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I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

 
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:16 PM
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I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

OK. I'm going 60mph in a 98(base) bone stock Prelude in 5th gear.

I shift into what I believed to be 4th for a quick burst of speed via downshifting.

It was second, usually if I tried that my worn synchros wouldn't allow it, a small grind would occur and put it right back into neutral. However the ease in which it slipped in seemed much like a single gear downshift. I didn't bother to look and began letting the clutch in (pedal out). The RPM's were to climb anyways so it was only after they climbed past 5000 that I even noticed, long story shorter, the RPM's went off the chart, about 9.5k in my opinion.

I never really let the pedal all the way out but when I put in neutral it sucked the pedal all the way in for about 7 seconds and then loosened back up to normal. The car ran rough for the next two miles (going home) and died in neutral, or in gear (without throttling). It smelled strongly of gasoline, when trying to start.

The only to get it to turn over is to hit the starter and give it about halfway or more throttle. I have searched for weeks on what to, do, expect, and why it happened.

Car is on stands and the timing covers, valve cover, crank pulley, balancer shaft are all removed and I have ordered the KaizenSpeed H22 timing tensioner, as well as all belts and seals. My stepdad is helping me and was convinced it skipped timing. From what I've gathered I have floated the valves and they couldn't get out of the way of my pistons fast enough.

Either way the timing job is getting done but I'm trying to keep what I've got without taking the car to a shop or swapping in a new motor. I have been out of the lude for 3 weeks too long and have nightmares about that shift.

There's a rebuilt cylinder head in San Antonio for 200, but it seems too good to be true.

Any thoughts, advice, opinions, and possible courses of action would be much appreciated. I won't be able to stop the comments about how terrible of a driver I "must be" to have something like this happen, but it's far from constructive. I used to be that guy reading through the threads saying "what a dipsh*t", but here I am now.

Fvck karma.

Suicide seems like the only option left

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Old 08-30-2013, 02:34 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

can someone tell me when this post comes out on DVD or VHS?
lol ok sounds like you bent a valve or something. did you do a compression test before taking it apart?
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:45 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

No compression test yet. I've already got the timing side all torn down, so I will be replacing everything in there, sealing it up again, then a leakdown to determine the messed up cylinders. Do you know what the specs are for compression in the cylinders?

My step-dad was an ASE Master Tech for quite some time, unfortunately he specialized in Dodge/Chrysler but he knows his way around an engine. He was convinced the timing was off considering how poorly it ran, and I assumed the tensioner had failed...surprisingly I don't think it did. So when he saw that the timing was hardly off he thought we were in good shape...I don't think that's the case though. I'm sure I bent valves, just wondering what to expect and look for, also whether it should be rebuilt or possibly where I can find one ready to go. I hope I didn't fvck the headgasket up as well.

This is my baby, and I should be reported to Child Protective Services after what I did to her.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:46 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Suicide is still quite tempting...

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:51 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Suicide? Why?

Get your $h!t togethuuuuuh!!!(sam jackson voice)

Seriously, just reassemble it all proper like, see if that worked. If not do the leak down test and be studying how to rebuild the head if need be.
We all do bonehead stuff here and there. Don't sweat it...
It's a car.
Rule 1: stuff breaks
Rule 2: you can't change rule 1.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:51 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Pull out the valves and seat them on a level surface. They should all be pointing perfectly up. If one is slightly off, there is your bent valve.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:46 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Very cool of y'all to help me out, I have the headgasket, intake manifold, and exhaust gaskets on order and will be slapping the timing side back together through the weekend.

At what point does it become more economic to buy a new head ready to go from Nippon motors or someone else? 8 valves should be $140-160 and I think working condition heads go for $200-300?

How many valves should I expect bent? What else might I be replacing? Rocker arms, valve seats, valve springs perhaps?

