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Old 02-13-2008, 06:42 PM
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Supercharged or Turbo charged! Help

Now ive just recently switched my car and bought myself a 98 prelude sh and i want to do some modification but one thing i cannot decide on? should i be gettin a supercharger or a turbocharger now since the prelude already ahs a high compression rate im thinking off gettin it supercharged gettin a bigger head gasket and lowerin the comperssion just a tad bit. or do u think i should be gettin it turbocharged however i dunt want to change my internals the only thing that i will be chning is my cams and cam gears what do u think the best to do?
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:43 PM
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what do u think i should do
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:44 PM
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5th gen super charged is that way to go In my opinion, h22's arent too turbo friendly if ya catch my drift.
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:54 PM
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I think you should buy a supercharger, but right before you put it on, put it back in the box and send it to me as a gift. Hahaha. But, if not, mostly go with a supercharger.
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:58 PM
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5th gen super charged is that way to go In my opinion, h22's arent too turbo friendly if ya catch my drift.
thats not necessarily true^. however, for his situation, you're right. he should go supercharger. but only because, if he did some research he would realize the superchargers available for our cars aren't very good once you get over 8psi. and turbo's are VERY easy to raise the boost on and the great majority of them will easily push 12lbs with no problem.... risking blowing the engine if not built. and really 8 is the max i would go anyways if you're not gonna build the internals. they come out of the box with i think either 6 or 8. they advertise 6 but a lot of people with boost gauges say it says about 7.5-8.
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:06 PM
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what would u suggest to do then becasue i find it pointless to get a supercharger if im only gonna boost 8 psi wht do u suggest i could do to make it preform much better?
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:40 PM
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If you want it to perform much better, the only choice is to get a turbo and build your engine right. It sounds like your trying to find a way to get alot of power for not alot of money. Not trying to fault you, I wish I could too. But basically the only way you can get alot of power is to put alot of money. Money=power. Of course you can't just buy stuff and expect it to be the best, you have to spend countless hours of tuning, building, and tweaking to get the most performance out of your engine.

Moral of the story, save up your $$, hold off on buying visual mods for your lude, and make everything you buy go towards your engine. Looks will always come after performance. Besides theres plenty of cheapo mods you can do, just take a look at my members ride page (link in siggy). Happy luding!
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:42 PM
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how much money do you have to spend?
what will the car be used for?
what is your ultimate power goal?
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:50 PM
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oh yea, and... hopefully you're not too attached to your ATTS, cuz i'm pretty sure there's not a single EMS that lets you keep ATTS except for a VAFC, AFC Neo, or greddy E-manage, which aren't the greatest of tuning softwares
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?

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Old 02-13-2008, 08:54 PM
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If you want to push more than 8 psi (from a turbo or sc, doesn't really make a difference, you're doing the same thing essentially, just two different methods) then you should build your engine. (Sleeved block, lower compression pistons, upgraded valvetrain etc...). Doing it right is very pricey, but if you can afford it, it's definitely worth it. You're just as likely to blow an unbuilt motor with a supercharger as you are with a turbocharger if you overboost with either option. Definitely do your research and do it right before you spend a bunch of money.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:55 PM
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yea i no that i ahve to spend alot the problem aint money i want my car to preform realli well but the bad thing about it its also my regualr drive, for now. and i drive to school everyday and my school is 50 miles away so i dunt want to put alot of things in the car wen im gonna be puttin alot of miles on it.. get what i mean? my main goal is to get it above 300 or around 350 hp
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:04 PM
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sc then, wont have to build the insides because youll run safely at 8 and youll probably be shy of 300, get intake header cat and exhaust and tuned and you might reach 300hp

