start it up.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:52 AM
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Re: boosting g23

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Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
from what i understand (and i am FARRRRR from a tuner, it's what i understand the least in cars) is that you burn a rom/chip from your computer, install the chip into the ECU but NOT WITH THE CAR RUNNING!
then install ECU in car and start it up.
yeah but in that case how do you know if it is right before you put it back in the ecu? just guess and check? seems like i might as well shoot arrows in the dark and be untuned. i need something i can tune on the go, at the track, and not pay 1500 bux for an aem ems.
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:26 PM
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Re: boosting g23

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Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
from what i understand (and i am FARRRRR from a tuner, it's what i understand the least in cars) is that you burn a rom/chip from your computer, install the chip into the ECU but NOT WITH THE CAR RUNNING!
then install ECU in car and start it up.
Not quite (I know how but I don't know all the technical terms so don't hate lol), you take out the chip, you plug something from your computer into where the chip was, and your new rewritable chip into the computer also, you find a basemap with the program you are using (or you an create your own basemap) then you start up the car let it warm up and tune the afr on idle, then you drive it for a while tuning the afr, then when you get it on the dyno you tune the timing then the afr again. most good tuners can do the timing on the street by listening to the motor, and looking at the spark plugs I think? lol thats the basics of tuning an OBD1 car.
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Old 05-25-2011, 07:28 PM
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Re: boosting g23

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Originally Posted by greenmachineG23 View Post
its still under consideration. but what i dont understand is how to get the tune onto the chip live with the car running. seems difficult. its a lot easier to be a mechanic than to be a tuner.im good with computers but seems like a lengthy process. longer than formatting, reinstalling windows, and then hunting down missing drivers on the net. and it looks worse than that to me from what ive read. plus i need a chip burner, and that other deal. and just too much stuff to buy. ive heard everything from "my tune was free" to "it will cost you about 800 bux to get a good tune" i cant afford that.
If you have someone else tune your car (which I highly recommend) then they will have the wideband, the chip burner, the rewriteable chip and pretty much everything you need and it should only cost you like $300 for a good tune... Just call around and find you local tuners ask what you will need and how much its gonna cost
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:04 PM
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Re: boosting g23

ok cool man. but if i had that setup then i could probably dial the afr and tune one a track
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:38 AM
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Re: boosting g23

I would let a professional do the tuning, because it will probably cost you right about the same amount of money for you to buy all the stuff for a tune as it will for a professional to do the tune for you because they already have all the equipment.

But if you are even considering tuning a vehicle yourself read this whole thread... more than once! Beginners journey: Intro to Tuning - INDEXED!!! - Honda Prelude Forum : Honda Prelude Forums
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2011, 07:29 AM
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Re: boosting g23

didnt read this whole thread but wat i did read sounds like a terrible idea man just let it up to the pros dont try to tune your own car it just doesnt work in almost all cases
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:04 AM
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Re: boosting g23

cool. yea i am a do it yourselfer, always have been. probably will do it myself. i came across a blown up gsx today with a ramhorn and a huge turbo and fmic with 2.5" piping. probably gonna trade for the car and use all the parts and then scrap the car. had an apexi boost controller and a few other gauges in it, could use the injectors and OZ wheels too. looks like the turbo is 8 or ten inches wide. its rediculously big,also has a 2.5" downpipe. idlike to make some massive power with this setup, just wanna see what it can handle.
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:09 AM
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Re: boosting g23

well ive been off here for a couple of days but i have new plans. gonna have a custom manifold made. sticking with the garret .60 / .63 and im gonna run an extra set of injectors with a hobbs switch. one per injector so delivery increases with boost. i have a fuel rail and injectors from a 98 accord im adding. then im gonna retard the dizzy timing about 2* and boost about ten psi. putting it together this weekend most likely before track time. think this will work? also has anyone ever ran their vtec with a rpm based switch? like a window switch?
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