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Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

 
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Old 01-31-2017, 07:06 PM
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Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

OK, Here it goes...

I have a 5th gen prelude circle track car. I belive its a 99 or 00 type SH.

The thing is, its not your ordinary race car. Its called a Stacker race car. Ill try and get a picture up of it. What it is, is a prelude on the bottom, and I have a Fiero attached to it on the roof. You may have seen similar racing on Top Gear a few years back....

Anyways, the car is designed so that the top car does the steering and the bottom car does the pedal work. Yes, its straight up Hillbilly and quite fun. There are about 6 of us that race at a local track.

We race on a 1/4 mile paved oval.

Our problem with the car is that we constantly keep getting the ATTS light coming on and that would be something that is handy with the racing we are doing.

The vehicle is on coil overs, lowered, cambered accordingly for left turns. The steering wheel on the car has been disconnected and has since been spun many times freely with the ignition on and off.

My question is...... Is there any way to hardwire the ATTS so that it is constantly on??

Could the steering angle sensor just be the culprit? I'm assuming the spinning of the loose steering wheel didn't help the sensor.
We have "reset" the sensor in the past and the light just came back on.

I did have the code numbers at one point, but I don't at this time.


Its a weird request on an even more weird car, but I am looking for some input.

Thanks in advance.


stacker pic.jpg
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Old 01-31-2017, 07:08 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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Old 01-31-2017, 10:32 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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Could the steering angle sensor just be the culprit?
Possibly. Or sensor readings due to the radically changed alignment. Or the change in weight distribution due to the new superstructure. Or a malfunctioning sensor.

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Originally Posted by stackerlude View Post
Is there any way to hardwire the ATTS so that it is constantly on??
No -- and you wouldn't want it that way, either. ATTS doesn't respond just to steering angle -- the system response also depends on speed, yaw rate, and calculated lateral acceleration. It's a rheostat, not an on-off switch.

If you can't figure out what's wrong, you might be better off simply replacing it with a limited-slip differential -- that won't give you the power transfer across the front end, but you'd combat the effects of your taller car leaning.
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Old 02-01-2017, 01:56 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

man thats some crazy sheet right there.

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Old 02-01-2017, 02:46 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

ATTS could be on because normally it reads sensors off the stock steering wheel column
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:08 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

never seen that before.. why is this even a thing? lol
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:36 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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never seen that before.. why is this even a thing? lol

I thought the same thing when this race class came up..... I figured why not??
I was able to buy the prelude for $1800 and parted out everything I didn't need for $1200 Haha


The factory steering column is still there, it is just not connected to the steering gear.


I was just curious why a feature of a car that allows better traction when pushing it to the limits, would become disabled when im actually pushing the car to the limits....

That's why I was thinking that maybe the steering sensor could be at fault. Is there any way to check?
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:38 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

im not a 5th gen expert but wouldn't the extra weight throw off the ATTS?
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:53 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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im not a 5th gen expert but wouldn't the extra weight throw off the ATTS?

Realistically there isn't that much weight added. Yes, you do have another vehicle on top of your car, but the fiero weighed maybe 800lbs or so when it was put on.
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:13 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

Could it be as simple as.... There is a steering sensor on the column itself, if the column doesn't move when the wheels turn then the whole system is going to get very upset.

2 options I see, either delete the ATTS and if you want the extra traction throw in a LSD, or re-connect the steering column and let the steering wheel go nuts.
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:59 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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Realistically there isn't that much weight added. Yes, you do have another vehicle on top of your car, but the fiero weighed maybe 800lbs or so when it was put on.
The static weight, no, but that 800 lbs is way up high, so the weight transfer in the turns gets interesting....
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:46 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
Could it be as simple as.... There is a steering sensor on the column itself, if the column doesn't move when the wheels turn then the whole system is going to get very upset.

2 options I see, either delete the ATTS and if you want the extra traction throw in a LSD, or re-connect the steering column and let the steering wheel go nuts.


