So, you wanna go turbo, huh?

twokexlv6coupe · #1 (**permalink**) 07-25-2007, 01:36 AM

Let me just say this first and foremost: If you are too lazy to read this article and dont feel like doing any research about turbo'ing your car, then you throw a turbo on... Karma will come back to haunt you

oh yea and.... I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING YOU DO TO YOUR CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunatly, going turbo isn't just a bolt-on and go affair. That is how people blow their motors. It requires A LOT of research, patience, and yes, even some down-time of your car.
This will be a brief walk-thru introduction of the in's and out's of turbocharging.

To get an idea, go to http://turbokits.com/prelude_turbo_kits.html to see the majority of what is needed in a turbo kit. These kits can be a bit pricey, and sometimes wont come with absolutely everything to run the car RELIABLY, or sometimes will come with extra stuff that you dont need. IF you have alotta money (i know not alot of us do

) you can simply buy the entire kit, pay someone to install it, and your good to go. But I feel you dont learn nearly as much going this route, and if something goes wrong on the car, you dont know what it is or could possibly be.

ON THE OTHER HANDDD you could piece together your own kit which not only is mostly always cheaper, but you can get EXACTLY what you want. Sure it takes longer to get everything together, but is worth it in the end IMO

You get to learn exactly what your buying and how it works.

What you'll need:

Turbocharger:
There are hundreds of types and sizes of turbo's. 14b's, 16g's, t3's, t4's, t3/t4 hybrids, gt35's, blowzilla's, etc etc. The bigger the turbo, the more power you can make, but will take longer to spool up. Contrary, smaller turbos will spool faster, but can't make as much power. A VERY popular type of turbo for mostly all Honda's are T3/T4 hybrids which are good from anywhere from 200-500hp. The most popular brands of turbos are Garrett, Turbonetics, and Precision.
There are also PLENTY of cheap knock-off/replica turbos floating around ebay made in China (no offense) which have been known to create EXTREMELYYY heated arguements over on H-T, but thats another story. The success rate with these turbos is right around 50%. 1/2 the people swear by them for years on end, while others crap out on them on the first start up.

Manifold:
Many types of designs: log, tubular, ramhorn, top mount, mini-me, sidewinder... Log mani's are cheap, and good to around 300hp because they don't flow as well as ramhorns or topmounts, which are much costlier.
Some manifold companies to look at:
Hermsfab
Spoolin Performance
South Florida Performance
JGS Tools
plus many many more, just search around for a bit. Some will only have one flange for the turbo, while others will also have a flange for an external wastegate. If your turbo doesn't have an internal wastegate, you need a manifold that has an external wastegate flange.

The other thing you have to worry about when picking manifolds is A/C and/or P/S compatible. Mostly all ramhorn and top mount mani's ARE NOT AC OR PS COMPATIBLE!!!! just something to keep in mind

Wastegate:
This is what regulates the boost. Once the engine is pushing a certain pressure (determined by you) of exhaust gas, a diaphram opens and expels the excess air out the wastegate. There are either internal (which are attached directly to the turbo) or external (mount to the manifold). Popular EXTERNAL brands are Tial, Greddy, Deltagate, etc. You can get these everywhere. There are some knockoff wastegates, but if you feel like gambling the life on your engine over a $150 wastegate... your loss.

Blow off valve:
sssssssssss PPSSSSSHHHHHH This expels the excess air in the piping when you let off the throttle. MANY choices here. Tial, HKS, Greddy, Turbo XS, even some ebay knockoffs work. You can hear sound clips all over the net to determine which sound you like the best.

Intercooler:
Cools the air coming from the turbo into the engine. Cooler air = denser air = able to cram more air AND fuel into the cylinders, creating MOREE POWER!! These aren't necessary, but not only do they look ballin

, they help protect your engine by keeping the IAT's (intake air temperatures) down, and they make more power. There are traditional front mount intercoolers, or side mounts which were used in DSM's, volvo's, mitsubishis, etc. Ebay intercoolers are fine for low boost applications, but once you start pushing some serious power, Precision, Johnny Racecar, and Spearco's are known for flowing better and cooling better.

