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how much trouble to make this amount of TQ & HP

 
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Old 01-23-2008, 05:03 AM
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Icon5 how much trouble to make this amount of TQ & HP

So I have owned the prelude for a few months now. Been reading up on things, and not wanting, nor can afford a turbo/super; how feasible is it to hit

HP : 170-190
TQ : 170-180

These ranges come from my baselines on my old ride. The prelude is fun to drive, but from reading off hand there isn't much of a way to get the torque up without some serious work [cash] internally? Which one could put in a bank and save for another car....Im seeing a lot of people that have prelude's have other cars/bikes as well....a lot of them are faster, and the lude becomes a civic HF, 3 series etta, diesel golf, you get the picture. I dont want a second car (would love a bike: XB12R) but strictly speaking I cant tear it completely apart since its my daily driver.....

Im not to sure cams [type s] cam gears, pistons [type s], TB, intake, header, hi flow cat, and exhaust will get me there.....i only mention the "s" stuff, since it doesnt need extra non-honda stuff. Plus, down the road when I sell it, rarely anyone wants to buy a modded ecu, custom rebuilt 10 year old car, let alone a turbo's or supercharged car, even with proper papers.....why? Because they were not the ones to personally be involved with picking the parts, seeing the car come alive, it wasnt their personal touch.......


So are the threads just toooo harsh on the car or am i being just wrong (-:
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:07 AM
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Well it should put down 160ish stock ( hp that is ) so ihe should do it man really. Type-s cams cost more then the brian crower stage two cams ( 600+ vs 450 with the bc cams being the cheaper )
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:12 PM
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I believe Crower makes a cam that is the same grind as a Type S cam, and it's still cheaper.
Stage 1 cams and a good tune will get you well over 170 pretty easily. If you want the 190 end of that range, then other things will need to be done. I don't reccomend getting a bigger cam than a Type S or Stage 1 without getting higher compression pistons. You will benefit, yes, but not nearly as well as you would with the pistons. I'd at least shoot for 180 whp.

Probably your best route given your situation, would be to go OEM. Type S cams and pistons and then a Euro R intake manifold with a good tune.
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:23 PM
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i believe even without having to change internals u could attain that much power and tq by having, I/M, Header, Exhaust, a good ecu and tune up
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:29 PM
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Well we're trying to get him a little past 171, lol. But you're right.
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:18 PM
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On another forum, a guy just dynoed his fairly low mileage 5th gen with i/h/e and made about 155-ish in tq. So this is what got me thinking....Of course it very bad to assume his car dyno will be similar to mine or vice versa, so I am in the process of getting an appt. to do a baseline on my car so I'm not talking out my ass or assumming anything.

now if i go with any internal changes wont i need to get adj. cam gears & tune. I know i have to have someone tune in the end period, b/c i certainly do not have the knowledge-yet.

When i first got here, i was thinking of spending money on the suspension, b/c my other car had a complete suspension makeover, then I realized that the Prelude handles pretty darn well stock. Tires are getting old but they will make it till this summer/fall. Again the car has only 29K miles on it and every thing is oem from the day it rolled off the showroom floor.

Then there is a ton of parts out there it seems, so i chickened out and bought a stereo setup for it 1st. Now thats done and Im back to reading about the florida girl that has had major trouble with her supposedly good tech, and I really dont want to go through things like that...and I don't have access to full garage like I used to in years past. Hence, I was thinking that a tech ought not too easily mess up dropping type S [or equivilent] cams, cam gears, maybe pistons, IM, TB???, and I can do a header [not sure which] Random tech hi-flo cat, and leaning towards a Greddy EVO [although i have no db restriction in Montana]. No weight reduction plans.
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:24 PM
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please dont make a header thread, me and E will just end up posting something like this;

Unless you spend big buckos your not going to get major gains, minimal.
Ebay header is same as DC sports and such, i own one. got it from E and i love it, made my engine feel smoother and such!
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:35 PM
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i agree, hence i said, "can do" & I try my best to stay away from ebay (aack)
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:37 PM
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as you can see there is a 150ftlb tq from just a greddy ecu / header and a damn good tune up oh and vtec changed to 4800rpm...i dont even have a sports exhaust..so it can be done
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:41 PM
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nice! but getting that last min. 20 tq. seems to be the stickler....
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:42 PM
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Your engine is a normal H22A or is it an S-Spec, Raggy?