could be wrong, i haveno idea how much HP the 8psi JR super adds
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:46 PM
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300 at the crank correct? In either case unless your engine is non USDM (JDM EDM) I believe the H22A4 puts out the same as my A1, 190 at the crank, without building the internals there is no way 8 lbs of boost is going to put you up another 110... if you want 300 you got some building to do my friend.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:20 PM
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00CDMluder is putting down 234hp/203lb-ft with the stock JRSC. to get over 300, a built engine is a MUST! (super OR turbo)
hittin 300+hp with the JRSC is gonna be a lil bit harder than a turbo cuz the SC starts getting very inefficient at the higher boost levels. but you could always go water/meth injection
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:18 AM
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then you're better off going turbo. there is no supercharger available for the prelude that will get you to 300whp. i mean, you could put like a 12lb pulley. but you'll burn up the supercharger really quickly.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:05 AM
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wich 1 would be cheaper. and also wich 1 would run better with camgears, camshafts, pistons, rods. i didnt want to make another thread about the same thing

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Old 02-14-2008, 11:31 AM
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:09 PM
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Edit: It took me a fairly long time to write this up, at the time I started writing it, it was before the previous 2 posts were posted, so it took me a little over an hour to write this... So, "H22A BB6", read through this... I know it's long, but it will help you with your decision. Remember that both methods are different ways of accomplishing the same thing... so it's not so much which one will "run better" with your set up, so much as it is which one is more "appropriate" for your setup, driving style, and power desires... while also weighing the pros and cons of each setup. To answer your cost question, if you are doing it all right, the SC will most likely be cheaper... but doing it the right way involves building up your engine... so "cheaper" is really a relative term... it's gonna be expensive either way. Please, read this... I hope this helps a lot of people!


300 bhp is pretty much a "must-build" scenario. Also, like was said earlier, the JRSC probably won't get you there unless you upgrade your pullies, which will lessen the life of the SC. It's gonna take some major pressure to make that much HP, and a SC simply isn't the best way of achieving that much. Either way, you're going to need to build your motor (and TUNE IT!) to make that much horsepower... ESPECIALLY if you wanna retain it as a daily driver.

Also... really think about the way that each of these devices work (to achieve the same goal, a pressurized air charge), and the pros and cons of each...

For instance, remember that the supercharger is directly linked to the rotational speed of your motor... this has pros and cons. The main pro to a supercharger is that you will attain maximum boost more quickly at lower rpms than you will with a turbo. Since a supercharger is directly link to the rotational speed of your motor, it is always ready to make boost immediately as soon as you need it, with instant response... As soon as the crank spins faster, the blower spins faster... The con to this, is that the supercharger is not only mechanically linked to the rotational speed of your motor, but also mechanically LIMITED by the same concept as far as how much boost it can make without changing/upgrading pulleys.

Now onto a turbocharger. The reason turbochargers are becoming more and more popular nowadays, is the fact that the majority of them are much more mechanically efficient (while under boost!) than the majority of superchargers. The reason being is that a supercharger is leeching off of the same energy that is needed/being used to pump pistons, and rotate numerous other in car systems such as A/C, power steering, alternator, etc... (anything belt driven basically). Basically, by using the same theory that removing rotational mass will increase engine efficiency (PS removal, A/C removal, lightened pulleys, etc...), tacking more rotational mass on is doing just the opposite... it's one more pully/belt for your engine to spin, and that much less energy is available for your wheels. Granted, the supercharger will make the power up by pressurizing your air charge and increasing your engine's volumetric efficiency, increasing the amount of work/energy your engine is capable of producing in the form of more torque and hp, yet the added rotational mass will still take away from the potential of the process of boosting. So what is the solution?? Simple: increase the volumetric efficiency of your motor, without increasing the rotational mass and workload of your motor. In comes the turbocharger... A turbocharger is much more efficient (again, while under boost) than a supercharger in that it is converting previously wasted energy into boost, as opposed to relying on the same mechanical energy that so many other components are already relying on. As you probably know, the way that a turbocharger creates boost is by using the existing exhaust gas velocity to spin a turbine, which in turn creates the lovely lovely boost that we all love. In this scenario, we are still dramatically increasing the volumetric efficiency of our motor in the form of an increased fuel/air charge, but at the same time, we aren't leaching any where near as much mechanical energy from our engine itself. The exhaust gasses are of no use to us anymore anyway... they're a waste product, so why not put them to work? Beyond increased efficiency, another advantage to this is that you are no longer limited in how much boost you can make by the rotation of your crankshaft... the amount of boost you can make now is only limited by your exhaust gas flow/velocity, your wastegate and/or boost controller, and the aspect ratio of your turbo. Theoretically, your turbine can make an indefinite amount of boost now proportionate to the velocity of your exhaust... up until the turbine exceeds the boundaries of it's design and fails/breaks (that's why this is merely theoretical, you would eventually obviously destroy your turbo and/or your engine itself =P). I won't get too technical with all that for right now, it's a fairly complex scenario that we don't have time to disect right now, but you'll get the general idea.