What's it like to install a LSD in the car? Any cheat ways like the old Lincoln lockers you could do to rear wheel drive vehicles? You need to remember, this is low budget and these will obviously not see the road. I also have another car strapped to the roof..... big jobs are a little difficult. I am a mechanic, so I do have all the required tools.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:58 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

to add a LSD trans to this car you will need to fabricate a small plate and half shaft to bolt in where the ATTS unit would be since that acts like the half shaft right now. then you would also need to buy a LSD transmission and a new driver side axle. you might get a permanent ATTS light on the dash but just pull the bulb since at that point it wouldn't be a feature
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Old 02-02-2017, 02:00 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

i'm just trying to get this straight
lsd is better than atts on our cars, right?
lsd is consant and mechanical, right?
there is just so many inputs and variables for atts to work.
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Old 02-02-2017, 02:07 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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lsd is better than atts on our cars, right?
right
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Old 02-02-2017, 03:51 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

Well, not exactly. An LSD is better in certain situations and ATTS (if working) is better in others.

An LSD will, as the name implies, allow a little bit of slip but limit the relative difference in speed between each wheel. This means you can turn a corner without the inside wheel skipping (like with a locked diff) or the outside wheel slipping as easily (like open diffs).

ATTS was Honda's fancy way of trying to electronically control the torque split to each wheel to actually increase turning performance, not just make it less crap. It has planetary gears and clutches inside just like a mini auto transmission. The ATTS (if working) can vary the slip of each side in order to apply extra torque to the outside wheel to help push the car to the apex of the corner. It's the same principal as yaw control in Evo's and Honda's SH-AWD system except those can play with the back wheels too.

Problem is if ATTS fails then it just becomes an open diff, an LSD is mechanical so is less prone to failure except for the total kind. ATTS is complicated and heavy too, it can't be all bad though if it was a stepping stone to the new NSX's amazeballs handling.
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:19 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

Thanks Tassievteclude. I want to get a 6 speed LSD when my ATTS fails. I never really messed with it but it just seems too complicated to repair and parts may be even harder to find. I believe the ATTS on our cars can only handle up to 250 horse power. So more power is better off with LSD. However, I know I have not used the full potential of my Type-SH.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:33 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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Thanks Tassievteclude. I want to get a 6 speed LSD when my ATTS fails. I never really messed with it but it just seems too complicated to repair and parts may be even harder to find. I believe the ATTS on our cars can only handle up to 250 horse power. So more power is better off with LSD. However, I know I have not used the full potential of my Type-SH.
what 6 speed trans are you using?
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Old 02-02-2017, 05:35 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

^^ Woohoo, Mat's doing a K-Swap???
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:39 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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what 6 speed trans are you using?
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^^ Woohoo, Mat's doing a K-Swap???
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:41 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

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I believe the ATTS on our cars can only handle up to 250 horse power. So more power is better off with LSD. However, I know I have not used the full potential of my Type-SH.
proper tune of these engines need good engine management (like hondata which means you need to change ecu) and ATTS is controlled by stock ecu (which you cannot touch if you want to keep ATTS working).. thats the main problem.
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Old 02-08-2017, 01:08 PM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

Thanks for all of the input guys.

I have another question that I'm sure everyone has asked at some point...... I am new-ish to the prelude scene, so I don't know of what the most effective power gain mods are to these cars.

This car is obviously not street legal and will never see the streets ever, what is the best way so squeak out a few more ponies out of this beast? It is afterall, a race car (Kinda haha)


I would say the most effective under $500-1000
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:41 AM
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Re: Strange question for one-of-a-kind Prelude

^ depends what can you do for it - what are the rules?

with SH youre pretty much stuck when you cant change the ecu so no good engine management for you or you lose ATTS

So options: reducing weight, good header and 3" exhaust, adjustable cam gears

maybe port your intake manifold
+ then theres this: http://www.blacktrax.net/products/In..._Manifold.html

but since its harder/impossible to make new fuel maps for your upgrades yuor hands are kinda tied
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