Planning a turbo build, one question

[PreludeS]

Ok, I have decided to build for boost once school gets out. Here is my question, my goal is 320-330 to the wheels, Can I accomplish this reliably with an F22, or should I go with the H23?... thanks

Marshall

[twokexlv6coupe]

you can do it reliably on ANY motor, granted you buy quality parts.

[PreludeS]

ok, here is what I've gathered...
1) if I stick with the F22, I can run forged on stock sleeves, h23 i would need to have it sleeved

2) Either way I will need a chiped ECU and Tune (wicked expencive right?)

3) Need a different cam and gear to fully maximize power

4) Turbo will burn threw a stock clutch, will need a stage 2 or higher, (idk about this one, just heard it from some moron at my school... his philosiphy is "Grind it till you find it, and when you grind it too much, mommy and daddy will fix it")


Let me know any other major things I would need, a side from exaust, injectors, you know all that stuff.

Thanks

[twokexlv6coupe]

how much power are you planning on making?
what will the car be used for?

[PreludeS]

I was thinking around 320ish to the wheels... for a daily driver... should I aim lower?

[twokexlv6coupe]

320 to the wheels is about 400 at the crank, which has been done on a stock block, but since your planning on building the engine, 400hp should be no problem.
1) yes
2) ECU: $120
street or dyno tuning: $3-500.
but since your planning on spending $4,500+, that should be chump change.
3) don't need, but it'll help.
4) stage 2 or 3 should hold that amount of power.

[PreludeS]

320 to the wheels is about 400 at the crank, which has been done on a stock block, but since your planning on building the engine, 400hp should be no problem.
1) yes
2) ECU: $120
street or dyno tuning: $3-500.
but since your planning on spending $4,500+, that should be chump change.
3) don't need, but it'll help.
4) stage 2 or 3 should hold that amount of power.


Thanks, I read your sticky on building a turbo car, it was very helpful... so heres what im looking at.. I figured it at about 6k, am I about right?... cuz this is my "work like a dog all summer, then put it together right before school starts" project

[twokexlv6coupe]

it might not be THAT much, but its def better to aim at a higher estimate to account for the unexpected, which always happens.

[PreludeS]

/\The way im planning on doing it is pulling a f22/h23 from a junk yard, taking it to the machine shop, putting it on a stand, and then building it piece by piece, which kind of brings me back to my original question, which motor should I use? H23 or f22 kinda leanin towards f22 cuz of a comment made by this spoiled little brat at my school who drives an rsx.. something like "ha, your cars a single cam... it'll never keep up with mine".. he pisses me off

[twokexlv6coupe]

scratch that, it will be 6G's.

there is a forged piston that you can use on the H-series engine w/o sleeving it, but i personally haven't heard of enough success stories to convince me that they are very reliable. check out rory's members ride of his old prelude, he used those pistons.
but since sleeving an H-series costs a grand alone, its up to you. when built, they are both VERY, VERY strong motors!

[twokexlv6coupe]

here. the OFFICIALLLLLL F22 turbo thread!!!


http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1983967&page=1

[PreludeS]

/\ so 6k is what im shooting for... thats even using the f22.. cause I'll probably stick with it, cause everyone runs H series... I might mate it to an H22 tranny... but I might not... heres a question... with even a top of the line turbo set up... and a million dollar tune (complete exaggeration) i've heard of major malfunctions that end up costing thousands to fix... is this for real... or is there a "fail safe" to catistropic failure?

[94ludeguy]

dude nothing is fail safe. your setup could last you 1000 miles or 30k... do a leakdown test and compression test to see how healthy your motor is...and why would you want to put an h22 tranny on the f22.it might help a 1/4 mile time b.c of the shorter gearing but if you want to cruise on the highway you will be at like 5k rpm. if you boost there is more maintenance that will be required. there is no "fail safe" method but if done correctly the chances of your engine lasting longer is higher

[PreludeS]

/\ it wont be "my engine" that im turboing, Im buying a different motor and starting from scrach... does any head work need to be done?

[Brash22]

At last count you were up to 6 questions, should I change the title?

[PreludeS]

/\ do whatever you want... your the mod, not me

[twokexlv6coupe]

hahaha, Colin being a smartass, like usual.


there is no way to be 200% certain your engine won't blow up. the only way to ensure the life of your engine as long as possible is buying quality parts, and research research research!!! not everything that i say is the end-all, be-all solution. i did a year of research before buying a single part.

[PreludeS]

/\ thanks, ill be sure and research

[lilbluelude]

researching is for noobs. Sounds like you got alot to learn bud. BTW, and engine build isnt an overnight kind of ordeal. You seem to portray your notion to build an engine and boost the car in a few days as feasible.. It takes time to do it right and the more time you take the more success should have. But, buying quality parts will make a big difference on alot of things including the amount of custom involved. 320whp is alot on a F22 of any kind... BTW... Use the F22 block and go with the H22 head... Iron sleeves + boost friendly flow! Thats going to take even more research though.

To build a motor for boost: You need forged pistons, balanced bottom end(IMO always), forged rods. Anything else is extra and not needed for a basic build. You can easily spend lots of money on little parts that arent needed for little gains all day long. I could build a motor for reasonable boost so cheap!

[PreludeS]

researching is for noobs. Sounds like you got alot to learn bud. BTW, and engine build isnt an overnight kind of ordeal. You seem to portray your notion to build an engine and boost the car in a few days as feasible.. It takes time to do it right and the more time you take the more success should have. But, buying quality parts will make a big difference on alot of things including the amount of custom involved. 320whp is alot on a F22 of any kind... BTW... Use the F22 block and go with the H22 head... Iron sleeves + boost friendly flow! Thats going to take even more research though.

