Honda Prelude Forum
 
Go Back   Honda Prelude Forum > Tech-Talk > 5th Gen Honda Prelude

Thread Title
New Luder i have some basic questions.

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008, 11:55 AM
muha22752's Avatar
BiH LUDER

 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: O'fallon
Posts: 749
iTrader: (1)
muha22752 is a glorious beacon of lightmuha22752 is a glorious beacon of lightmuha22752 is a glorious beacon of lightmuha22752 is a glorious beacon of lightmuha22752 is a glorious beacon of light
New Luder i have some basic questions.

hey guy i just got my lude and i have a copple of basic questions.
i have short ram,header,exgaust, and pullys what is the next thing that i can get that will be simple and not to expensive that i can install next so that i can increase my whp.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008, 12:16 PM
BadMofo's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Riverton, NJ
Posts: 1,305
iTrader: (0)
BadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to BadMofo
simple? like as in bolt-ons? Not much... I/H/E is about it for the simple bolt-ons for our cars. Look into a V-AFC II or S-AFC Neo because you'll be able to squeak out a few more HP from your I/H/E if you tune (you changed your engine's breathing dynamics, so now you gotta tune for that if you want it to be effective and safe).

Do you have a 5spd or A/T. If you have a 5 speed you can upgrade to a stage 1 clutch and a lightened flywheel... that won't increase bhp at all, but it'll aid in getting your power to the ground better.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008, 04:11 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: charlottesville, va
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
HaPpYfAcE is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to HaPpYfAcE
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMofo View Post
Look into a V-AFC II or S-AFC Neo because you'll be able to squeak out a few more HP from your I/H/E if you tune (you changed your engine's breathing dynamics, so now you gotta tune for that if you want it to be effective and safe).
I'd consider a hondata s200 or something over a vafc for tuning. cost might be a little higher, but definitely worth it in the long run.

Quote:
Do you have a 5spd or A/T. If you have a 5 speed you can upgrade to a stage 1 clutch and a lightened flywheel... that won't increase bhp at all, but it'll aid in getting your power to the ground better.
changing to a stage 1 clutch is a good place to go at this point since you are looking for more power, you're gonna need the higher clamping force. if you have a hp goal in mind, make sure the clutch you get will meet or exceed your goals.

a lightweight flywheel is pretty good too since it reduces the rotational mass of your engine, thus allowing it to rev a little easier/faster. as mentioned by BadMofo, this will more than likely appear as more power to the wheels because of the freed up weight.
__________________
01 Prelude pwp base
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008, 04:59 PM
Mdtdnb's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Colorado Springs! MAD COLD!
Posts: 1,459
iTrader: (2)
Mdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond reputeMdtdnb has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Mdtdnb Send a message via Yahoo to Mdtdnb
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaPpYfAcE View Post
I'd consider a hondata s200 or something over a vafc for tuning. cost might be a little higher, but definitely worth it in the long run.
Agreed, Hondata ftw.
__________________

sig # 2 by OceanBorn


Member #28 of the BB Squad

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyznutz View Post
You can NEVER have too many tools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash22 View Post
Custom plates are gay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazer View Post
I try not to hang around people that seem like that, because lets face it you can tell by Oreilys flame decals on their cars from a mile away
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008, 05:04 PM
Brash's Avatar
Super Roo mod

 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Lucky Country
Posts: 5,846
iTrader: (2)
Brash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond repute
If you're only planning on doing the I/H/E mods then a VAFC or Neo would do the job. A Hondata wouldn't be worth it IMO.

However if you chose to go a little further and do cams as well then a Hondata would definatly be an advantage.
__________________

Request for rep = NO REP. Kthxbi. IF YOU ASK A STUPID QUESTION, OR MAKE A STUPID STATEMENT, YOU WILL GET A STUPID ANSWER!

FIFTH GENERATION RESOURCE GUIDE <<<-- USE IT, USE IT, USE IT!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008, 08:50 PM
BadMofo's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Riverton, NJ
Posts: 1,305
iTrader: (0)
BadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to BadMofo
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaPpYfAcE View Post
I'd consider a hondata s200 or something over a vafc for tuning. cost might be a little higher, but definitely worth it in the long run.
Hondata is completely overkill for I/H/E... not to mention a LOT higher cost (remember, you'll need a new ECU, a chip, the software, a rom writer/romulator, etc...), and far from a "simple and not to expensive" modification... Vafc or S-afc Neo is all you really need for bolt ons. Now, if you were doing an engine/turbo build... then it's time to step up to Hondata or something similar or a complete stand-alone system... but for a short ram, an exhaust, and a header (which I'm sure is one of the OEM replacements [i.e. DC Sport, Megan, Ebay, etc..] and not one of the custom ones [i.e. RMF, Hytech, etc...]) a V-afc II or s-afc neo offers everything you need...

Also... if you have an A/T... you can't go to Hondata anyway.

Last edited by BadMofo; 03-03-2008 at 08:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 03:48 AM
muha22752's Avatar
BiH LUDER

 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: O'fallon
Posts: 749
iTrader: (1)
muha22752 is a glorious beacon of lightmuha22752 is a glorious beacon of lightmuha22752 is a glorious beacon of lightmuha22752 is a glorious beacon of lightmuha22752 is a glorious beacon of light
no its an m/t, thanks for the input guys.i think i will go with the S-afc, i will probly be asking for some other things latter thx again.

ok so i think my short ram use to be a cold air that some one cut down, what do u guys think is the best cold air/short ram intake on the market?

