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Help with H22A4 piston rings!

 
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:11 PM
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Help with H22A4 piston rings!

So right now I'm in the process of rebuilding my motor, and it's time to install the new Hastings standard size rings i purchased for the original pistons. But im super confused on which ring goes where. I've checked all over the internet, and the factory service manual. One ring is chrome and has both edges rounded off, and the other is black and has a beveled edge facing the inside. Neither ring has any markings. I just need to know which ring goes in the top groove, and which one goes in the second groove. Thanks!
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:15 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

New rings/pistons shoulda came with install directions.

At least in the 4th gen factory service manual, ring install is under Engine Block - Piston Rings, section 7-21. But only covers F20, F22, and H23 blocks.
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:08 AM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

I figured it out, thanks bro. My second ring was different than the one portrayed in the service manual. Now I have another problem, the block is giving me a lot of resistance when I try to turn it. Is that normal? I've never rebuilt an engine so I dont really know.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:30 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

What's all installed? Just crank and bearings? Or also rods, pistons, rings, wristpins, water/oil pump......
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:49 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Not to be a bother Ludesrule01 , but have you considered making a build thread on here so you can retrace the steps? would then have a reference for himself and a thread full of info and resources. Just saying.

And cranking over an engine off a stand is a PITA. You could do it your self but you'd need a rope and pulley to give you a third hand if you do not have a great engine hoist.
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:05 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

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Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
Not to be a bother Ludesrule01 , but have you considered making a build thread on here so you can retrace the steps? would then have a reference for himself and a thread full of info and resources. Just saying.


t'is a great eyed-deer

for instance;
:::twokexlv6coupe::: 2005 Subaru STi
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:28 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
What's all installed? Just crank and bearings? Or also rods, pistons, rings, wristpins, water/oil pump......
Sorry, should've been more specific. It is a full shortblock; rods, pistons, water/oil pump. Only rod bearings and piston rings were replaced. Crank was left untouched. Also I should add, the resistance isn't felt through the whole rotation. About a third of the rotation, it gets REALLY hard to turn. I have the engine on a stand and the flywheel bolted on so I can just grab it and turn the engine over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
Not to be a bother Ludesrule01 , but have you considered making a build thread on here so you can retrace the steps? would then have a reference for himself and a thread full of info and resources. Just saying.

And cranking over an engine off a stand is a PITA. You could do it your self but you'd need a rope and pulley to give you a third hand if you do not have a great engine hoist.
Thanks, I have actually considered it, it's just everything has been going so smooth until now, so I'm just like, "Dont take pics, I gotta keep working" Lol.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:10 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Have you properly sized all the bearings correctly to their related journal?
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:32 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

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Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
Have you properly sized all the bearings correctly to their related journal?
Im going to assume...no. I just got new bearings and stuck them in. Oh, but I should probably add that I got the whole thing figured out. I just put oil in each of the cylinders and it became easier to turn the engine via the flywheel. Still a little tight, but im guessing thats to be expected with new rings.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:09 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

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Originally Posted by LudesRule01 View Post
Im going to assume...no. I just got new bearings and stuck them in. Oh, but I should probably add that I got the whole thing figured out. I just put oil in each of the cylinders and it became easier to turn the engine via the flywheel. Still a little tight, but im guessing thats to be expected with new rings.





You better not assemble that engine w/o sizing the bearings correctly. You cannot simply slap bearings in and call it a day. If they're a coupla thou too tight, you'll spin them, and destroy the crank and/or block. If they're a coupla thou too loose, you'll lose oil pressure, and destroy everything in the block.

Check out my build to see what's involved with sizing bearings.
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:38 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

But if I'm using stock rods and crank, why would I need to do that? Im confused, this is the first time I've ever built an engine.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:43 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Cuz every single bearing isn't the same size, they'll vary by a coupla thousandths of an inch sometimes. Plus a used crank will wear down some, maybe only a coupla ten-thousandths of an inch, but you combine that with a loose bearing and you'll have no oil pressure.


Plus Honda themselves sell diff sized bearings, over and undersized, to get the exact clearance that you need. You could've gotten over/undersized bearings, and could destroy the block on first start-up.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:44 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

My bottom end never had any problems, I only tore the motor apart for head work and figured I may as well open up the block and replace rings/bearings too. But no, I know for a fact they're standard size cause at first I accidentally ordered .25 over, so I shipped them back and got the right size.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:14 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Not having any previous problems has nothing to do with it.

To put it into perspective, my build has a; BRAND new crank, BRAND new ACL HX bearings, and a BRAND NEW short block. Bearing clearance spec is; .0015 - .0018"

The first time I assembled the short block and checked bearing clearance, I got a variance of .0012 - .003. That means some bearings would've had two and a half times as much clearance as others.
After swapping some bearing halves, I was able to get it down to .0015 - .0027. A lil better, but in the end I had to buy 3 diff sets of bearings to get clearances in spec.


Are you not gonna check/adjust ring gap? Not check cylinders size? Not torque the head/main studs to spec? Not put the timing belt @ TDC??
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:24 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Nick, stop lol! You're discouraging me to do a engine rebuild!

You would think a master rebuilt kit with a blueprinted crank would not need a lookover, lulz
But youre right. GM always has had a master rebuild kit that came with 8 differently size pistons, and the mechanic just fit to match the cylinder.

What is that about?!
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:54 AM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Jeez I feel like my motor is just gonna explode on first start up. I had someone else check the ring gap, she said it was fine. And yes, I torqued the main caps and head studs to spec, unfortunately I've learned the hard way
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:12 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

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Jeez I feel like my motor is just gonna explode on first start up. I had someone else check the ring gap, she said it was fine. And yes, I torqued the main caps and head studs to spec, unfortunately I've learned the hard way


It LITERALLY will explode on first start-up if your bearing clearances aren't correct.
That is about the most crucial spec to adhere to when building a motor, since it determines everything; longevity of the motor/reliability, what oil to use, oil pressure/temperature, how much abuse the motor will take, etc....
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:05 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Well I got it to start up the other day and BOOM. Just kidding lol, it sounds pretty smooth. Im just having trouble getting the thermostat housing to seal with that pipe that comes from the water pump. Ill try to remember to post some pics
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:01 PM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

I was gonna rebuild a B21 this winter until reading this thread.
Geez Louise.

Maybe it's time find an engine builder
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:57 AM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

Lol I'm just a kid on a budget okay!
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:43 AM
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Re: Help with H22A4 piston rings!

For the leak, you might need a new O-ring. That's the same exact problem I had after rebuilding my head. Part number is 91314-PR7-A00.
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