To build a motor for boost: You need forged pistons, balanced bottom end(IMO always), forged rods. Anything else is extra and not needed for a basic build. You can easily spend lots of money on little parts that arent needed for little gains all day long. I could build a motor for reasonable boost so cheap!

ya im aware of how long it takes to build and engine, thats why in an earlier post i refered to it as a "summer project" Thanks for the list of needed internals, but no offence, im not stupid

[89prelude2.0s]

dont worry about lilbluelude dude he always does that comes off as an ass to alot of people dont worry but he is a good person to listen to he has a 600hp h22 swapped 3g but dont worry i hope you do this boost the **** out of that f22 non-vtecs are so much better plus if you kick some smartass in a race you can tell them they got beat by a sohc non-vtec alot more satisfying:biggrin:

[lilbluelude]

ya im aware of how long it takes to build and engine, thats why in an earlier post i refered to it as a "summer project" Thanks for the list of needed internals, but no offence, im not stupid

I wasnt calling you ingorant by any means, but obviously you misinterpreted something just as I did...I was just playing around and thought it was obvious with my noobs comment.. I took your 'work like a dog all summer, and throw it together' comment as working making money all summer and boosting the car right at the end of the summer quickly. Rereading, I may have had the wrong idea. My bad.

I was honestly just trying to be helpful, with a bit of humor attached. I also was giving you a needs list because you listed some things really not needed. I mean, if you can afford it and want it cool... But, things like valves and cams wont do much with a turbo build. We are talking maybe 30hp for $600 on cams which puts it more in the bling area than the needed bin. For my money, I would swap to an h22 head with the f22 block for better flow anyways. Plus, finding turbo parts for the F22a1 isnt as easy. f22parts.com YOUR F22 has different exhaust ports than the more common f22b1...

If you need help or have questions, I would be more than happy to help. And yes, I do have experience boosting the f22a1 stock block even.

[PreludeS]

/\ pm sent

[PreludeS]

We are talking maybe 30hp for $600 on cams

for me it would only be cam... not cams lol.. i can get a turbo cam for my motor for 300... but Im gonna take your word only because your putting over 6 times more power to the ground than I am

[ogsmakdade]

scratch that, it will be 6G's.

there is a forged piston that you can use on the H-series engine w/o sleeving it, but i personally haven't heard of enough success stories to convince me that they are very reliable. check out rory's members ride of his old prelude, he used those pistons.
but since sleeving an H-series costs a grand alone, its up to you. when built, they are both VERY, VERY strong motors!

nick I was talkin to steve (motomanxxx)at the tri state meet about the turbo lude he just built. He used those mahle pistons on a turbo build and they lasted about 20k miles in an h22 on 9psi. that's the longest I've ever heard of them holding up and he said the same, it's not typical.

spend the money for forged internals. do it right the first time. it sucks spending twice.

[htswmr6]

PreludeS, man u have a clusterf*ck of posts on this site man. one about turbo parts another about swapping in a v8, then another one about 4-2-1 header names or numbers of something like that. man you need to pick something and stick to it. you ave so many people saying things to you i cant believe that you are keeping it straight. i dont even know what to say anymore man.

mahle pistons wouldnt be needed on an f22 crower makes great rods and wiseco makes a great piston, i know they are in my f22 turbo prelude. just realize that the first time that you do anything its going to blow at some point.

[PreludeS]

yeah I know I got alot of posts... one about a V6 swap, an idea I was entertaining at the time.... one about using factory gaskets on a header cuz my EM is cracked, one about my turbo build, and now one about a G22 build... there all stuff im working on (except the V6) so its pretty easy to keep it strait... thanks btw, I was thinkng wiseco for sure, but wasn't sure on the rods... looks like Ill be using crower

[htswmr6]

u should give up on the "G22" idea its crap. vtec is useless for turbo and intake is basically the same if ur going to go with a frankstein engine u should use the h23 head it has no vtec but the dohc setup and it basically makes the f22a the f22b which is the "JDM" version of the h23. it would be cheaper too. it flows better for turbo as well.

[Brash22]

I disagree with you 100% there.

The whole idea of VTEC is so that you can have two cam profiles - one for torque and fuel economy down low, and one for high end power at 6000+ RPM.

So the use of VTEC on a turbo engine would be great. You can design a cam profile for the low end where you aren't on boost, and you can do one for the top when you are on boost. Whereas with just a regular H23 head with one inlet and one exhaust cam profile, you have to pick one profile that needs to be a best of both worlds. Because unfortunatly (and I'll eat my hat if anybody can prove me wrong, but I seriously doubt it) nobody with a turbocharged engine spends ALL of their time on boost.

[lilbluelude]

u should give up on the "G22" idea its crap. vtec is useless for turbo and intake is basically the same if ur going to go with a frankstein engine u should use the h23 head it has no vtec but the dohc setup and it basically makes the f22a the f22b which is the "JDM" version of the h23. it would be cheaper too. it flows better for turbo as well.

^^

This guys an idiot. I mean, a completely useless post by another internet guru on motors. 'Crap' information and the "G22" is an awesome combo for a budget F boost build!


I'll come off as a douchebag in this post and not care. Misinformation such as the above post is what makes the internet such a dangerous place.

[PreludeS]

Thanks guys... you will learn... that i dont really car if my ideas sound stupid... if its something I wanna do... ill do it... im really likeing the G22 idea mainly because... well the whole flow thing... and the dual cam profiles... and also for the ricer in me... ill have a valve cover that says vtec lol

[PreludeS]

Thanks guys... but unfortunately this thread can be closed... effective immediately the turbo build is on stand by untill further notice

[Brash22]

Done. Care to share why?