Honda Prelude Forum
 
Go Back   Honda Prelude Forum > Tech-Talk > 5th Gen Honda Prelude

Thread Title
venom and alot of questions.

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2007, 11:21 AM
98_lude's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: jackson MS
Posts: 96
iTrader: (3)
98_lude is on a distinguished road
venom and alot of questions.

i was thinking about venom intake manifold and skunk2 70mm throtle body will that work? or just get the skunk2 pro intake manifold with the skunk2 70mm throtle body. which one is better? do i have to tune after this modification?
cuze around my town its hard to find a good tune shop.i know i could have gone with the euro r type but you have to modifiy it to fit my h22a4.

i was going to get the skunk2 pro series 2 cams and valve train but changed my mind to just port and polishing the head.

i have a 98 automatic base lude ( in future ) iam planing on 75 wet shot its gona be either venom vcn-1000 or zex. i know i have to do a compresion test + some engine mods and ignition mods but what are some of the mods i could do on ECU before i put this on, like the vafc 2 or something else.

also if i ever wanted to do obd2 to obd1 convertion with p72 can i do this with having a automatic tranny.
__________________
98 lude...sold
93 z32
03 zx6
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2007, 11:57 AM
CHILLZ_VTEC's Avatar
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 395
iTrader: (0)
CHILLZ_VTEC is on a distinguished road
im not sure, but i dont think they have and ecu mod for automatic ludes man...except for crome, and a couple other ones i cant think of right now(i think)...i got an auto to man, but im goin s/c...and i would go with the skunk2 manifold and throttle body....and i wouldnt think you would have to tune since the lude runs rich from factory...i would just watch the a/f ratio after the addtion of those parts to see if you should tune it or not, i doubt it though...
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2007, 07:38 PM
98_lude's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: jackson MS
Posts: 96
iTrader: (3)
98_lude is on a distinguished road
yea i can't make my mind on going NA or FI iam just stuck, i was planing on going NA but if you calculate on going FI its going to be the same amout of money you spending to go NA. i was thinking about s/c but money is hard unless i could find a good used one with every thing. but now i might just save some money and build the bottoms up and work myself through the top. or get that venom kit. iam really tired of these people with cobras and srt4s betting me.
__________________
98 lude...sold
93 z32
03 zx6
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 12:55 AM
CHILLZ_VTEC's Avatar
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 395
iTrader: (0)
CHILLZ_VTEC is on a distinguished road
yeah man, going n/a is very expensive...you should read the "how to build a n/a h22" thread before choosing....i was gonna do the samething to make my lude a sleeper, but was just to much money for me, and also a lot of work....so thats why im going s/c, get about 240whp for a daily driver is good for me...
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 02:44 AM
Myles88's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 196
iTrader: (1)
Myles88 is on a distinguished road
Ya, you should really make up your mind before you spend money on the skunk equipment, it is completely pointless to get it if you dont have internal work done first, you would actually lose power putting the skunk 2 stuff on. I had the s2 intake manifold and it sucked, it not only put my chech engine light on because it removes the egr, i lost power, and then now as im going to put my s/c on, it wont work w/o the stock manifold b/c it uses the runners! so really think about what you wanna do
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:01 AM
Brash's Avatar
Super Roo mod

 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Lucky Country
Posts: 5,846
iTrader: (2)
Brash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond repute
Bollocks. I know two guys running S2 IM/TB on otherwise stock engine (tuned with AFC Neo) and both made good gains. However both say that they will need to fit a good header, cams and exhaust, as well as a retune to even get close to the potential allowed with the S2 stuff.
__________________

Request for rep = NO REP. Kthxbi. IF YOU ASK A STUPID QUESTION, OR MAKE A STUPID STATEMENT, YOU WILL GET A STUPID ANSWER!

FIFTH GENERATION RESOURCE GUIDE <<<-- USE IT, USE IT, USE IT!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:19 AM
Myles88's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 196
iTrader: (1)
Myles88 is on a distinguished road
That is true. I guess i look for power all through the power band though and i didnt get that. Its not a dyno, but when i ran quarter mile with the s2 mani, i ran .5 sec slwer than without it.

