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Old 06-19-2016, 09:03 PM
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First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Hey guys,

Long time reader of this and other Honda forums but first time joiner

A bit of a read...

I've got a Nighthawk Black 99 Type SH with just over 250k miles, last owner mentioned previous owner had done a engine refresh...my fanging so far without hiccups (touch wood) is a testament that it's holding up. Plus I got it cheap, under 3k. Had a new clutch from Honda and whole lot of other service items done...the receipt were more than the sold price

It's bone stock apart from headunit and door speakers. The ride is quite uncomfortable and noisy, time for some new parts! Tried new shocks (and learned about the front perch issue the hard way) but it's still the same. Front makes horrible noise over speed bumps and rear is clanking over rough surfaces.

I thought since I'm not gonna be slave to the banks anytime soon with monthly repayments, I'm gonna inject some new life into this daily driver car. Anything with rubber/bushings underneath the car will be replaced. I want this thing to feel like granite.

For now what I want to do is:

- BC BR Coilovers (Not Koni/GC/Teins/K-sport etc)
- New Moog Front Upper Control Arms
- New Moog Rear Upper Control Arms
- New A1 Cardone Drive Shafts
- New Moog Inner Tie Rod Ends
- New Beck Arnley Outer Tie Rod Ends
- New Mevotech Rear Control Arm and Ball Joint Assembly
- New Bosch Rotors and Pads
- Brake Flush and Power Steering Flush

From past experience I don't want to replace just the bushings...boody nightmare. Hence I decided to fork out and buy replacement parts. I tried to find Mood parts where I could but with rest I just went with what was available. I don't have experience with A1 Cardone, Beck Arnley or Mevotech (any input?).

Those of us paying attention may have noticed the absence of LCAs. That's because I'm having a super hard time finding any for Type SH. Seems like no one makes front or rear LCA for type SH apart from Honda and they charge $280 for the front 2 and $480 for the rear 2 (the pic on HondaPartsNow doesn't show if the 2 bushes are included with the RLCA).

How do Type SH owners get around this? No one...and I mean no one makes LCA for Type SH? I understand Type SH is not as common but still...


For later what I want to do is:

- Single Din Flip out 7" GPS Unit
- Rear Camera
- Front Lip
- Wider Wheels/Tires
- Short Shifter
- Tinted Windows
- Replace cabin filter
- Red Carpet/Floor Mats
- Rear Sway Bar
- Upgrade Speakers/Amp/Sub

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Old 06-19-2016, 11:36 PM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

I've had the mevotech adjustable upper balljoints on my car for quite awhile now and they haven't given me any issues so far (except they can hit the inside of the wheel well if you really bottom out the suspension). I've had bad luck buying aftermarket axles, this time around I went with some re manufactured OEM axles from raxles. They're more expensive then new cardone axles but cheaper then new OEM and higher quality then cardone IMO.

I've never seen lower control arms for the SH for sale by anyone except by Honda themselves. Its not so hard to do the lower control arm bushings on the SH IMO, you can do it with a hacksaw, hammer and a chisel if you don't have a press. Its harder to do balljoints methinks. If you do change the bushings and want a really solid feel then I'd recommend the poly bushings from energy suspension.
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Old 06-20-2016, 03:17 PM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Are you sure you want to put that much money into a 17 year old 250k mile car that is discontinued? especially if you are daily driving it?

I mean, if you got the time and money, then go for it. Get the LCA from Honda.
I'm driving my 2001 type-sh until it doesn't drive no longer, saving up for a newer vehicle. However, I wouldn't skip on anything crucial like engine, transmission, and drivetrain components. Those get priority.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:18 PM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

^^ Don't listen to this guy, if you want to spend money maintaining/upgrading your own car then go right ahead. IMO Prelude's still handle better and look nicer than many more modern cars out there at a fraction of the cost. I agree that having a sweet suspension means nothing if the rest of the car falls into disrepair though, so don't ignore obvious maintenance issues for the sake of upgrading.

Saying that, your list is pretty comprehensive and maybe a little over the top. Replace things that need replacing for sure, but don't go replacing just for the sake of it. See what is worn out/damaged/broken and assess it from there. Control arms don't wear out, only the bushes and ball joints. My 'lude is now over 22 years old and has over 130,000 miles on it and all of the ball joints are still like new. IMO you shouldn't need camber adjustable upper ball joints unless you go stupid low. I've dropped the front nearly as low as I can with un-modified Tein Superstreets and the camber is only 1.8 at each corner which is still quite acceptable. Contrary to popular belief camber doesn't have anywhere near the effect on tire wear that toe does.