Intercooler Piping:
Goes from the turbo to the IC inlet, then from the IC outlet to the throttle body, with the BOV mounted anywhere you please between the outlet and TB.

Injectors:
If your throwing more air into the cylinders, you need to also throw more fuel in which is where bigger injectors come into play. There are injectors ranging from 280cc to like.... 1200cc. The size will be determined by how much power you are looking to make.

Downpipe/Dumptube:
Expels the used exhaust gases from the turbo out the exhaust. Sometimes if you order a custom manifold, the maker can make a downpipe specifically for your car, since every manifold places the turbo at a different position, all of them needing different downpipes.
The dumptube is only needed with an external wastegate, and it expels the air from out of the WG. you can either reroute the dumptube into the downpipe which is much quieter, but if its not done right could disturb the airflow of the gases in the downpipe, loosing some power. OR you could have an open dumptube which creates more power, but is louder.

Fuel Pump:
You need to pump more fuel into the injectors, dont ya?? Your only choice is an intank walbro 255lph pump.

Oil Lines:
Need to keep that turbo lubricated dont ya?? we all love lub!!!! The easiest way to route the feed line is off the stock oil pressure sensor on the back of the block, up to a Tee fitting where the pressure sensor goes, the feed line to the turbo, and an oil pressure sender if you have an oil pressure gauge.
The return line simply attaches to the bottom of the turbo, down to a fitting welded onto the oil pan.
By far the EASIEST solution for oil lines is to go to stealthmodeperformance.com and get their oil line kit. Direct plug and play.

ENGINE MANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By FARR the most important aspect of your turbo setup. The cheapest and by far least reliable solution is to get a Fuel Management Unit (FMU) which rises the pressure of the fuel for every pound of boost. VERY unreliable... just dont get it!!
Your other option is to get a chipped ECU, either from www.phearable.net, www.xenocron.com, or other places. This new ECU should hopefully come with a basemap which SHOULD allow you to drive your car VERY CAREFULLY to a competent tuner who will tune your car SO IT DOESN'T BLOW UP!!!
Lastly, there is a complete standalone engine management systems like AEM EMS, Hondata s300, Uberdata, etc, which are the most expensive, but are superior tuning
I cannot emphasis enough how important it is to get your car tuned.

MAP sensors:
aka, Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor. The stock one is good for about 11-12 psi, but anything above that will require a 2 or 3 bar MAP sensor. Popular choices are GM and Motorola sensors.

Turbo Intake:
If you have absolutely NO room to run a filter at all, you could use some window screening with a t-bolt clamp securing it to the turbo. You surely wouldn't wanna suck that thing in

. Depending on how wide the screening is, you might wanna double up on it.
If you can run a filter, AEM/K&N dry filters have been known to make the most power, with no filter making less power, window screening even less, and those fluffy/foamy filters making the least amount of power, by far.

Fuel Rail:
The sure do look bling-bling, but the stockies are good for around ~600hp.

Gauges:
Boost, oil pressure, oil temp, EGT, narrow/wideband o2 sensor, fuel pressure, water temp.
you dont need all of these. the most common ones are boost, oil press, egt, and an o2/AFR gauge

Misc:
vaccum lines, gaskets, bolts, flanges, silicon connectors and clamps

By no means is this everything you need to know. There are thousands of thousands of other sites so you can learn and research more about this entire endeavor of yours. Some of the sites that helped me the most about learning all this are:
www.honda-tech.com
www.superhonda.com
www.homemadeturbo.com
www.cb7tuner.com
www.pgmfi.org
www.phearable.net
www.howstuffworks.com
to name a few

More Threads:

