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Some quick questions

 
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:30 AM
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Some quick questions

i bought a 5th gen prelude 5 spd with 155k miles on it and everything was fine im 16 im not really an expert on hondas/cars etc ..

1. a couple months after i bought the lude my cel and atts light came on at the same time, i put it on a scanner and it said it was swaying back and forth between my o2 sensor and cat ... (Does this mean my cat may be gutted , or a bad O2 sensor?)

After that , my prelude didnt pull as hard and its not as fast.

It surges when i cut the car on until it warms up ...

2. What is causing it?

Thanks...
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:57 PM
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Re: Some quick questions

Surges as in the idle bounces?


idle air control valve may need to be cleaned/replaced.
Have you checked your coolant level?
You could also have a vacuum leak.



Sounds like your secondary o2 sensor may need to be replaced. If your catalytic converter were bad you would smell it. It's always possible you could have a gutted converter, or even a test pipe - but i'm sure you would know by the sound of an abnormally loud stock car. Or the sight of a test pipe.
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:35 AM
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Re: Some quick questions

If it surges only on the warm up it is most likely the FITV (the thing bolted to the underside of the throttle body). Take it off and adjust the thermowax plunger ;)
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:35 AM
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Re: Some quick questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by wing8806 View Post
Surges as in the idle bounces?


idle air control valve may need to be cleaned/replaced.
Have you checked your coolant level?
You could also have a vacuum leak.



Sounds like your secondary o2 sensor may need to be replaced. If your catalytic converter were bad you would smell it. It's always possible you could have a gutted converter, or even a test pipe - but i'm sure you would know by the sound of an abnormally loud stock car. Or the sight of a test pipe.
My car does have a really strong like smell to it , the only thing I could relate to it is a type of gas or something. I notice that my car is really loud in second gear I may have a gutted cat ; but I have no clue.... I'm gonna order new oxygen sensors and clean my EGR valve and reset the cel and ATTS light then see what happens .. Ill post a video on YouTube on how loud my car is without an aftermarket exhaust system also so you can let me know..
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:37 AM
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Re: Some quick questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin View Post
If it surges only on the warm up it is most likely the FITV (the thing bolted to the underside of the throttle body). Take it off and adjust the thermowax plunger ;)
It surges if the car is under tempature (leaving it off for a few hours) and then it stops surging once the car is back at normal temp...
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:14 PM
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Re: Some quick questions

your oxygen sensor isn't the cause of the surging. on cold engine start-up doesn't matter what you drive....the ecu sees values that are programmed(open loop) once engine reaches operating temperature it goes to closed loop and starts using the o2 reading to make its fuel adjustments. check for vacuum leaks....clean throttle body and iac port and plunger. as far as o2 code....if your cat is gutted it will trip a light and vehicle will run open loop(hard on gas and most cases not as much power)....ATTS light always comes on with CEL light...that's normal)
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:44 PM
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Re: Some quick questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by 705ludeSH View Post
your oxygen sensor isn't the cause of the surging. on cold engine start-up doesn't matter what you drive....the ecu sees values that are programmed(open loop) once engine reaches operating temperature it goes to closed loop and starts using the o2 reading to make its fuel adjustments. check for vacuum leaks....clean throttle body and iac port and plunger. as far as o2 code....if your cat is gutted it will trip a light and vehicle will run open loop(hard on gas and most cases not as much power)....ATTS light always comes on with CEL light...that's normal)
The o2 sensor issue was brought up due to him having a CEL i regards to ...an o2 sensor...

The sensor can still be used on a gutted converter or test pipe. Thus needing to inspect further.


Of course it won't cause a surging idle.


Welcome to the forum.

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Old 10-16-2013, 10:23 AM
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Re: Some quick questions

The H22 engine has FRM (fiber reinforced metal) cylinder liners instead of cast iron liners (what is usually used in an aluminum block). Honda used FRM to prolong the engine blocks life. The downside to this is that the FRM is SO HARD it wears down the piston rings causing the engine to burn oil.
Most likely your cat needs to be replaced because of the oil contamination on the catalyst. Replacing the cat though is only a temp solution, because the oil burning will cause the new one to eventually fail too. I would do the sparkplug non-fouler mod to get rid of the code.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:10 PM
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Re: Some quick questions

The idle surge when cold...

The system runs higher rpm's until it's warm. Say about 1500. Then when warm drops to about 700. Surge is usually caused by two things. System gets readings saying cold/hot/cold/hot... or there's a vacuum leak. Various sensors like fitv and icv use water temp to speak to the ecu. Then ecu raises or lowers timing, air and fuel to create the proper rpm's.

But both usually cause idle bounce occur after the motor is warm as far as I know.

However an air bubble would heat quickly, causing 'hot' reading, thereby lowering idle speed then unwarmed coolant would read 'cold' thereby raising idle, then air bubble, then coolant...


I wonder if the lack of back pressure due to hollow cat convertor causes the ecu to think there is a vacuum leak, or confuse the ecu in other words.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:19 AM
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Re: Some quick questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by 705ludeSH View Post
your oxygen sensor isn't the cause of the surging. on cold engine start-up doesn't matter what you drive....the ecu sees values that are programmed(open loop) once engine reaches operating temperature it goes to closed loop and starts using the o2 reading to make its fuel adjustments. check for vacuum leaks....clean throttle body and iac port and plunger. as far as o2 code....if your cat is gutted it will trip a light and vehicle will run open loop(hard on gas and most cases not as much power)....ATTS light always comes on with CEL light...that's normal)
When i bought the car no lights were on for a couple months... I really just wanna get rid of the surging problem its pretty embarrasing when i start up (when i leave school) its loud and makes my car sound like a peice of ****..
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:38 AM
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Re: Some quick questions

My 99 SH with 153k miles just started having idle surges when I start up the car (cold weather). After some research, in addition to checking for vacuum leaks in your hoses, you should look at the fast idle thermal valve (FITV). This sucker is responsible for providing more air on cold starts so your engine idles higher. I'm gonna take a look at mine this weekend.

Here's a youtube vid on it: v=hB44oejFsL4
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:58 AM
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Re: Some quick questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by miaozer View Post
My 99 SH with 153k miles just started having idle surges when I start up the car (cold weather). After some research, in addition to checking for vacuum leaks in your hoses, you should look at the fast idle thermal valve (FITV). This sucker is responsible for providing more air on cold starts so your engine idles higher. I'm gonna take a look at mine this weekend.

Here's a youtube vid on it: v=hB44oejFsL4
Thanks , I'm fixing mine today
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:14 PM
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Re: Some quick questions

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Originally Posted by bb6ryan View Post
Thanks , I'm fixing mine today
these 2 links should help you out as well:
_http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2153910
(he's got great video's, explains everything for the average DIY'er)
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:27 PM
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Re: Some quick questions

Yeah, he produces some nice vids for your everyday non-mechanic.

So my car didn't surge during the idle today because I started it late afternoon when it was nice and warm out. Does anyone know if this confirms that it is the FITV that needs to be cleaned/adjusted?
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