You said you are against rebuilding the lower control arms, but are you against getting someone else to do it? A master rebuild kit from Energy Suspension is not expensive, and taking the arms and replacement bushings to somebody with a press is probably going to be cheaper (and better) than buying new arms from Honda.

Why did you decide on BC over Koni/GC or Tein? I'm a big Tein advocate but really for the money the Koni/GC kit is the best entry-level setup available. Unless the BC kit is stupidly cheaper (it's more expensive in my neck of the woods) I don't think it's worth it.
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Old 06-21-2016, 01:09 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
^^ Don't listen to this guy, if you want to spend money maintaining/upgrading your own car then go right ahead. IMO Prelude's still handle better and look nicer than many more modern cars out there at a fraction of the cost. I agree that having a sweet suspension means nothing if the rest of the car falls into disrepair though, so don't ignore obvious maintenance issues for the sake of upgrading.

Saying that, your list is pretty comprehensive and maybe a little over the top. Replace things that need replacing for sure, but don't go replacing just for the sake of it. See what is worn out/damaged/broken and assess it from there. Control arms don't wear out, only the bushes and ball joints. My 'lude is now over 22 years old and has over 130,000 miles on it and all of the ball joints are still like new. IMO you shouldn't need camber adjustable upper ball joints unless you go stupid low. I've dropped the front nearly as low as I can with un-modified Tein Superstreets and the camber is only 1.8 at each corner which is still quite acceptable. Contrary to popular belief camber doesn't have anywhere near the effect on tire wear that toe does.

You said you are against rebuilding the lower control arms, but are you against getting someone else to do it? A master rebuild kit from Energy Suspension is not expensive, and taking the arms and replacement bushings to somebody with a press is probably going to be cheaper (and better) than buying new arms from Honda.

Why did you decide on BC over Koni/GC or Tein? I'm a big Tein advocate but really for the money the Koni/GC kit is the best entry-level setup available. Unless the BC kit is stupidly cheaper (it's more expensive in my neck of the woods) I don't think it's worth it.


I say this, and still dump money into my prelude.
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Old 06-21-2016, 01:26 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

I would go with BC over koni/ spring combo and this is coming from someone who has had Koni/GC setup for over 5 years
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Old 06-21-2016, 02:45 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Seriously? BC used to be crap, like worst of the worst type crap.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:36 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azwethinkweiz View Post
I've had the mevotech adjustable upper balljoints on my car for quite awhile now and they haven't given me any issues so far (except they can hit the inside of the wheel well if you really bottom out the suspension). I've had bad luck buying aftermarket axles, this time around I went with some re manufactured OEM axles from raxles. They're more expensive then new cardone axles but cheaper then new OEM and higher quality then cardone IMO.

I've never seen lower control arms for the SH for sale by anyone except by Honda themselves. Its not so hard to do the lower control arm bushings on the SH IMO, you can do it with a hacksaw, hammer and a chisel if you don't have a press. Its harder to do balljoints methinks. If you do change the bushings and want a really solid feel then I'd recommend the poly bushings from energy suspension.
So...I went ahead and ordered all those underbody parts. I've tried doing the bushes myself before on my DC2 and it was horrible experience. Since this is my daily and I have limited time and window of garage space, I have to make the most of it. Hence buying direct replacement parts. Wouldn't brand new OEM bushes feel more solid than ES?
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:39 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by emathew View Post
Are you sure you want to put that much money into a 17 year old 250k mile car that is discontinued? especially if you are daily driving it?

I mean, if you got the time and money, then go for it. Get the LCA from Honda.
I'm driving my 2001 type-sh until it doesn't drive no longer, saving up for a newer vehicle. However, I wouldn't skip on anything crucial like engine, transmission, and drivetrain components. Those get priority.

Yeah pretty sure...as I mentioned I'm in no hurry for monthly repayments on a new car and don't see the point in another used car. But you're right, critical components should be OEM, I mean they did last all this long! The parts I ordered did have lifetime warranty so that at least tells me they are expected to last somewhat.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:41 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
^^ Don't listen to this guy, if you want to spend money maintaining/upgrading your own car then go right ahead. IMO Prelude's still handle better and look nicer than many more modern cars out there at a fraction of the cost. I agree that having a sweet suspension means nothing if the rest of the car falls into disrepair though, so don't ignore obvious maintenance issues for the sake of upgrading.

Saying that, your list is pretty comprehensive and maybe a little over the top. Replace things that need replacing for sure, but don't go replacing just for the sake of it. See what is worn out/damaged/broken and assess it from there. Control arms don't wear out, only the bushes and ball joints. My 'lude is now over 22 years old and has over 130,000 miles on it and all of the ball joints are still like new. IMO you shouldn't need camber adjustable upper ball joints unless you go stupid low. I've dropped the front nearly as low as I can with un-modified Tein Superstreets and the camber is only 1.8 at each corner which is still quite acceptable. Contrary to popular belief camber doesn't have anywhere near the effect on tire wear that toe does.

