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Old 12-13-2007, 08:09 PM
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exhaust

well i have a 2 1/2" pipe already but its all rusty n stuff but does it really matter if i change out the pipe or could i just get a muffler? i kno its a stupid question but i dont want my car sounding bad becuase lots of young kids around me jus put mufflers on n its terrible.
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Old 12-13-2007, 08:13 PM
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i would buy a new cat back....cuz if its rusted too bad it will get hooles and make it sound bad...
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:39 PM
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ya you might as well replace it like hondaneedsnos said, it will save you time and money if your old one is rusting by getting a new one that is rust proof like a apexi n1 or greddy exhaust.
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:42 PM
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especially if you live up north and theres a lot of salts on the road.. get some stainless steel piping
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:49 PM
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so you already have an exhaust on it? or is it stock and you just want something new ?
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:59 PM
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well its not stock but its not like a custom exhaust either... its jus 2 1/2 inch piping wit the stock muffler... but if i got the custom exhaust it would be 2 1/2 piping so i would jus be replacing the piping. idk im still learnin some **** and would rather get stuff done to the engine right now
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Old 12-14-2007, 01:38 AM
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see if u can find a good muffler cheap then get the pipe welded it will be much cheaper than buying a catback,
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:59 AM
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New custom pipe doesn't cost much. Use the muffler of your choice and get custom piping.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:04 AM
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agreed^
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:07 AM
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^ x2

Just go with a universal muffler, and take that bitch to Meineke and have them run custom pipe. It's fairly cheap I believe. That's what I plan on doing myself... I'm gonna get a high flow cat, a Tanabe Tuner Racing Medallion muffler, and some 60mm/2.25in custom piping. It'll end up saving you like 300 bucks give or take in the long run.
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Old 12-14-2007, 12:33 PM
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i asked meineke to do that and they said it would be about $400-$500.....Im gettin an apexi ws2 for $440 now and a race shop around here is installing it for $100...so either way i think your gonna be payin about $500 imo...
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Old 12-14-2007, 01:39 PM
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^ Wow, that's way overpriced. I have a buddy who works at the Meineke near me, and he said he would do the piping for 200. I guess he was hooking me up with a big discount... I thought that was just their price lol...
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Old 12-14-2007, 04:50 PM
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I think I saw in another post to use stainless steal, I believe its T 304 Stainless is what you want. That will fix your rust problem. Also remember I am a firm believer in " You get what you pay for. " So another words you buy cheap you get cheap. It will save you loads of money to buy it right the first time, thrust me.
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Old 12-14-2007, 07:25 PM
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For all the people talking about "custom" piping (being done at the local muffler shop), you DO realize that you are far more likely to actually LOSE power than anything else right?

I mean, the factory piping on these things is already mandrel bent, and the stock cat/muffler/resonator combo is NOT very restrictive anyway................why do you think that aftermarket catbacks usually only make 2-3whp on a 5th gen car?

Seriously.........I guarantee that press/crush bent dog**** piping and a universal fart-cannon is going to do nothing but make you slower.........and sound like crap.




So............either shell out the big bucks for a decent exhaust (like a Greddy or something similar), or stay stock.

Anything else just proves you are a tard (unless you are, or know, one HELL of a good custom fabricator who actually knows what the **** you are doing).
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Old 12-14-2007, 07:33 PM
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i don't know anything about all that. all i know is the muffler shop will do mine custom with 2.5 for like 140.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:40 PM
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im sry but the stock exhaust is restrictive on any car. no matter what anyone says. the only way u can hurt power is by getting to big of a pipe
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:56 AM
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yea i paid 180 for my pacesetter but everyone says its really ricey...i think it has a hole where the second O2 goes but i donno it that would make it higher that harlem for the pitch
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LOL my comment gets removed but the ricer can tell me to go **** myself.... awesome.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:02 AM
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For all the people talking about "custom" piping (being done at the local muffler shop), you DO realize that you are far more likely to actually LOSE power than anything else right?

I mean, the factory piping on these things is already mandrel bent, and the stock cat/muffler/resonator combo is NOT very restrictive anyway................why do you think that aftermarket catbacks usually only make 2-3whp on a 5th gen car?