TURBO vs SUPER chargers!!!
http://www.preludezone.com/showthrea...ighlight=turbo
What is turbo? What is a super charger?
So what better Turbo or Supercharger?
Supercharger Or Turbo What Mods?
Turbo or Supercharger Vs law in USA?
Supercharger or Turbo?
supercharged and turbo..together
Supercharged or Turbo charged! Help

Using an old/used/stock turbo:
volvo turbo? lol
audi a4 turbo

DSM setups:
Turbo-ing? please help UBER NOOB
Marshall's official Turbo F22a thread
DSM turbo on H22a
14b DSM turbo

Building a motor for boost:
Turbo parts list, feedback
Turbo???
Turbo parts query

WHY PSI DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING!!!!!!
h22 turbo list

Typical costs of boost/Parts List:
Thinking to go turbo
Turbo Time

Turbo calculator:
Turbo Calc

Turbo'ing an automatic:
:cool2: Thinkin turbo
auto tranny with a turbo?
turbo and tiptronic??
lots of turbo questions

Knock-off/Ebay turbo's:
found this... it seems affordable
Using an Ebay turbo-kit as a base

Sleeving the H-series:
Turbo

Boosting a 3rd Gen:
Turbo???
I think i found a turbo manifold
H22a or turbo b20a7?
looking to buy a turbo kit for b20a5
H22 swap or Turbo b20????
turbo kit
Garret Turbo...
Need a turbo manifold for a B21A1

EVERYTHING you could EVER want to know about ANYTHING for boots!!
help turbo

A good size turbo for H22/H23:
turbo

Important Gauges:
Top 3 things to monitor on your turbo

A kit vs piecing together yourself:
turbo kit

Prelude13 · #2 (**permalink**) 07-25-2007, 12:36 PM

~~Great thread~~

I have to come see your Prelude again, it's about time i see your turbo sikness lol!

Si Speed · #3 (**permalink**) 07-25-2007, 02:55 PM

This is going in the 5g resouce thread.

bLatantLude22 · #4 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 06:39 AM

im not even going the turbo route but had a good read, the extra knowledge cant hurt :) thanks for the info. ill actually send this to some friends who are planning on using turbo and i know itll help.

RJones411 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-07-2007, 10:43 AM

should i go turbo or supercharger for my 97 prelude SH

rheakpl · #6 (**permalink**) 08-07-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLatantLude22

im not even going the turbo route but had a good read, the extra knowledge cant hurt :) thanks for the info. ill actually send this to some friends who are planning on using turbo and i know itll help.

totally...good brief read to get me intro-ed to this fi world....
maybe on the next car hya..

InvaderTrax · #7 (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 02:00 AM

Helped me out a little for the near future

twokexlv6coupe · #8 (**permalink**) 09-11-2007, 08:40 PM

i found this AWESOMEE comparison for all the commonly used turbos that compares their sizes, power ratings, etc etc from http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=334746

"Garrett turbo FAMILY sizes
T25 < T28 < T3 < T04 (T04B < T04E < TA45)

Garrett GT-series FAMILY sizes
GT25 < GT28 < GT30 < GT35 < GT40 < GT42/45

Mitsubishi turbo FAMILY sizes
TD04 < TD05 < TD06 < T67 (hybrid TD07 and TD06) < TD07 < T78 (hybrid TD08 and TD07) < T88 (or TD08)

Garrett T04B (compressor) models
S-trim < V-trim < H-trim < 60-1 (Turbonetics calls it a T04B family, although others call it a T04E family)

Garrett T04E (compressor) models
"46" trim < "50" trim < "57" trim < "60" trim

Turbonetics (compressor) models
T58 (TS04) < T61 < T64 < T66 < T70 < T72 < T76

Now that you're thoroughly confused, other manufacturers use different nomenclature for their turbo models. There seems to be a current trend to use compressor wheel (major) diameter for turbo (compressor) models. Thus, a "PT67" is a 67mm compressor wheel, but it's supposed to be the same size as a Turbonetics T66 - go figure.