You said you are against rebuilding the lower control arms, but are you against getting someone else to do it? A master rebuild kit from Energy Suspension is not expensive, and taking the arms and replacement bushings to somebody with a press is probably going to be cheaper (and better) than buying new arms from Honda.

Why did you decide on BC over Koni/GC or Tein? I'm a big Tein advocate but really for the money the Koni/GC kit is the best entry-level setup available. Unless the BC kit is stupidly cheaper (it's more expensive in my neck of the woods) I don't think it's worth it.

I agree! Coming from owning Z32 TT, Z33, 180sx, R33 GTR, R33 GTS-T, Integra, Civic, GTi-R, V8 and Supercharged 6, there is very little out there that can fill the void. I mean the BRZ is a plastic t**d for 30K!!! I mean seriously??? Next money pit for me will be the last V8 S5 RS or M5 V10...till then I'm gonna enjoy this unique bodied car that's good on fuel, maintenance, insurance and looks.

I am keen on some wide wheels and tyres...something about wide tyres that looks super menacing. Not too sure about adjustability on camber. As mentioned above, due to my limited time and garage space window I gotta plan everything and get everything all 100% before knocking it all in one day. Hence I would imagine the bushings have gone bad over time, even though they may look normal, those things age and its the slow aging process that results in us not being able to tell what it was like when new.


R LCA would have to wait then...as you mentioned, I might have to buy the bushings and plan a weekend to take them to a shop to get pressed out. I was just in a hurry to get all done in one shot.

Playing around with shocks/springs and spring compressors has been horrible...especially with the tightly wound Honda front springs. Had enough. So now anything coilover that comes with top hats and is ready to install takes my money. Plus BC is the cheapest full bodied one piece kit out there with height/dampening adjustments. Next choice was Ksport but BC is more widely used. I love Tein and other proper brand items but the entry level comes with no top hats which is a deal breaker for me. Same with Koni/GC.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:42 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFlaKidd View Post
I would go with BC over koni/ spring combo and this is coming from someone who has had Koni/GC setup for over 5 years
Agreed! Prefer one piece kit rather than mix and match...especially for a DD.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:42 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
Seriously? BC used to be crap, like worst of the worst type crap.
I got quoted $800 by Jiffylube to replace just my factory shocks with standard shocks, lol, dropping $995 for BC is a steal compared to that :)
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:42 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

I say it is still worth to throw some money on a 5th gen, especially if the money doesn't matter.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:51 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Pics turned out to be too big...see below.

Last edited by Bobbit; 06-22-2016 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:55 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

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I say it is still worth to throw some money on a 5th gen, especially if the money doesn't matter.
hehehe...money always matters...but its rather how you justify it in your mind...I tried and won!
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:57 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

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Old 06-21-2016, 03:59 AM
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:59 AM
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:00 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

We all love a bit of visuals :)
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:03 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

BTW: is this Spring Rate on the BC BR too soft or OK for DD?

"Front Spring Rate: 10kg/mm Rear Spring Rate: 5kg/mm"
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Old 06-21-2016, 10:35 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Wow your prelude is so clean, great find!
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Old 06-22-2016, 12:04 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Wow it looks mint, even barely any bumper sag yet.
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Old 06-22-2016, 04:40 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

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Wow your prelude is so clean, great find!
Awesome, thank you
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Old 06-22-2016, 04:41 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

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Originally Posted by Azwethinkweiz View Post
Wow it looks mint, even barely any bumper sag yet.
Thanks mate! Apart from born out suspension, rest of car is pretty solid despite the high mileage
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Old 06-22-2016, 10:15 AM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

amazed the car is all original and at 250k
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Old 06-26-2016, 02:49 PM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

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amazed the car is all original and at 250k
hehehe, yeah me too! Previous owner was an elderly Doctor from what I was told.
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Old 06-26-2016, 02:49 PM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Alrighty....Got some Parts :)
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Old 06-26-2016, 02:50 PM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

BTW...any recommendations on Rear Sway Bar? or the stock one sufficient for DD and I can just change the bushes and end links?

Thinking of this...Yay or Nay?


Last edited by Bobbit; 06-26-2016 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 06-26-2016, 02:53 PM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Front and Rear Upper Control Arms


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Old 06-26-2016, 02:57 PM
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Re: First Post: Type SH Underbody Upgrade

Rear Control Arm and Ball Joint Assembly


Last edited by Bobbit; 06-26-2016 at 03:00 PM.
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