Seriously.........I guarantee that press/crush bent dog**** piping and a universal fart-cannon is going to do nothing but make you slower.........and sound like crap.




So............either shell out the big bucks for a decent exhaust (like a Greddy or something similar), or stay stock.

Anything else just proves you are a tard (unless you are, or know, one HELL of a good custom fabricator who actually knows what the **** you are doing).
Thats actually pretty true. A friend of mine who has done exhaust work for my dad and me on older chevy trucks who does fabulous work told me to get a pre fab cat back. He said with the research that goes into them he cant build me anything that would be as good. He said I can swap out piping and get you a little more grunt to it and charge you the same or can get something that will actually give some kind of worth while results. Another parts shop owner has said that the big downfall with small displacement high reving engined cars is factory exhaust and ignition.
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:08 PM
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So like 80% of the people on here said, get a pre-made exhaust from a very well known company. Its worth it. Going the shorter/cheaper route gets you no where, i did it for 2 years on my 4th gen, and you will spend more money in the long run than doing it right the first time. PLUS its nice to say, "oh ya, i have a apexi N1 exhaust with high flo header blah blah!" than saying, "ya i got it done at meinike, and its got a can from autozone."...lame
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:54 PM
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im sry but the stock exhaust is restrictive on any car. no matter what anyone says. the only way u can hurt power is by getting to big of a pipe
Bull****.

Have you ever even LOOKED at the piping on a 5th gen? It IS mandrel bent, and go take a look at some dyno charts..............catbacks do NOT offer much of a gain over stock (usually a couple of whp as I stated earlier).

Therefore............the stock setup is NOT very restrictive




So......go buy yourself that craptastic crushbent piping from Midas and watch your car make LESS power than stock.........even WITH a free-er flowing muffler/resonator combo.

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Old 12-15-2007, 03:55 PM
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i don't know anything about all that. all i know is the muffler shop will do mine custom with 2.5 for like 140.
If you want to WASTE $140, I can give you my fiancee's Paypal account number...........

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And oddly enough, the older they are, the faster they are.........when they aren't broke that is
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:09 PM
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ok everyone has a differnt oppinion...
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:11 PM
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i would just save the hassle and get a cat back...i agree that ones ppl make dont give u power and most wont be as reliable...



but speaking of exhausts...i got in mine today and it dont sound rice anymore =)
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:16 PM
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ok everyone has a differnt oppinion...
Yeah, but mine isn't an opinion............it's backed up by fact.



What it comes down to is simple:


Are you looking for power, a cleaner sound and quality/longevity?

If so, buy a pre-made aftermarket catback like a Greddy.



If, on the other hand, you are looking for some pipe to replace the rusted stuff that's on the car now and don't give a **** about power or sound (outside of LOUD!!), go to your local Midas and have at it.
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And oddly enough, the older they are, the faster they are.........when they aren't broke that is
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:33 PM
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if you want custom exhaust go to kteller.com. they have prebent pipes to fit our cars in almost any size. and they have all types of mufflers to choose from too. their pipes are mandrel bent also. i bet you will actually pay less buying piping from kteller then meineke.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:09 AM
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Man, just go ahead and get a cat-back system...its worth the money, you do not want to get a pos muffler system from meineke and regret it later because of power loss, or because it sounds like crap...when you do something, especially on a car, do it right the first time...because it could save you money in the long run....
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbuls View Post
I mean, the factory piping on these things is already mandrel bent, and the stock cat/muffler/resonator combo is NOT very restrictive anyway................why do you think that aftermarket catbacks usually only make 2-3whp on a 5th gen car?
^^ Precisely why I find it a little hard to justify spending 500-1000 dollars on a cat-back exhaust. Why pay 800 bucks for something that is gonna give you 2-3 whp??? Where's the justification in that?