Then there's the HKS stuff, which they like to make their own models names - T04S (not to be confused with the TS04), T04R, T04Z, T51R (the T51R Kai series is based on a Garrertt GT42).

It's very hard to compare turbos across different manufacturers.
Just to give a loose idea of specific turbo capabilities...

Garrett T04B V-trim - 300hp
Garrett T04B H-trim - 350hp
Garrett T04B 60-1 - 400hp
Garrett T04E "60" trim - 400hp
Garrett GT3540 (GT35 turbine / GT40 compressor hybrid, BB center) - 400hp
Garrett GT40 - 500hp
Garrett GT42/45 - 600hp+
Mitsubishi TD06 - 400hp
Mitsubishi T78 - 500hp
Mitsubishi T88 - 600hp+
Turbonetics T58 / TS04 - 400hp
Turbonetics T66 - 500hp
Turbonetics T72 - 600hp
All numbers are at the wheels on a DynoJet and on pump gas (92 pctane).

I haven't even covered the A'PEXi (IHI), Blitz (KKK), and others...

mikemjohnson · #9 (**permalink**) 10-19-2007, 03:42 AM

supercharge FTW! but this is a great piece of knowledge, you're a good man for it

pearlLude_13 · #10 (**permalink**) 11-06-2007, 05:54 PM

never go super charger biggest waste of time ever. always turbo

twokexlv6coupe · #11 (**permalink**) 11-06-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearlLude_13

never go super charger biggest waste of time ever. always turbo

please enlighten all of us and explain your close-minded reasoning behind this. i could use a good chuckle.

3rdGenCrazy · #12 (**permalink**) 11-06-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pearlLude_13

never go super charger biggest waste of time ever. always turbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe

please enlighten all of us and explain your close-minded reasoning behind this. i could use a good chuckle.

yes!... please tell us!

trojandrew · #13 (**permalink**) 12-25-2007, 02:03 AM

this thread ROCKS. i always assumed i'd spring for some kit and pay a buddy in the service shop to throw it on, but maybe... JUST maybe i might go this route.

now tell me, IF i decided to stop pretending i could pull this off, what is a recommended kit?

again, great thread!

93luderdude · #14 (**permalink**) 02-11-2009, 11:15 PM

thanks that helped me out a bunch for the near future. i have a question tho... i have an h23 in my prelude. would an h22 turbo manifold fit on my h23?? i read stuff on other sites and gotten two different answers.

twokexlv6coupe · #15 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 93luderdude

thanks that helped me out a bunch for the near future. i have a question tho... i have an h23 in my prelude. would an h22 turbo manifold fit on my h23?? i read stuff on other sites and gotten two different answers.

nope. i'm positive it wont.

ShoofIsLudin · #16 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 02:03 AM

this is an informative thread.
In case anyone cares. I've read about turbo'ing hondas for like almost 2 years now. I planned everything that I'd need to get, and i'm $200 in, and i'm on track for getting all parts, exhaust work, and tuning for all less than $1000. Just gotta find the right deals.

I have nothing against kits, cuz they do work, but just know what you're getting into before you start buying stuff...
Some kits don't come with stuff, like injectors, or fuel pump, or tuning device...

Kronicus · #17 (**permalink**) 02-14-2009, 08:26 PM

i wish i had gone turbo i really wish i did, woulda made more power all motor is completly overrated....

93luderdude · #18 (**permalink**) 02-16-2009, 07:34 PM

I've heard that some DSM manifolds work on h23's... Is this true? If it is then what year DSM works for the h23?

twokexlv6coupe · #19 (**permalink**) 02-16-2009, 07:54 PM

1st or 2nd gen DSM manifolds will fit. you just gotta redrill 1 or 2 holes. big deal.