The s2 products do have a lot of potential, but if you are going to go N/A, getting internal work done first would result in more gain than the IM and TB, for the moment

If you go turbo, the s2 mani would be a good idea also, it has shown a 20hp gain over stock
s/c wont even work with it
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:35 AM
Brash's Avatar
Super Roo mod

 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Lucky Country
Posts: 5,846
iTrader: (2)
Brash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond reputeBrash has a reputation beyond repute
All things considered though, is the drag strip the best place to test it? I think not, since traction, air/tyre temperatures, relative humidity and all that other weather guff, not to mention you might have missed that "perfect" shift by one tenth each shift (which is easy enough done) etc.

I see merit and understand what your saying though. We need to think these things through before going into action.
__________________

Request for rep = NO REP. Kthxbi. IF YOU ASK A STUPID QUESTION, OR MAKE A STUPID STATEMENT, YOU WILL GET A STUPID ANSWER!

FIFTH GENERATION RESOURCE GUIDE <<<-- USE IT, USE IT, USE IT!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 11:25 AM
98_lude's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: jackson MS
Posts: 96
iTrader: (3)
98_lude is on a distinguished road
if go with venom vcn-1000 or zex is that considered to be FI, if so then thats where iam heading to. i will go and do a comprissoin test and post it here then yall can help me go from there.
__________________
98 lude...sold
93 z32
03 zx6
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 11:36 AM
BadMofo's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Riverton, NJ
Posts: 1,305
iTrader: (0)
BadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to BadMofo
To be honest with you I have never heard anything good about the S2 intake mani. (Other than what I just heard from Brash). I don't own one myself so I wouldn't know, but I have heard from numerous people that you actually loose HP with it even after a tune. (I believe 98vtec did a comparison of intake manifolds at one point, I could be wrong about that though... it all blurs together in my mind lol). If you really wanna find some good info on NA power, try to talk to 98vtec.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 11:53 AM
Si Speed's Avatar
VOID
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Equestria
Posts: 15,539
iTrader: (39)
Si Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98_lude View Post
i was thinking about venom intake manifold and skunk2 70mm throtle body will that work? or just get the skunk2 pro intake manifold with the skunk2 70mm throtle body. which one is better? do i have to tune after this modification?
cuze around my town its hard to find a good tune shop.i know i could have gone with the euro r type but you have to modifiy it to fit my h22a4.

i was going to get the skunk2 pro series 2 cams and valve train but changed my mind to just port and polishing the head.

i have a 98 automatic base lude ( in future ) iam planing on 75 wet shot its gona be either venom vcn-1000 or zex. i know i have to do a compresion test + some engine mods and ignition mods but what are some of the mods i could do on ECU before i put this on, like the vafc 2 or something else.

also if i ever wanted to do obd2 to obd1 convertion with p72 can i do this with having a automatic tranny.
70mm is too big man. I was going to put that on my high comp build but the guy I go to for advice when I get in jams convinced me to go slightly smaller so you definitely don't need that big.
You can get a Euro R from www.roskoracing.com and it's just bolt up. he does all the work for you but you will have to get an OBD1 ECU that supports VTEC. I'm not sure what all is out there as far as VTEC, OBD1, and automatic unless you get a manual swap. It would be very wise to go to OBD1 anyway and get it tuned for optimum gains. An OBD1 P72 is fine. You can also get a P28 but like I said, if you do a manual swap. You can get the Skunk2 but port match it to the throttle body size, as with any manifold. Personally I'm getting the Euro R. The S2 is good but really only on top end. A lot of boosted H22's like to use them. I don't recommend putting too much power to your auto tranny though.
Just in case you do get cams, get stage 1's and valvetrain upgrade if you don't build the bottom end.
If you run nitrous, get a real tune on an OBD1 ECU. VAFC is good if you're just running i/h/e since it's just a piggy back.
Do all the research you can though. The more you know, the better prepared you will be.
__________________
'94 Prelude Si - SOLD
'98 Prelude - SOLD
'05 TSX -

1200+ Ban Club
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 11:57 AM
BadMofo's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Riverton, NJ
Posts: 1,305
iTrader: (0)
BadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond reputeBadMofo has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to BadMofo
Here is some information gathered for you on the different manifolds. I did not write this. Proper thanks go to JTCdudeman on PP.

_______________

Ok guys, This stuff all pertains to the manifolds available for the H22.. Sorry everyone else as things can vary depending upon motor, but it a good reference no matter what...

