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CEL code problem

 
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:49 AM
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CEL code problem

Hey guys

I have a CEL code on my 98 Prelude and i was wondering what is the cause.
The codes are: 6 7 10 12 (atleast as far as i've been able to decrypt them)

So little background before symptoms, I was driving one night and the car ran fine without any indication of problem, the next morning however when i went to turn on my car i noticed the CEL lighted up, thought to myself ''how weird'' then i read the codes and it gave me: 6 and 10.
Me being a dumbass thought to myself ''hey, i know how to read these and ended up with 61 as the code'' (i didnt remember how the flashes worked, thought the short ones were 10s and longs 1s). + i looked at the older model honda OBD codes and ended up with the conclusion that O2 sensor was busted, so i ordered new one, installed it and nothing changed...except the number of codes multiplied.

So after longer research i found the correct ones for it and how to read the actual code (given that it blinked like a mofo so i tried to decypher it the best way i could and ended up with those 6,7,10 and 12.

Now ive read what they are: ECT sensor (6) TP sensor (7) IAT sensor (10) EGR valve lift sensor (12).
But i find it very odd that they would break all of a sudden almost at the same time.

Symptoms:
Long crank (the car coughs while starting) Notice, it doesnt have long crank when warm, only cold start.
No choke (apparently as i have to hold my leg on throttle or otherwise the car will just stall)
High idle while coasting with clutch in (about 1200 rpm)
And hesitation when engine braking (the car will ''leap'' forward after engine braking for couple seconds)

Everything else is working as intended
No misfire while driving
Doesnt hesitate when floored
Coolant temp normal (not above or below normal)

So if you got any suggestions im all ears, i got a spare car where i can go and find all of these parts, but im hesitating between switching the parts or if the ECU has problems and that needs to be switched.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:55 AM
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Re: CEL code problem

hows your cars maintenance history?

Id check wiring, grounds, fuses and relays first - kinda weird that theres multiple sensor faults suddenly

if your maintenance is NOT up to date:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeT View Post
quick what to do list

usually these things fix bad idle or/and hesitations:

- new spark plugs & wires
- new distributor cap & rotor
- new air/fuel filters
- clean injectors/iacv/egr/fitv
- bleed the coolant
- new pcv
- adjust valves and ignition
- adjust idle from tb's screw and throttle cable
- check does sensors work properly: map, iat and tps (and try calibrating tps)
- then check wires, connectors and hoses

check o2 sensors and vacuum/exhaust leaks (check all the seals - IM/header/TB gaskets, injector seals, maybe even buy valve cover gasket set...)
check timing. after that: double check timing

clogged cat might you give some trouble as well (usually when driving) - check cats condition

if none of these seem to work - do compression and leak tests
and if you have chipped ecu and youre running it just with basemap, it might not work as well than properly tuned one

those are basic maintenance as well.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:43 AM
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Re: CEL code problem

It does seem to have good maintenance history, last inspection (kuntotarkastus(?)) was done at 280000km and the car now has 330000km.
Every timing belt change and oil change has been done regularly.

Spark plugs, Spark wires, Distributor cap and rotor all have been renewed around 80000km ago.

Well, seems like i got alot of parts that i should go and switch and see if anything works.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:26 PM
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Re: CEL code problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post

Spark plugs, Spark wires, Distributor cap and rotor all have been renewed around 80000km ago.
You should definitely new those
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:26 PM
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Re: CEL code problem

So wanted to come just to specify the symptoms a tad bit more.

Ive come to the conclusion that the issues are related to cold start and idle.
Everything else function normally, acceleration (hard and soft) and cruising speed.

Idle is 1200rpm after driving and the engine warms up, it will stick to 1100-1200 rpm and stay there.
When i start the car while its warm the rpm will be normal 800ish rpm but after 5 mins of idling it will start creeping up to 1000rpm (ever so slowly, not rapid increase). Revving does not make difference in idle rpm, it will go back to 800rpm.
Only after driving it will stick to 1200rpm

It does not like gas pressing while its cold starting, so when it fires up (fully, not just coughing) it will stall when given gas quickly or too much, but after couple more tries, it will respond normally (rev up smoothly) to gas.

While im starting it and it finally starts and i keep the rpm around 2000-2500 for around 10 seconds and release gas it will drop to choke rpm (1400ish) but the needle will jump between 1300-1500.

When the car is warm and i start it, the rpm will stay solid 800 (before it creeps its way upwards)
and after driving and the idle stays at 1200, it will not fluctuate to any direction, its solid 1200.

Engine brake does not ''engage'' when at around 2000rpm.
While im trying to engine brake at 2000rpm and press clutch in, theres no change in momentum, it doesnt roll faster or slower.

As far as ive read these symptoms can be caused by the sensors that are broken according to OBD right ?
So if anyone has some idea of how to go around measuring these sensors then im happy to do it.

I havent yet gone and bought new distributor cap, rotor, wires and plugs, i would rather start with the cheap solution (switching sensors, since i can get them for free)
but i did open the cap and check inside and everything looked practically new (ofc slight wear was there,but nothing major) and it was dry and dirt free also.

Checked grounds (the ones that i was able to find) and they were all tight and corrosion free.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:10 AM
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Re: CEL code problem

Okay, more updates on the situation.

I havent checked all grounds (my god they are well hidden)

I changed the "main ground" that goes from battery negative to frame and transmission, it was stripped but changing didnt have any effect.

I also tried to read the TPS to my best knowledge, i took the plug out and measured the pins on the connector itself not the sensor and i got 5v from both leftmost and rightmost pins against battery negative and 0,4 from the middle one, i havent gone around with finding good pieces of wire to probe the sensor and test the operation range, but im most confused about getting double 5v from the connector, is it normal and im dumb or is this something to be concerned about? Measured with power on, car off
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:36 AM
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Re: CEL code problem

Update 3.0

Switched EGR valve lift sensor and also cleaned the one i put in (used, but functional when the spare car was last driven) No change, still getting code all the codes.

Switched ECU, 2 codes dropped out, #7 and #12. Car would not start (tried 2 times for approx 5-8 sec starting, not even a cough).
Not sure if the spare ECU is busted aswell since its been sitting outside in the spare car for the last 2 years.

Switched the original ECU back and all 4 error codes came back but car started immediately (the engine was still warm).

This is seriously getting more confusing after everything i try.

Is there something in common with these 4 sensors ? same ground that no other sensor shares (?)

Checked fuses, nothing is broken (except daylight fuse, it only brought lights when the switch is (OFF) position and car is running)
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:05 PM
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Re: CEL code problem

have you downloaded car manuals?:

Honda Prelude 1997-2000 Service Manual
1997-2001 Prelude Electrical Troubleshooting Manual
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:16 AM
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Re: CEL code problem

Yup, i found one online and im studying in right now trying to troubleshoot this.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:22 AM
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Re: CEL code problem

Possible cause found, i was checking the main wire harness plugs to see if they were connected and i happened to glance at the firewall and noticed the rubber of the wire harness was ripped and in the wire harness itself i noticed that atleast 2 wires were just straight up cut.
So ill be tomorrow seeing if its easy to switch the whole harness or if i can repair the wires somehow and hope that the issues go away.
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