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Old 03-24-2009, 04:57 PM
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DSM turbo questions

First off, thanks for the info you guys post on this site. I've been on here for the past week reading through stuff.

This started out as my wife's car (it's a 94), and since then I've started modding it a bit, here and there. Her biggest complaint is that it's a tad slow. I've decided to go the DSM turbo route. We're in no rush, and I've managed to pick up a few pieces at relative bargains.

The kicker is that it's indeed an auto. Flame away. :) The AT for the H23 is actually not that bad, better than the last-gen tiptronics. I know of one AT lude handling a nitrous setup fairly well, so I'll take the plunge.

1) I've read that 1st or 2nd gen DSM turbo manifolds fit the H23, with minor modification. I called a local junkyard and they have a MT manifold, but also an AT manifold. What is the difference between the two? Since I have an auto, I'm thinking to go for the AT manifold, but I'm not sure why it's different.

2) After much thought, I've decided to stick with a 14b turbo. It's cheaper, and spools quickly for everyday driving. Wifey won't be racing anyone at 100mph, but she will need extra zip around the city. It has an internal wastegate set at 8psi, which is probably the highest boost I want to run on stock internals. Can these wastegates fail? Would it be wise to have a backup system in place, like an external wastegate set at 9-10psi? Logic would indicate that the external wastegate would never open unless the internal one fails and allows boost to surpass 8psi. But I've been wrong before.

3) Since I'm using all the stock stuff out of a DSM, would the DSM downpipe fit as well? I mean, I know it would bolt on, but is there any reason I should have one fabricated instead of just using the DSM?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I accumulate more and more parts, but I think that's it for now!
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:08 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

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Originally Posted by romojap View Post
First off, thanks for the info you guys post on this site. I've been on here for the past week reading through stuff.

This started out as my wife's car (it's a 94), and since then I've started modding it a bit, here and there. Her biggest complaint is that it's a tad slow. I've decided to go the DSM turbo route. We're in no rush, and I've managed to pick up a few pieces at relative bargains.

The kicker is that it's indeed an auto. Flame away. :) The AT for the H23 is actually not that bad, better than the last-gen tiptronics. I know of one AT lude handling a nitrous setup fairly well, so I'll take the plunge.

1) I've read that 1st or 2nd gen DSM turbo manifolds fit the H23, with minor modification. I called a local junkyard and they have a MT manifold, but also an AT manifold. What is the difference between the two? Since I have an auto, I'm thinking to go for the AT manifold, but I'm not sure why it's different.

2) After much thought, I've decided to stick with a 14b turbo. It's cheaper, and spools quickly for everyday driving. Wifey won't be racing anyone at 100mph, but she will need extra zip around the city. It has an internal wastegate set at 8psi, which is probably the highest boost I want to run on stock internals. Can these wastegates fail? Would it be wise to have a backup system in place, like an external wastegate set at 9-10psi? Logic would indicate that the external wastegate would never open unless the internal one fails and allows boost to surpass 8psi. But I've been wrong before.

3) Since I'm using all the stock stuff out of a DSM, would the DSM downpipe fit as well? I mean, I know it would bolt on, but is there any reason I should have one fabricated instead of just using the DSM?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I accumulate more and more parts, but I think that's it for now!

1) Both will fit. Regardless of what transmission you have. What gets tricky is when you start using exhaust pieces from it. If your looking to bolt up and go, your best bet is to have an exhaust shop make your exhaust for you. Its decently cheap, and you can decide what you want done (high flow cat, resonators, muffler) and they can fit it to your specifications.

2) Boost controller. End of story. I have never heard of any good stories coming from not using a boost controller. This way should the WG fail, you don't have to worry about it anyway. And the 14b turbo is 9 psi if you run it off the WG alone. You can even go with a manual boost controller and it isn't expensive at all.

3) I cannot say for sure what downpipe to use, but I'm sure this goes back to question 1. If you can pull the down pipe off and it fits fine, its a good starting place for your local exhaust shop to work from.

Best of luck on your build, and keep us updated.
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Old 03-25-2009, 02:36 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

Thanks for the responses!

Second round of questions.

1) I've already picked up a 1G turbo manifold for $30 shipped, and wouldn't you know it, I'm presented now with an offer to buy a 2G mani for $50. I also read on the DSM boards that you need a 2G conversion kit to use the 14b with the 1G mani (which uses the t25 stock, if I'm not mistaken again). twokexlv6coupe claims the 1G mani is preferable, but other boards claim the 2G has better flow. Does anyone here have working knowledge of the difference between the two manifolds, or is this a question better suited for the DSM boards?

2) In order to use the DSM 450cc injectors, I've read I need to use a resistor box. Now, the DSM injectors are peak/hold and [most of] the threads recommending the resistor box refer to newer-ish hondas which use saturated injectors. My 94 lude, I believe, also uses the peak/hold injectors, so would I still need the resistor box?
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:22 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by romojap View Post
Thanks for the responses!