My checking account is shriveling up like a fish in the sun.
I will be doing more research and searching, anything else to do while I'm in there....I said that when I thought it was just my timing belt, but this seems like a part of the motor I REALLY never want to see again. It has been quite a learning experience though, I thought I understood motors before this tear down, but I didn't know sh*t.

Keep the advice and first hand knowledge coming, it ain't going to waste, I can assure y'all of that.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:26 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

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Originally Posted by Preluded View Post

My step-dad was an ASE Master Tech for quite some time, unfortunately he specialized in Dodge/Chrysler but he knows his way around an engine.
Turbo Encabulator!!!!

It's not that serious, really. A used head sells for 200-350 pending it's condition. Pistons (usually) survive the bent valves. Leakdown will confirm. You'll need to replace the head gasket anyway for a new(er) head. You should look at the valve galleys to see if they got warped. If not, good.

3 angle valve job and a port and polish sounds good right about now
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:27 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

When I did this it wasn't bent valves and I dropped mine into second like I was mad at it (at around 75mph accident, please help me control my road rage). The car would be running around 8000 rpm in 2nd at 60 which isn't too bad depending on your tire size which wouldn't effectively change what your speedometer was reading just actual speed. When I did mine it killed my valve springs. Car would idle fine after words but when I would get into 6kish my valves would begin to float. The springs had been over exerted and I replaced them with the Brian Crowers, its recommended to go with aftermarket cams also if you go with stiffer springs, for whatever reason I have read it causes accelerated rocker arm wear without bigger cams (doesn't make sense to me but ok). If you are really concerned about bent valves and the compression test doesnt look good do like 4gen said. Another way to see a bent valve is to stick it in a drill and spin it, the face should not show waver while being spun if it is still true. I bought a complete H22 head for $100 if you wait you can find deals but I am sure you need your car back.
Get your compression test done and let us know how it went. I didn't have bent valves when I went through this but may have just gotten lucky.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:31 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Where can I find a working order head, OEM preferably?

Or will it not be too bad to replaces the valves myself? What might be expected when I pull the head off?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:38 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Whoa, I convinced myself I was going 60...that's what I told my stepdad so he wouldn't think I race around, thus not want to help me fix it..that's crazy, I convinced myself.

Anyways I hit 10k damn near, in second gear so I'm sure I was closer to 70 or so, either way I messed my poor car up. Hopefully it won't be too bad, but working in 98 degree weather on the driveway's killin me.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:45 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Trying to find a used oem head can be hit or miss. If you can get one locally would be best, that way it won't kill you on shipping and you don't have to worry about the mating surface getting banged up on the way to you. I would probably just do valves, get some oem valve stem seals while you're in there. Also to remove the valve spring retainers you will need a special tool, there are a few different styles, the one I bought was like 60 bucks, it mounts to hinge points to the ends of the head with a single rod that runs the length of the head. Then a little arm slips under that rod and you can pry off of it to remove the retainers.. You having an ASE mechanic is a big plus, he will probably know which valve spring tool you need, the valves are so recessed into our heads that it is hard to get with the standard style compressors.
This is all hypothetically speaking of course. Try to get a compression test done before you disassemble your engine unnecessarily
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:01 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

I feel you on the heat. Living in the hot humid hell of Lexington, SC is tough on me. Yeah 10,000 puts you at 86 mph, I estimated mine somewhere in the mid 9ks or so. If compression test comes up short I wouldn't expect more than three or four valves to be bent, this is what I have encountered in cases of snapped timing belts. You may be able to find a few valves individually and replace them as needed to save money.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:03 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

I think this is the ordinate list.

1. Replace the auto-tensioner(I don't think it failed, the belt on there is in good shape and tight) with the KS Manual. Replace PS, ALT, balance shaft, and timing belts. Replace the camshaft seals, and timing covers back on.

2. Try to run it. I have doubts of it coming back to life, strangely it didn't throw a CEL, other than when all the lights came as it would die at 60mph in neutral.

3. I know my stepdad can do a comp. test but what numbers am I looking for? Hoping I didn't bang a piston up to bad. is low compression usually a sign of valve train damage or piston damage, I know these cars have weak piston rings as it is.