SKunk2: price $350 or so 2 types available: pro .. normal

First here I will cover the skunk2 manifold.. It is a single runner designed manifold designed to make more power than the stock manifold on the h22... Results have shown this manifold can make more power, but it depends on the car, the application, and the tuner... The skunk2 manifold does take several modifications to get on the h22 and by no means is just a simple bolton and go... Several sensors have to be relocated and its not perfect... The design of the manifold leaves it almost appearing to be stock in form with skunk2's label on top of it.. This manifold is designed with drag racing in mind. It is a very peaky manifold that creates most of its power at high rpms.. Most commonly the power band is from 6800 up in which this manifold excels.. Which is ideal for someone wanting to make power all the way up to shift points.. With that in mind, it also loses alot of low end torque and performs worse than the stock manifold often out of vtec. That means its not nearly as fun to drive around town and not as useful for autocrossing type events..

Euro R: price $250 from hmotors

This manifold is from the Euro R accord that came with an h22 in it.. 220hp motor... Its also a single runner style like the skunk 2 manifold. It maintains the OEM look and feel along with reliability as it is OEM. It also has its problems with modifications... Meaning several have to be done to utilize this manifold on a regular or jdm h22... Not only are sensors an issue with this one, but you also have to figure out how to make your injectors fit in and work... The good news is a company makes an adaptor kit if your not capable of doing it yourself for right about $125 I believe... That puts the prices on a level playing field for the two... The Euro R is designed to make more power in the middle rpm range than the skunk 2. This means it gives up less low end torque, but doesnt make as much power up high... If you research about power under the curve or useable power you will find that its much better for around town and autocross use to have a manifold like this one... Its powerband performs better than stock from about 4k rpms typically all the way up... In reality, this IM makes a much larger powerband than the skunk2 and stock manifolds...


Stock: price: free CAN BE MODIFIED

The stock manifold is a dual runner design and is very much standard for dual runner designs... The secondaries open up right around 4800 rpm to increase volume and stay in the efficiency range of the airflowing abiilities of the manifold.. It creates good low end torque and pretty good high end power.. Its almost on a similar principal as vtec because it operates differently at different rpms... Its not a bad manifold to start with, but it has its limitations and is by no means really efficient...

Modifications... It is possible to modify the stock manifold to make more power... A company called blacktrax currently modifys parts of the stock manifold to make more power out of it, but is as costly as one of the other designs... Ive yet to be impressed with their work, but they are another good option....


Turbo IM: price: all over the place

This is more of a general description, but should cover turbo IM's pretty well... Turbo IM's are designed with completely different plenums, runner lengths, and runner sizes than N/A manifolds and should be used for the specified application... Its not reasonable to use a turbo IM and expect to make power on a N/A car... These manifolds are designed to flow much larger volumes of COMPRESSED air into a head... If your shopping for a turbo manifold, choose based upon reviews and your desired application... These are much simpler to make, get right, and work with as they are not nearly as crucial for making a difference to power...Personally I have the Venom one and love some things about it and hate others.. such is life...


JG: price: $500


Very very good manifolds designed both for turbo and N/A applications come out of this company... These manifolds are all custom made to best suite your application, power band, and desired looks... They are made from sheetmetal and perform great... The only problem is, you have way to many options with these... They can make them for peaky, low end torque, mid range power, upper mid range power, ETC... These manifolds are used widely in the racing world and always perform well and much better than stock...

Problems: last I checked, 3/06... They did not make an application for a prelude as something kept intefering and their attempts to work around it were not making as much power as their other manifolds... They make h22 applications for civics and such... Just call them if your interested and see whats going on with them... jgenginedynamics.com
They were my #1 choice for IM for the h23vtec, but they told me they were still having issues with things not working out perfectly yet...


Now, I know there are other IM's available out there... Most all of them are turbo applications and as I stated above its sort of you get what you pay for with them... And theres no point in covering so so performing expensive as hell CF ones... If you've got another one Ill cover it and add it to the list.. Just ask...
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 06:11 PM
98_lude's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: jackson MS
Posts: 96
iTrader: (3)
98_lude is on a distinguished road
love pz thanks for the infos.
__________________
98 lude...sold
93 z32
03 zx6
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2007, 07:10 PM
Si Speed's Avatar
VOID
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Equestria
Posts: 15,539
iTrader: (39)
Si Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond reputeSi Speed has a reputation beyond repute
^^ What we're here for!
__________________
'94 Prelude Si - SOLD
'98 Prelude - SOLD
'05 TSX -

1200+ Ban Club
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:40 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


Copyright © 2006-2009 PreludeZone.com All Rights Reserved.