And Yes, Tim is right. There's at least a dozen header threads on here. Check the 5th gen resource guide.

I'll let TEL chime in on his experiences with hp and torque. I think his first build dynod 232 whp or somewhere in that range, give or take 5 hp. I never rode in the car with that build but he told me it made crappy torque. The new build makes damn good torque (I rode in it ) but not quit as much hp as the last build.
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:44 PM
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YOur engine is a normal H22A or is it an S-Spec, Raggy?

And Yes, Tim is right. There's at least a dozen header threads on here. Check the 5th gen resource guide.
normal h22a4 but its amazing what u can do when u get ur car tuned by the right person who knows what they are doing..and believe me when i say u lose power and tq by using an intake other than the standard honda one there is one other factor to consider...we get 101 ron octane v-power in the UK which is a major factor

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nice! but getting that last min. 20 tq. seems to be the stickler....
then ur talking internals...
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:49 PM
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normal h22a4 but its amazing what u can do when u get ur car tuned by the right person who knows what they are doing..and believe me when i say u lose power and tq by using an intake other than the standard honda one there is one other factor to consider...we get 101 ron octane v-power in the UK which is a major factor
I'm thinking serious about getting a Type S intake since it has a little more functionality and it's stock to anybody who doesn't know about Ludes... not that anybody other than a few Luders will be seeing under the hood when I'm done anyway.
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:53 PM
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I'm thinking serious about getting a Type S intake since it has a little more functionality and it's stock to anybody who doesn't know about Ludes... not that anybody other than a few Luders will be seeing under the hood when I'm done anyway.
seriously speaking....do it...

I have tried countless intakes (AEM V2, K7N 57I, Carbon Dynamics, Apollo K&N)and my car is not even running rich. and on all of them i lost approx 10hp and a bit of tq plus pulled a couple of ounces of mercury which **** up ur engine..now i have a flat panel K&n drop in filter which works beautifully. the only good thing about aftermarket intakes is that shiny piping u get to see under the hood..preludes were designed for a closed induction system not for some crappy filter to sit on the top of ur intake sucking in hot air from ur engine and radiator

Last edited by R8GYY; 01-23-2008 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:56 PM
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I'm running an Injen with BPi Flowstack and K&N filter. I'm looking into something else besides my Prelude right now so I just gotta decide what I'm going to do. I'm not gonna say what it is because everyone will say, "Oh no, not again!"
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:58 PM
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I'm running an Injen with BPi Flowstack and K&N filter. I'm looking into something else besides my Prelude right now so I just gotta decide what I'm going to do. I'm not gonna say what it is because everyone will say, "Oh no, not again!"
dont tell me u have bought a volvo and are planning on modding that...lmao
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:46 PM
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Im not dwelling on a header, and I already have read through the resourse guides that's why I started the thread. There is a lot of mixed reviews, and once again, someone is thinking about getting a secondary car, and such. I have a drop in K&N and will be getting the Type S intake chamber as well. i have the H22a4 USDM car, and not sure what "raggy" means or in what context it was meant for Si speed? Is that the JDM? Anyways, of course I could spend a ton of money (if i had it) and do new valves, new valve springs, yada, yada, yada, but most of us have a limited budget and I also would be happy with the goal that I set in the 1st place. Im not a fan of body mods, bling, or big ass rims that require an amount of tq. equal to a D8 bulldozer to get them rolling. Nor do I want to drag this car, however the canyons & mtns. I do like. And that requires Tq. not 200 whp & 160 ft./lbs. of tq. Also, I do not see conclusive evidence that aftermarket coil packs work either. So I am going with a set of Magnacor KV85 wires, Denso plugs, and oem cap & rotor.

Unless I missed a post somewhere hope that answers a bit. We must pick wisely it seems (-:
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:50 PM
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i feel ya....i have heard good things about them magnecors and make sure u get platinum pzfr6-11 ngk plugs..they are the best ones.. i am not a made millionaire either and money dont grow on trees...just do what u can and good luck
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:54 PM
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well i grabbed the Denso Iridium's about 2 weeks ago & installed them already. Im getting terrible MPG (in the range of 19) so I grabbed them and the K&N. After i get a new cap/rotor & the KV85 & fuel filter(wix or eom), I will dyno the car for my 1st baseline :woot

a clean canvas to start with (-:
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:36 PM
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Clean your EGR, that turned into a big problem for me.