Last edited by muha22752; 04-03-2008 at 07:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 06:00 AM
Brash's Avatar
Super Roo mod

 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Lucky Country
Posts: 5,846
iTrader: (2)
Brash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond repute
Most of them are pretty much the same mate. Check out this threadfor some more ideas.

They all more or less perform the same function, and most of them don't look any different from the others on the market. A good tune will be required to make the most of any intake, but with a good tune you should be able to make good power with any of them.
__________________

Request for rep = NO REP. Kthxbi. IF YOU ASK A STUPID QUESTION, OR MAKE A STUPID STATEMENT, YOU WILL GET A STUPID ANSWER!

FIFTH GENERATION RESOURCE GUIDE <<<-- USE IT, USE IT, USE IT!

Last edited by Brash; 03-04-2008 at 06:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 11:09 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: charlottesville, va
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
HaPpYfAcE is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to HaPpYfAcE
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMofo View Post
Hondata is completely overkill for I/H/E.
it's a better way to tune than safc or vafc. it allows you to adjust properly rather than just faking out the stock ecu by adjusting the 'output' of a sensor or two.

with the used parts market, i'm sure someone could find an ecu for much cheaper than buying everything new.

with both you will still have to pay for dyno time to do it right.
__________________
01 Prelude pwp base
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 11:22 AM
BadMofo's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Riverton, NJ
Posts: 1,305
iTrader: (0)
BadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to BadMofo
I'm just saying that he asked for "simple and not too expensive" modifications... and even with used parts, the full Hondata setup isn't cheap.. and it's far from "simple" for a novice...

There's no doubt that Hondata is a better solution... but it doesn't match the criteria that he asked for...

Now... if he had said that he had any more modifications than I/H/E, I would have recommended Hondata or stand-alone engine management...

You can get a v-afc from ebay for 2-300 bucks, and install it yourself fairly easily.

Even if he gets a used ECU it's gonna be roughly 100 for that alone, plus a burnable rom chip (or a romulator), a chip writer (or the romulator like I said before), Hondata software (and the Hondata s200 was 295 dollars new, and is now discontinued... s300 is 595 dollars), and a new OBD-I harness. On top of that, it requires soldering of the chip socket onto the ecu, which is not simple for a novice, and depending on what state he lives in, it could also cause problems with him passing emissions... especially if their inspection stations hook into the OBD-II device for testing... they will fail him simply for having a 97+ vehicle without OBD-2 in it... even if he passes all the other tests.

You are, no doubt, completely correct for saying that Hondata is an infinitely better way to tune... it's simply not right for what he is looking for.

Last edited by BadMofo; 03-04-2008 at 11:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 11:44 AM
1997Prelude's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: VA BEACH VA
Posts: 71
iTrader: (0)
1997Prelude is on a distinguished road
What are these v-afc/s-afc/hontata devices? What is the price ranges of these things? Couldn't you just take your lude into a shop that can tune it? Or do you have to replace the eecu?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 11:53 AM
BadMofo's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Riverton, NJ
Posts: 1,305
iTrader: (0)
BadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to BadMofo
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1997Prelude View Post
What are these v-afc/s-afc/hontata devices? What is the price ranges of these things? Couldn't you just take your lude into a shop that can tune it? Or do you have to replace the eecu?
Hondata is engine management software that allows you to tune a modified OBD-I ecu (either by A)inserting a chip socket into the ecu and installing a rom chip that you have burned with a tuning map that you created using your Hondata software [this is the technique used in s100 and s300 systems] or by B) attaching an interface box to a modified OBD-1 ecu to directly feed your tuning map to it [this is the technique used for the now discontinued s200 system]) in an amazing number of ways. Head over to www.hondata.com to read about it... it's quite impressive.

V-afc and S-afc Neo are air:fuel controllers that also have the ability to change your v-tec crossover point. They accomplish this by hooking up in between your sensors and your ecu, and "tricking" the ecu into running your motor differently. Under normal operation, your ECU makes tuning changes to your air:fuel ratio on the fly by using data it receives from a number of sensors. What these "piggy back" controllers do, is hook into your ecu mid-line (Sensors-------->V-AFC / S-AFC NEO----------->ECU) and send false signals back to your ECU to trick it into tuning your A:F ratio differently, according to the settings you or your tuner program into it. They are very limited in what they can do, and are by no means very accurate to tune your A/F ratio...

And no, your ECU can't be tuned without modification one way or another. OBD-2 ECU's (all ludes 96+ with stock ecu's have OBD-2 ecus) can not be tuned at all other than using the V-AFC or other piggy backs... OBD-1 can be tuned in a wider variety of ways... but still requires modification.

Last edited by BadMofo; 03-04-2008 at 12:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 12:15 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: charlottesville, va
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
HaPpYfAcE is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to HaPpYfAcE
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMofo View Post
I'm just saying that he asked for "simple and not too expensive" modifications... and even with used parts, the full Hondata setup isn't cheap.. and it's far from "simple" for a novice...
what i'm thinking is that someone else will have already put together what's needed on the ecu...they have a hondata s200 already soldered onto the board, etc. the editors and software is supplied by the shop that does the tuning, thus all he would have to get would be the ecu/conversion harness.

at any rate...vafc/safc is a waste of money, imo. i believe there have been reports of the stock ecu relearning and adjusting fuel trim back to stock even with the output from the vafc. there has to be a better way, even if it is a 'simple and not too expensive' modification. maybe hondata isn't right for him, but as we are in agreement that it's a better way to tune, i still don't think it would be as difficult as how you explained it.

__________________
01 Prelude pwp base
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:00 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


Copyright © 2006-2009 PreludeZone.com All Rights Reserved.