93luderdude · #20 (**permalink**) 02-18-2009, 12:35 AM

okay cool. and would that be just as good as buying an other turbo manifold online or somethin like that?

twokexlv6coupe · #21 (**permalink**) 02-18-2009, 12:56 AM

it won't flow nearly as good as a custom manifold.

the reason people do DSM junkyard setups is for cost-effectiveness. you can use the manifold, turbo, and injectors, and MAYBE some of the IC piping and downpipe. and if you're really good and finding deals, you could source these parts for about $500.
after that, you just need a fuel pump, oil lines, IC, and an engine management/tuning, which is roughly $500-1000.
so if you just wanna get your feet wet in the world of boost, you could have a fairly reliable, fairly quick setup for about $1500 if you know how to find good deals.

twokexlv6coupe · #22 (**permalink**) 02-18-2009, 11:13 PM

uppppp

just added a BUNCHHHHHHHHH of useful links!!!!!

93luderdude · #23 (**permalink**) 02-18-2009, 11:58 PM

alright cool. that helps out a bunch. thanks

93luderdude · #24 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 11:08 AM

another question, sorry lol. but i've seen a few people put the evo turbo manifolds on 1g dsm's. so that must mean i can use the evo manifold for my h23??

Camshafted · #25 (**permalink**) 09-29-2009, 01:46 PM

I am curious as to why you think FMU's are so worthless? I have heard that they are very effective at geting the job done. Before yo ugo about telling us ow crap they are can you inform me of the reasons that they are so? I was planning on going that route and using an FMU because its cheap

Also have you heard of Megasquirts? I hear those are a great bang for your buck. What do you think?

ct989 · #26 (**permalink**) 12-08-2009, 06:18 PM

question. could i just run a s-afc? or would i need more electronic work (ecu swap etc.) just curious. plan to run low boost on an h23.

Bustr · #27 (**permalink**) 12-08-2009, 07:24 PM

finally someone did this.... thanx neck. now i we can go link happy w/ all these guys that think they can just slap a turbo on their ludes and go fast LOL.

twokexlv6coupe · #28 (**permalink**) 12-09-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camshafted

I am curious as to why you think FMU's are so worthless? I have heard that they are very effective at geting the job done. Before yo ugo about telling us ow crap they are can you inform me of the reasons that they are so? I was planning on going that route and using an FMU because its cheap

Also have you heard of Megasquirts? I hear those are a great bang for your buck. What do you think?

cuz they only control fuel, and that's it. not timing or ignition.
they're cheap for a reason; cuz they're unreliable. but your also going to need a missing link along w/ a FMU, and you can only use stock injectors w/ the stock ECU. but if you want the car to be any sort of driveable your going to need a VAFC/SAFC, so for the price of the FMU, missing link, and VAFC, you could easily have Crome + a full street tune.
it sounds like your trying to boost on a very very cheap budget, and i only have one thing to say to that: good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ct989

question. could i just run a s-afc? or would i need more electronic work (ecu swap etc.) just curious. plan to run low boost on an h23.

again, you COULD, but would i? hellll no.
just get a chipped ECU and be done with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bustr

finally someone did this.... thanx neck. now i we can go link happy w/ all these guys that think they can just slap a turbo on their ludes and go fast LOL.

lmao is this the first time ur seeing this thread? its 2+ years old hahaha

Camshafted · #29 (**permalink**) 12-09-2009, 08:44 PM

i see now. well i am not trying to go a cheap ass kit all the way. im researching, doing pros and cons of everything. i was curious about the FMU's and thats why i asked. i figured your opinion was valid. but as to the cheap subject... im trying to do it for the best price. let me know what you paid and ill beat it with almost the same parts. atleast thats my goal. and if you got that i was goin cheap just because of the fmu thats not the case. i just thought ecu's needed for turboing had to be complete stand alone. but i know that is not the case now. so like i said im researching and asking questions.

first thing first is the motor build :)

another question i have is do you have to get it tuned asap when i get it all put together? the closest shop that can do it is like 5 hours away. and i dont want to cough up the dough to by a wide band or narrow band. whichever one it is that is used for self tuning

ct989 · #30 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 11:50 AM

an safc would be cheaper in the end though, correct? thats why i asked.

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