And no, it's not a Volvo. The European cars are all Brian.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:39 PM
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the egr valve so soon? hmmm.... Will do though...

I always wanted a Volvo T5r or was it the TR-5 station wagon....i saw this pix on the internet one time with it going over a hill and all the wheels were off the ground....(-: That's a soccer mom's car!!! lolol

Anyways, thanks for the input, it will be an interesting project though.
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:16 AM
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Your engine is a normal H22A or is it an S-Spec, Raggy?

And Yes, Tim is right. There's at least a dozen header threads on here. Check the 5th gen resource guide.

I'll let TEL chime in on his experiences with hp and torque. The new build makes damn good torque (I rode in it ) but not quit as much hp as the last build.

Torque... What it boils down to is this. The numbers really don't mean much. When I say don't mean much I'm talking as far as saying... "oh I have the highest torque." What the torque curve represents to me is the stibility of power. You cant have power without torque, so Horse power is codependent torque. So if you have a stable torque graph then you will yeild power. Hondas (both built and stock motors) are notorious for a flat torque curve. Which is what you want...

Bottom line the numbers don't mean much. All you should be concerned with is a stable and predictable graph. nothing choppy or have a dip in it.

R8GYY you have about 10ft.tq hidden where vtec crossesbased on your dynosheet you posted. Those are great number none the less

Ace
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:06 AM
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Torque... What it boils down to is this. The numbers really don't mean much. When I say don't mean much I'm talking as far as saying... "oh I have the highest torque." What the torque curve represents to me is the stibility of power. You cant have power without torque, so Horse power is codependent torque. So if you have a stable torque graph then you will yeild power. Hondas (both built and stock motors) are notorious for a flat torque curve. Which is what you want...

Bottom line the numbers don't mean much. All you should be concerned with is a stable and predictable graph. nothing choppy or have a dip in it.

R8GYY you have about 10ft.tq hidden where vtec crossesbased on your dynosheet you posted. Those are great number none the less

Ace

I hear ya buddy... the only reason for posting the dyno sheet was so i could show them that power and tq and 'stability' can still be attained without having to do internal mods and had no intention of making it look like i was showing off..I know the numbers dont mean much but was just giving an example of what a good tune could do...the 10ftlb tq that your talking about was a tough call..it was either 10ftlb tq or vtec changed back to 5500rpm..we tried every possible angle to squeeze it out by 'having our cake and eating it too' but it wasnt meant to be. lol
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:34 AM
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take a look at the hp:tq ratio. You're not going to get what you're after as far as your torque being a hair under your hp mark. This motor just doesn't work that way. All you need is the right mixture of parts and you'll be happy, I promise
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:55 PM
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Thanks for the graphs R8 & OG

R8 : Basically, that come from the plug & play ecu (1300.00) from Greddy, and tuning time? That's pricey for a module BUT it seems to do a pretty good job. I read about those and figured they were 90% a gimic. Now i know in the Euro world, VW & BMW's respond great to reflashes or chips etc.

OG: I like the flatness of the curve. looks like you hit max tq. around 6800 rpm? I'll look up what you have done to your car as well...

I read through "rosco's" website from another thread about the Euro R I.M. and found that interesting. But no tried and try dyno results. If one was to change out the camshafts, is it a large amount of labor to make the jump to getting the "s" pistons installed at the same time? I dont know about internals really, and someone was selling pistons for 220? i think.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:57 PM
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changing the cams should be easy enough but changing pistons...well thats a whole new ball game altogether but yeah..if ur gonna change the cams then do the pistons at the same time.. make sure u have a new head gasket handy though
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:21 PM
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ok OG i dound your intro thread, and well you dont count! lolol thats a boat load of fine work done!! The JIC's are way I wanted to go when I forst got the car, before realizing that I wasnt happy with the engine output....
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:25 PM
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ok so really the bottom end isnt cheap or easy in terms of labor on a H22a4- remember I will have to pay someone |-: so im back to the basic bolt ons and say semi intermediate bolt on's like the I.M. & camshafts. Would I swap out the injectors (440 RDX's) & fuel rail for any reason other than a better spray pattern=more effecient fuel burn?
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:28 PM
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no need to change injectors..only if you are going turbo or s/c...i/m and cams and cam gears would be a good start
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:40 PM
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good, one less thing to worry about. btw i just realized you are across the pond (-: Thanks for the help.
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