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Cammed F20b

 
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:35 PM
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Cammed F20b

Is what the plan is.

My 2000 SH's tranny is getting worse as the days wear on. And since finding a tranny in good condition is a PITA, and I need an adapter plate to run a tranny worth my time, I decided it makes more sense to just pull the whole swap and go with something fresh. This is what I was thinking:

JDM F20b is the first thing. While it is in the car, I will be building the h22a head I have from my current motor with full skunk2 pro1 cams and skunk2 valvetrain. Port & polish the head, and ported intake manifold w/ IAB delete. 70mm TB.

Still undecided on my choice of header.

If money permits I will be going with a JDM LSD trans. If not an M2Y4 will suffice.

So my question is. what head gasket would be the best choice? The combustion chamber of the h22 head will be 2mm wider since the bore of the h22 is 87mm while the f20b is 85mm, right?

Feedback on advice for the build is welcomed as well.
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:57 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

Synchrotech has a fully rebuilt SH trans in stock: Honda Prelude SH 1997-2001 - Synchrotech Transmissions Inc

However, if I were you, I'd prefer to build an engine and trans and drop it in. I'm actually in the process of building an F20B with an H22A4 head for my track car, but I'm doing a turbo build. Check out my build thread if you want more details.

Since you asked, here are my opinions, remember they're worth what you paid for them.

H22A4 head over the F20B is a good choice, IMO, since the H22A4 has 1mm larger intake (IIRC) valves. I'm not a fan of Skunk2 products, but their cams do work well. I'd recommend Supertech or Ferrea valve train over the Skunk2 stuff, though.

Are you planning to do anything to the block other than swapping a head onto it? If not, I'd very carefully check piston-to-valve clearance with the H22A4 head. Since the valves in the F20B head are smaller, is possible that piston-to-valve clearance could get tight. I haven't seen any real tech around that, so it's best to check. I'd also invest in a good set of cam gears since you're changing cams.

On the head gasket, use the gasket from the H22A4 since the H22A4 head has recessed quench pads. I'd suggest going with the F20B gasket if the quench pads were flush with the head surface, but they are not, so better stick with the H22A4 head gasket (which is good, as it's more easily obtained).

With this setup the OEM ECU is not going to suffice, so you need to give some consideration to what you're going to do there.

Good luck, and ask if you have questions. There are a few knowledgeable people here that are more than happy to help.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:14 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

By the way, if you're interested, I'll have a Hondata S300 w/CPR (brand new, never used) and a NepTune ECU for sale soon. I have a ton of parts I need to make a FS ad for, but I just haven't had time. I also have a nice 4 puck sprung hub Competition Clutch clutch with chromoly CC ultralightweight flywheel. Both brand new!
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:18 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

Thanks for that. I'm already running a chipped p28 so all I need is a tune. and yes the bottom end is remaining stock. Thanks for suggesting to check valve to piston clearances. I knew that the F20b had higher compression pistons, but i didn't think that the 1mm larger valves would make that much of a difference...but I guess so considering I will be putting much larger cams on it.

Unfortunately I don't have Ferrea money, or i would get it in a heartbeat. And would you really recommend Supertech over Skunk2? I've heard supertech is the "cheap stuff" and the Skunk2 valve springs were designed to work best with the skunk2 cams. Would Brian Crower be a good alternative?
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:27 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

I don't have any experience with Brian Crower stuff, so I can't really say.

Many people I trust have told me that Supertech is a good substitute for Ferrea when you're on a budget. I don't know anyone running Skunk2's springs. Hopefully the springs are better than their specs. I seem to recall looking at the specs and thinking that something didn't look right.

I'd say if you're on a budget, put the F20B cams in the H22A4 head, and use that money toward a good header (I don't usually promote replicas, but the Hytech replica that Kronn sells is hard to beat).

My current NA engine is an H22A4 that put down 216WHP on stock cams, pistons, rods, crank, valves, etc. Main differences were a somewhat polished head (not ported), polished stock IM (with butterflies intact!), SMSP header, 3" exhaust, AEM CAI, RDX injectors, and EuroR crank pulley. The head was milled to get squish just about as close as I dared to run, and it was tuned on NepTune and 93 octane pump gas. So you can make decent power on stock cams, and the F20B cams are more aggressive than the H22A4 cams.

I'd save money on the cams and valvetrain, swap the F20B stuff into the H22A4 head, spend that money on a good header & exhaust, along with an intake (unless you have one already), mill the head to bump compression and get better squish, then tune. Save money and do cams and good valvetrain later.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:28 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

One other thing, if you run aftermarket cams, run an oil high in zinc content, or you'll be very very sad when you ruin your exhaust cam and rockers.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:28 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

Not to thread jack but 71dsp, how much you asking for that clutch and flywheel setup? Also does that come with a pressure plate and how much does the flywheel weight? I'm still gathering parts for my turbo f22a1 build, so if I can swing it I'd be a player.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:36 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

I'll PM you.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:17 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guicar View Post
Is what the plan is.

My 2000 SH's tranny is getting worse as the days wear on. And since finding a tranny in good condition is a PITA, and I need an adapter plate to run a tranny worth my time, I decided it makes more sense to just pull the whole swap and go with something fresh. This is what I was thinking:

JDM F20b is the first thing. While it is in the car, I will be building the h22a head I have from my current motor with full skunk2 pro1 cams and skunk2 valvetrain. Port & polish the head, and ported intake manifold w/ IAB delete. 70mm TB.

Still undecided on my choice of header.

If money permits I will be going with a JDM LSD trans. If not an M2Y4 will suffice.

So my question is. what head gasket would be the best choice? The combustion chamber of the h22 head will be 2mm wider since the bore of the h22 is 87mm while the f20b is 85mm, right?

Feedback on advice for the build is welcomed as well.
Bore the block out use a f20b gasket n block off ports that needs blocked offf
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:24 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

Bore out block to match heads, use the f20b gastket n block ports off that need blocked.
After bore best pistons to use r mahle gold
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:31 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

Why would you bore an F20B block out to 87mm to match the H22 head, but use the F20B head gasket? That makes zero sense.

I'm not even convinced that you can safely bore an F20B out to 87mm.

Why would you suggest Mahle pistons? I don't get that either.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:46 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71dsp View Post
Why would you bore an F20B block out to 87mm to match the H22 head, but use the F20B head gasket? That makes zero sense.

I'm not even convinced that you can safely bore an F20B out to 87mm.

Why would you suggest Mahle pistons? I don't get that either.
it makes sense in someones head.....who has no clue lol
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:13 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

^ +1 That's what I was thinking!
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:15 AM
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Re: Cammed F20b

there is a reason why the f20b has smaller valves .. its to increase intake velocty thats why the f20b head is better than the h22 head bigger doent allways mean better
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:03 AM
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Re: Cammed F20b

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there is a reason why the f20b has smaller valves .. its to increase intake velocty thats why the f20b head is better than the h22 head bigger doent allways mean better
do you have data for this?
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:36 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

the info on the f20b is shaky at best the reason that port and polish works is to increase the velocity of the air the the f20b was made with smaller valves for this purpose .. read that somewere 3 years ago when this engine was still a secreat .. mugen had honda make this so it could compeate with the bmws in the raceing circuit and it had to be under 2.0 thats from wikipeda
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Old 09-07-2015, 02:05 PM
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Re: Cammed F20b

f20b with type s cams?
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