The main cons to a turbocharger (IMHO) are turbo lag and boost threshold. Unlike a supercharger that is always ready to make boost (or in some cases, building up boost even while at idle depending on the type of SC), a turbocharger isn't making sufficient boost until the exhaust velocity is enough to spin the turbine fast enough to make said boost. This RPM point at which the exhaust velocity is sufficient to make boost is the boost threshold. (This is commonly mistaken as turbo lag... similar concept, but not quite the same). Turbo lag is very similar, but a slightly more complicated concept, so we'll treat these two as one in the same for this basic discussion. There are many ways to battle turbo lag/lower your boost threshold... (different aspect ratio turbos, ceramic turbines [although these are fragile compared to others solutions], electronic motors that lightly pre-spool your turbine, better wastegates, and sequential turbochargers like in the RX7 [one is designed to create boost at low rpm, while the other doesn't kick in until mid-high rpm... the low rpm turbo is smaller and has a smaller aspect ratio, creating less power, but also at much lower rpms, while the mid-high rpm turbo is larger with a larger aspect ratio, creating much more power, but not until later in your powerband] are just a few of the many options)... but this is still one of the biggest "weak" points of the turbocharging concept.

The only other main con to a turbo system is the complexity of it. It is much more complex than bolting on a SC, slappin the appropriate belts/pulleys on, tuning, and driving away... but if done correctly, it's well worth the headaches =P.

Note: I understand that this wasn't the most in depth discussion on F/I, and there are a number of things I didn't cover. The main purpose of this was basically to give a very general understanding of the concepts behind boosting, without getting too technical and confusing anyone. Please understand that "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing", and if anyone is still interested in boosting, there is much much more research to do... but this should give you a general understanding of the concepts, pros, and cons of super/turbocharging.

Also... note that in this post, the word efficient was bolded. This was done to prevent the inevitable flaming that I would get had I said that one option was "better" than the other. There's a lot more to it than that... the application has to be taken into serious consideration as to which is truly a better option. There are plenty of situations where a supercharger will outshine a turbocharger, and vice-versa. However, when speaking in general terms (supercharger vs turbocharger) the mechanical efficiency of the two systems can not be argued. If both systems were to create 8lbs of boost on the same application, the turbocharger would indeed be more thermally and mechanically efficient while under boost than the supercharger would. "While under boost" is also important in this statement... because the supercharger is obviously more efficient from idle, up to the boost threshold of the turbocharger in question. Obviously, before that boost threshold is reached, a turbocharger is running at 0 efficiency, where as the supercharger is not. Again, this is all very generally speaking, and this is a very complex subject, but on average, turbochargers are indeed more efficient than superchargers

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Old 02-17-2008, 04:38 AM
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if u want 300+ hp you're gonna have to love your atts. if you wanna make male more hp than me with the jrsc u have to upgrade the pulley (not cheap) and then meth inject it to help keep the s/c cool. either way u r gonna have to built the engine. just do alot of research before you buy anything!
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