Second round of questions.

1) I've already picked up a 1G turbo manifold for $30 shipped, and wouldn't you know it, I'm presented now with an offer to buy a 2G mani for $50. I also read on the DSM boards that you need a 2G conversion kit to use the 14b with the 1G mani (which uses the t25 stock, if I'm not mistaken again). twokexlv6coupe claims the 1G mani is preferable, but other boards claim the 2G has better flow. Does anyone here have working knowledge of the difference between the two manifolds, or is this a question better suited for the DSM boards?

2) In order to use the DSM 450cc injectors, I've read I need to use a resistor box. Now, the DSM injectors are peak/hold and [most of] the threads recommending the resistor box refer to newer-ish hondas which use saturated injectors. My 94 lude, I believe, also uses the peak/hold injectors, so would I still need the resistor box?

1) i got confused, the 2G's actually flow a bit better than 1G's.

2) luckily, our cars ALREADY have the resistor box stock! so literally all you need to do is unclip old injectors, bore out the rubber o-ring of the DSM injectors, plug them in and your good to go. they are what i'm using
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Old 04-06-2009, 04:12 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

Thanks for the clarification.

Alright, here is the list of parts I have so far.

14b turbo, no shaft play, $125
1G Manifold, $30 (shipped)
450cc black top injectors & BOV, $100

I've found that the 14b turbo bolts right on to the 1G mani, so no conversion kit or anything is necessary. Apparently, people who post things in online forums can be wrong. :) I'm in no rush to build this thing, so I'm buying things as good deals make themselves available.

I'll keep you guys posted.
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Old 04-06-2009, 05:50 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

Ok, I'm stuck again. That was fast.

1) I was under the impression that the downpipe bolted right on to the turbo. However, apparently there's a outlet elbow that actually connects the turbo to the downpipe, reuniting the turbine and wastegate exhaust gases. This elbow also houses the 02 senor. Now this little piece of metal costs twice as much as my manifold, and no junkyard seems to have one around here. Would it be cost effective to have my exhaust shop incorporate this into the exhaust they will be making for me, or should I just buy the part off eBay and simplify the shop's work?

Edit: never mind, found one on eBay for $29 shipped. Most people sell it as a turbo exhaust dump elbow, but this guy was just selling it as an 02 housing. Incomplete titles/descriptions = my gain. :)

2) After installing the wastegate actuator on the turbo, I've found that it doesn't keep the flap 100% closed. If I take the WA off, I can press the wg down by hand until it's tight... but with the WA installed, there's a tiny bit of play.

I'm thinking there should be some kind of rubber o-ring around the wg. This would make it more airtight, and it would make it an overall more snug fit, eliminating any play. right now, the wg flap is metal on metal.

Last edited by romojap; 04-06-2009 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:42 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

a rubber o-ring will melt. Metal to metal is how its supposed to be. Examine the area where the flapper meets the housing and check for cracks. Small cracks shouldn't be an issue, but sometimes bigger ones develope where the flapper hits the turbo housing.

You need to adjust the wastegate actuator arm
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:19 AM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

shoulda gone with the 16g the 14b stops spooling too soon the 16g pulls further up the rpm band, wastegated at 11 psi. but you have the 14b for less then 200 cant complain about that. I am running this setup been away from the board for awhile but i think i am going to be on more frequently now if u need help with anything pm me and i will try to get back to you quickly
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:37 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

Thanks Shoof. Of course rubber o-rings will melt. I should have known that. :) Anyway, I guess I'll adjust the actuator arm, as it needs to be about a millimeter shorter to fully close the wastegate flapper. Is it just a matter of bending it ever so slightly and adjusting the angle, or is there a better procedure?

htswmr6, Like I said, this is the wife's car, and she won't be redlining it much. She'll need the boost quickly though while zipping around the city. So boost tapering off further up the band isn't a concern. I chose a smaller, faster-spooling turbo on purpose. So far I think I'm set... If you're running this setup I might pick your brain on running the oil lines, putting in the o2 sensors, etc.

Right now I'm just looking for a deal [steal] on a downpipe, intercooler, and walbro pump. And pretty soon I'll have to start researching tuning. Hondata vs chrome vs aem vs God knows what else. That'll be a can of worms I won't be looking forward to opening...
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:53 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

For tuning a DSM set up I'd recommend a chipped p06 tuned with crome, but that choice also gets based on who's tuning it, if its u, thats what i'd go with, but if someone else, you'll want to get what they prefer
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:34 AM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

u will need to have a downpipe made there isnt one out there for this setup i believe. i went to a local exhaust shop they made mine for about 55, intercooler fuel pump off of ebay 200 total.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:49 AM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

the downpipe is something any muffler shop can do. Walboro 255lph are just under $100 all day on ebay.