Oh, and mandrel bent or not... it comes down to two simple things... flow and velocity. If you can maximize your flow without restricting your velocity, you are going to gain hp, regardless of how your pipe is bent dude. (For instance, going too big will increase your flow potential, but restrict pressure resulting in less velocity on the exhaust output.. resulting in little to no gains, or even a loss in hp... you have to find a happy medium... increasing pipe size enough to increase flow, but not destroy your velocity potential). It's a popular misconception that your engine needs backpressure to function properly... this is false. If your exhaust had too much back pressure, it would be detrimental to your performance... the whole point of your exhuast is to do just that... exhaust your used gases from your motor as efficiently as possible. And the best way to do that is to find a happy medium for maximum potential flow and velocity. Think of it like this. Turn on your garden hose, with no nozzle on it, and no finger over it. Now take your garden hose and fill up a 5 gallon bucket and time it. Now repeat the test, this time using your thumb to restrict the opening of the hose. Does the bucket fill up faster or slower??? Is the water exit speed faster or slower??? The bucket will fill up slower because you just restricted the opening... lowering the flow which is measured in gallons per minute... obviously the more gallons per minute you are allowing then the faster you are going to fill the bucket... HOWEVER... by restricting that opening... you have just created more pressure inside the hose... causing the water to exit the hose with a higher velocity even though it has a lower flow. That's why the spray will actually come out faster and spray farther (more pressure is applied), while not actually increasing the maximum flow at all. You following me here? So you want to find a happy medium of flow:velocity. That is why people think that "back pressure is important". Back pressure isn't really what is important... flow and velocity are.

Air/exhaust gases don't give a **** about how the pipe was bent man.. Mandrel or not, as long as the piping isn't excessively pinched somewhere. The important factors are the inside diameter of the pipe, the length/shape/degree of the bends, and the C-Factor of the inside of the pipe. (C-factor is the friction loss coefficient. The higher this number is, the smoother the inside of the pipe is. Different materials have different c-factors that are pre determined by a code committee).

I'm not sure about the pneumatic equations, but for hydraulic equations, pressure loss can be determined by using an equation known as the hazen-williams formula. Pd (pressure loss in PSI/ft) = (4.52 x Q^1.85[q is flow in gpm])/(C^1.85 x d^4.87[d is inside diameter in inches]). So for instance, say the hazen williams formula determines that you are losing .057 psi per foot... over 10 feet... that means that in those 10 feet, you are going to lose .57PSI (not taking into other things like fittings, welds, bends etc...) and your velocity output will reflect that... so I ask you... what difference does it make whether it is mandrel bent or not???

If you are going to say you have something that can be backed up by fact... please... educate the rest of us.

This concludes your introduction to fluid mechanics.

Last edited by BadMofo; 12-17-2007 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:13 AM
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very well put^
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:27 AM
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nice! he justified me getting a custom exhaust for cheap!
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:47 AM
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Yerp... and I'm not trying to say that the quality of a custom pipe is better than or equal to a cat-back... because it's not... I'm just saying that as long as the bends aren't crushing the pipe excessively, and cutting down on the ID of the pipe by too much, then it doesn't matter. What he was saying DOES have some merrit. Mandrel bending is a better bending procedure. Much less likely to cut down on the ID of the pipe that way...

My point is... you don't need to come in here ranting and raving like your word is gospel, and if you are gonna say that what you're saying is fact... then back it up with some proof. Not just "mine isn't opinion, it's fact". Come in and say, "crush bending has a tendency to produce more bottlenecks compared to mandrel bending".

Also... by saying that paying 140 for a 2.5 inch custom exhuast is a waste of money.. and then in the same breath saying that paying 5-800 dollars for a aftermarket brand name cat-back will only get you 2-3 more WHP... aren't you kind of talking yourself in a circle??? Which one really makes more sense?

Bottom line is... it's your call OP. If you want the bragging rights to be able to say "I have an (insert brand here) exhuast system," then by all means... go for it. Of course it's nice to be able to brag a bit about what you got... especially if you are goin for a show car or something like that... But if you are on a budget, and you are simply looking to spice up your ride a bit... get a GOOD muffler (not an auto-zone bin muffler or a meineke brand), a good CAT, and have someone custom pipe it. Just realize that either way you go, you're not gonna see a substantial performance increase from exhuast alone. You are simply providing your engine with better breathing efficiency. Now if you add some more modifications, then you will begin to see a difference between stock exhaust and upgraded exhaust.
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