4. Identify the problem/s and shell out some fvckin money. It was 138 for the headgasket, intake, and exhaust gaskets
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:22 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

you hit 10k? lol power stops being made after 7200. you should just sell the car and get a civic
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:23 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Pm dbd6604 or wings 8806... they know the numbers...
140 would be good... 35, bad
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welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
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Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:55 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Uhh, I honestly don't like Civics............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............hence the Prelude

I saw numbers upwards of 200 on one site. I'll check my helms pdf.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:12 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

trying to go to 10k revs you would be better off with a b series.. just saying
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:14 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

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Uhh, I honestly don't like Civics............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............hence the Prelude

I saw numbers upwards of 200 on one site. I'll check my helms pdf.
He's just trolling.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:53 AM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

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Originally Posted by M0B5TA View Post
can someone tell me when this post comes out on DVD or VHS?
lol ok sounds like you bent a valve or something. did you do a compression test before taking it apart?
roflzzzzz dolan plz,

TLDR

dude went to fast in second blew a quarter sized hole in pistol an spun rod bearing...

op doesnt know that yet tho
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:27 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblue7t6
You may be able to find a few valves individually and replace them as needed to save money.
That's some sound advice and doing the compression test before you take anything apart will give an indication of which valves are bent, if any.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:12 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Well we took today off, so tomorrow I will be reassembling the pieces.

Its hard to get work done on labor day weekend. At least any sober work.

I was hoping I didn't do damage to any pistons or the lower block. We shall see.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:54 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

My Buddy did the same thing 5th to 2nd...he bent some valves, sad day.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:33 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

I'm finally getting a comp test today. Is there another way than Honda to get these valves and maintain OEM specs? Are valves even something people worry about with performance builds? I was hoping to get something cheaper than 30/intake 40/exhaust, especially if I likely hit all my exhaust valves.e
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:00 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Ok the test says I have below 50 in all cylinders... Do I replace bent valves assuming that's the only issue, do I take the head to be redone and hope the new higher compression doesn't wear my rings out or have oil consumption issues. My stepdad did not look impressed by the compression but believes the valve replacement will fix the issue.

I don't know what to do
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:30 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Is there any reason why replacing the valves and headgasket wouldn't fix what ive got?

It didn't knock, just no compession, and misfired the entire time, obviously suffering from leaky valves. $320 for 8 exhausts, and $240 for the intakes, and all the cylinders were affected so my only hope is its all intakes or less than all.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:31 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

dude. how many miles are on your engine.
u wanna quick yet simple, yet cheap fix you can do yourself with your dad.
pull the head, pull the oil pan. get your valves fixed. knock your pistons out from the bottom, install new rings and rod bearings, and re-assemble.
basically an in chassis rebuild. you'll have new rings, rod bearings and a fresh top end. its cheap enough and pretty easy to do in a drive way without the need for an engine stand and hoist.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:42 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Prelude1897 may have a used head fs. He'll do you right.
S&H will be a tall order unless you are in Texas. But in the end you'll be going again and you can rebuild the old one at your leisure.
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welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:45 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

First off 132k mileage.

Pulled the head off, bought valves and seals, replacing about $400 in miscellaneous hoses, seals and gaskets that we can get to with the head off. Unfortunately I have to have this car running for a brother's wedding by the Friday after next, plus he just doesn't want to do the lower end **** just because he's busy.

All I can do is send the head in to a local machine shop when the valves come in tomorrow, have them put that **** together, and pick it up after I get back from vacation. That leaves Mon - Thurs that week to get a head put back in, reattach all that bull****, and pray it works.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:27 PM
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Re: I think I'm F**cked. Wonderful...

Got the head back from the machine shop, had the valves and seals replaced. Took the chance to powdercoat my valve cover, and it looks pretty good. Everything will be put together asap by Friday for a wedding. Hopefully we get good compression.
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