For such a simple setup(compared to some other bling bling setups i've seen, any intercooler you can fit behind the bumper will work perfectly.
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:44 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

hey man good deal! i just found an eagle talon which a guy will let me take anything and everything i want off of it for 125 bucks! im hopin to ask u questions as i go also.
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I agree with camshafted on this one.

My Build thread (F22/H23)

The only thing realistic about The Fast and the Furious is that the DSM breaks in the first race!
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:50 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

I have a dsm setup I installed everything from start to finish pm me if u got questions
the only difference with auto and manual manifolds is the autos have like a restrictor casted onto the manifold I bored it out to have better exhaust flow the 2g manifolds also have better metals in the cast so it'll handle more abuse the injectors just squirt some wd40 and it'll sqeeze in no modifications needed the fuel pump however is smaller than ours so once wired and pu on I'll recommend a hose clamp which I used or zip ties to hold it in place sorry but Im using my iPhone so once I get in front of my computer I can give you a better write up a but you got to know the front mount doesn't go on youll have to fab one which I did or find one
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:55 PM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

okay..i'm in front of my computer now. i will write down the order of how i did my build and why i would recommend a different approach on some parts.
and i am an owner who's on the road alot so i did not remove my ps, ac, and cruise control.

1. compression test
2. valve adjustment
3. compression test
4. removed the fuel pump ( access through trunk )
5. installed a 255lph walbro fuel pump (fyi the 3000gt fuel pump is the same and it's cheaper
6. replaced fuel filter just in case.
7. removed injector rail and injectors
8. installed 450cc dsm blue top injectors adding a little bit of lube at tip. no mods needed just a little bit of a push
9. installed aem fuel rail (the stock injector rail fits into the 450cc injectors fine)
10. installed fuel pressure gauge
11. check for fuel leaks
12. removed entire exhaust (pipe, downpipe, manifold)
13. installed 2.5" catback
14. installed test pipe
15. installed predrilled dsm exhaust manifold
16. removed radiator fan for room
17. removed the front torsion mount and bracket
18. placed the turbo to see for fitment and marked where needs to be shaved off.
19. removed turbo
20. the torsion mount bracket left lower bolt area has to be cut by like close to and inch. but remember take your time if you screw up there's no turning back but buying a new block
once there's enough clearance move on to 21.
21. remove oil pan
22. drilled holes for oil return. and welded nuts onto the pan
23. install oil pan
24. install turbo
25. install oil return line
26. connect oil feed line
27. installed oil pressure gauge
28. installed intercooler in front of the bumper
29. i used 2.5" but the amount of power the dsm gives 2" is plenty enough. 2.5 is so wide it's hard to work around it.
30. install bov
31. install vacuum from bov to intake manifold(need good source)
32. install vacuum from intercooler pipe closer to the turbo need to make a nipple and connect it to your wastegate actuator
33. i made my own downpipe. but what you see on ebay the 3" is not made for the dsm to fit into our car. just do it easy and have a muffler shop make you one.
34. the hole you mentioned and it's the elbow before the downpipe it's for the egt gauge. the o2 sensor needs to be further down or you'll shorten the life span of the o2 sensor
35. install o2 sensor wideband.
36. ecu. now this is just my two cents. but i got my ecu from someone purchased it chipped and premapped. a basic tune. and once i installed it it fired right up which was good but i was running really rich. i paid another guy to get it street tuned. 200. so if you're ready and you have a local guy who can chip and tune it'll save you alot of money right there.
almost forgot don't forget to get colder plugs. you should only run super now. h23's don't require super unleaded. so if you were like me you were probably running regular.
and one more thing before i finish up. my turbo needs to be rebuilt my seals are leaking really bad so i'll be removing it in a week or two. i can take pictures as i remove it if you want just pm your email address. and i can also take pictures of how i made my front motor mount.
all this was possible b/c i work at a bodyshop and mechanic shop
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:25 AM
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Re: DSM turbo questions

updates?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnoxBB2 View Post
I agree with camshafted on this one.

My Build thread (F22/H23)

The only thing realistic about The Fast and the Furious is that the DSM breaks in the first race!
94 Civic EX - Totalled
89 Civic Hatch (fidanza flywheel, excedy clutch, intake, exhaust, short shifter, tein drop coils, D16ZC) -Sold
89 CRX (Stock) - Sold
94 Civic EX - Totalled
92 Prelude Si - Blown Motor
96 Chevy S10 (3inch lift kit, tinted windows, sound system, sunroof, ballin!) - Sold
96 Ford Explorer A.K.A: Chopsmobile (If you drive it you will know why I call it the Chopsmobile) - Blown Tranny
91 Honda Accord (Stock) - DD
99 Hyundai Elantra - Sold
99 Ford Taurus - doin it...
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