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1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

 
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Old 07-25-2015, 08:37 PM
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Icon5 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

according to my check engine light codes p170 p172 bank 1 and bank 2 are running too rich and my car idles very poorly and will even die at times!!! ive replaced the map sensor and the pcv valve fyi and i am still getting the same codes. what do you guys think may be causing the engine too run too rich? and i am hoping this is an easy fix

i do appreciate all help!!

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Old 07-25-2015, 10:25 PM
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Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

All Gen. Prelude Service Manuals
^^ check out chapter 11 of the 5th gen manual.
Now if you depend on the car to get you to your job etc, take it to an independent shop for a diagnosis. They'll be able to find the problem and will likely drop the diagnosis fee if you pay them to repair it.

If it's a thrill car and you have the time, then you can do some trial and error stuff like cleaning the throttle body, fitv, iacv and EGR system. Chances are they all need cleaning anyway.

Could be your cat or 02 sensors not fully functional, but not sending a code yet, or it could be a number of other things.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 07-26-2015, 08:06 PM
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Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

The cat wont cause it to be rich unless it is so plugged the engine can't breath, in wich case you will have other symptoms. Its not likely to be the O2 unless both took a dump at the same time, since it is failing both banks. P0170 and P0174 can be hard to diag over the internet. How does the car run? Does it misfire? If so fix that first. Whats your timing? I know its not adjustable, but it doesnt hurt to check. Take out your air filter and see if that helps. Whats your fuel pressure? You don't have one of those retarded aftermarket FPR's do you? If your pressure is too high it will be rich. Run the car a few minuets, turn it off, after about 2-3 minuets remove the vacuum line on the fpr, if you smell fuel replace the regulator. Is your cam timing correct? Do you have a J2534 scan tool, or did someone pull the codes for you?
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:13 PM
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Icon10 Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

i do drive it to work and today my engine ran slightly hesitant i could feel it become bogged down a little bit, but on the way back from work the engine ran completely normal no bogged down feeling and was even idling normally but the check engine light is still on. the symptoms will come and go randomly and dude you gotta explain to me what a FPR is because i am a noob lol.

how do i check the fuel pressure?
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:37 AM
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Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

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Originally Posted by tprelude0222 View Post
i do drive it to work and today my engine ran slightly hesitant i could feel it become bogged down a little bit, but on the way back from work the engine ran completely normal no bogged down feeling and was even idling normally but the check engine light is still on. the symptoms will come and go randomly and dude you gotta explain to me what a FPR is because i am a noob lol.

how do i check the fuel pressure?
Sorry, fpr is fuel pressure regulator. To test fuel pressure you will need a gauge set, you can barrow one from Oriely's auto parts. They typically hook up one of two ways:

Option 1: on the fuel filter you will see two lines. One line(in) uses flare type fitting with a 14mm hex flare nut. The other line uses a 17mm hex banjo bolt fitting(out). In the center of the 17mm banjo bolt you will see a 12mm hex bolt. Remove this small bolt and attach the fuel guage. Don't lose the small washer, this is a crush washer and acts as a gasket.

Option 2: on the fuel rail you will find a 17mm hex banjo bolt. Remove this bolt and hook the gauge here using a banjo adapter and an extended bolt found in the kit. Make sure to use crush washers between each piece to prevent leaks.


Your check engine light (cel) will remain on regardless of current runability. Once this light sets, because it is an emissions failure fault, it will remain on until cleared with an OBD2 J2534 scan tool (fancy way of saying scan tool for 1996+ North American vehicles). This issue would be best fixed if you had a scan tool, then I would be asking better questions like fuel trims, ect/iat readings, but lets see what we can do without.

Your engine is hesitant because its rich. There is so much fuel that it just can't burn. One quick thing you can try: unplug the engine coolant temperature sensor for the ECM/PCM, then using a small piece of wire, jump the two terminals in the harness connector together. This will tell the computer that your engine running at 240 something degrees, so it leans out the fuel trim, but be aware this may cause another code for this sensor.

I am tying to keep this as simple as I can, but since I do this everyday sometimes I forget not everyone knows this stuff from a heavy diagnostics stand point. Don't hesitate to ask for better explanation of any specific tests, or acronyms, or terms, or anything. There maybe some pretty indepth thing to come. It will not be held against you, and there are no stupid questions unless you keep asking the same one.



Edit for spelling

Last edited by luda8890; 07-28-2015 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:17 AM
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Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

I went to an independent shop and it costs 95$ just for them to diagnose the problem!!! so im not going to do that
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:44 AM
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Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

i checked the service manual and this is what i found

System Too Rich DTCP0172

Fuel pressure regulator clogged, stuck closed

Fuel return pipe clogged

Fuel injectors leaking

Gasoline dosent meet owner spec

Primary H02S (sensor 1) deteriorated

EGR system in sufficient flow

Evap purge control solenoid valve leaking, stuck opened

Valve clearance

what do you guys recommend i start with fixing? i figure changing out the H02S sensor and the fuel injectors
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:08 PM
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Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

Clean the EGR valve.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:34 PM
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Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tprelude0222 View Post
I went to an independent shop and it costs 95$ just for them to diagnose the problem!!! so im not going to do that
That's not too bad, my shop charges 115$ for the same service. When I worked for Honda it was more.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:51 PM
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Re: 1998 Honda Prelude running too rich!

I would like to guide you through this for free, but it will require some specialty tools that you may need to buy or rent. I also want to prevent you from just throwing parts at it.


You can get a tool off ebay called an ELM327 that works as a very basic scan tool with your phone. This tool although basic does meet minimum J2534 bi-directional control requirements, and is serial CAN capable if you wish to later use it on a 2010+ vehicle. You can get these as low as 15 bucks. Something like this would help greatly with your current problem. I want to know your short term fuel trim percentage, your long term fuel trim percentage, IAT, ECT, BARO value and freeze frame data at the point of failure. With these simple things I can likely point you very near the failed component.

Did you try jumping the ECT sensor like I suggested? Were you able to read fuel pressure? Did you check for a failed fuel pressure regulator as I instructed in my first post? We can only help if we are getting feed back on our suggestions. Has the timing belt ever been done? If its advanced it can be too rich.
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