Honda Prelude Forum
 
Go Back   Honda Prelude Forum > Tech-Talk > 5th Gen Honda Prelude

Thread Title
A look inside ATTS Units(re-posted from honda-tech)

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:52 AM
SlickLudeR's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 138
iTrader: (0)
SlickLudeR is on a distinguished road
Icon14 A look inside ATTS Units(re-posted from honda-tech)

i figured id post this here 2



Well, a while back i purchased and installed a Type-S motor in my 98 SH. Ever since the first test drive after i installed the engine i always had an ATTS light. After several troubleshooting experiences i decided i would swap out the ATTS unit that came with the Type-S motor and put in my old known good ATTS unit which i never had a problem with.

This past week i removed the engine to install a new clutch and rear main seal, so i took the opportunity and swaped ATTS units. I was happy to discover my ATTS light was now gone. This answered my question about needing the JDM ATTS ECU when running the Type-S motor. I always believed the JDM ECU was having conflics with the US ATTS ECU which would cause the ATTS light to come on, but after swapping ATTS units, the ECUs seem to have no problem with one another.



Well now that i have a bad ATTS unit sitting in my garage i was thinking of what to do with it. I was not going to sell it to anyone under its current condition, so i decided to do the next best thing... TAKE THAT BIATCH APART! For those who have never seen or know what the ATTS unit is or does, here it is below. The ATTS unit comes in all Type-SH Preludes, as well as the JDM Type-S engine (NOT THE EURO-R). It takes the place of the intermediate shaft and works as a torque transfer system which transfers torque to either the left or right wheel while under heavy cornering.





Here ive pointed out some of the main sensors/parts of the ATTS. The breather tube pointed at below travels up around the intake manifold, and it is curved into a "U" and left open. It sits right by the Fuel Pressure Regulator.



Here is the right side of the ATTS Unit. The extension tube you see is the section that goes inside the transmission.




And here is the left side of the ATTS, this is where the drivers side driveshaft connects. Notice the ATTS fluid fill bolt.



After removing the right side cover, i was amazed at what i saw next:



This is believed to be the heart of the ATTS unit and what allows it to be able to transfer torque to the needed wheel under heavy cornering. This sucker came out as a whole, and i was amazed to see that it consisted of 16 different gears!!! When you rotate the inner gear assembly the outter gears would rotate the opposite direction. It almost looks like a miniature LSD.







Notice the ball bearing assembly.



Here you can see the two gears that sit inside this gear case. The #1 and #3 gears sit inside the case with the washer (#2) in between them. Part #4 sits inside gear #3.



This is what it looks like with the extension tube attached:



After removing the "gear case" you can see the ATTS unit clutch assembly:





Over all there are 3 clutches in total, along with 4 friction plates.



Until this point this is the only sign of wear i have found.



All the clutch dics looked like they were still in good conditon, however. After removing all the clutch and friction discs and a snap ring, a large spring came flying out at me. Luckly it hit my arm and not my face.. This appeared to be used to keep or put pressure on the clutch discs.





This might be a pointless thread, but im finding it interesting to actually see and learn about all the parts the ATTS unit has. Im anxious to take it all apart so i can see how it all works. I will continue to take the rest of it apart tommorow and take a look and the oil pump inside the unit and hopefully find out why the ATTS unit was throwing codes. Stay tuned







by the way i was thinking if u can just upgrade the internals of the atts unit is there any way of not allowing the ecu to disable the atts system so its on no matter what ?



Well moving on tonight on the ATTS unit, i took a look and the left side cover and removed it. The black hoses you see here are the oil cooler hoses that run on top of the transmission and connect to the bottom of the radiator.



Here you can see the locations of the oil orifice and the oil filter for the ATTS unit. Notice how both contained a spring, the spring in the orifice more than likely controled oil pressure throught the ATTS unit.








After separating the left cover you can see the left clutch assembly and the oil pump.


__________________

1966 Pontiac Catalina
1997 Prelude sh
riko617 -ps3 online warhawk, CAll of duty 4
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:52 AM
SlickLudeR's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 138
iTrader: (0)
SlickLudeR is on a distinguished road
After removing a few set clips you can remove the left clutches.





Heres a look at the oil pump itself.



After removing all the internal gears, i put them all back together to show how it all comes together. I also put on the left and right clutches.







Whats interesting is the whole unit turns as one, but if you pull out the outer shafts alittle the unit unlocks and you can now rotate each side individualy. Also, the left and right shafts cometogether right inthe middle, and you can remove the planetary gear and you would have a stright shaft that runs throught the entire unit. This is where i can imagine you can create a way to install just the shafts, keeping both wheels to rotate as one. I will post a picture of the straight shaft by itself tommorow so you all can see what im talking about.
__________________

1966 Pontiac Catalina
1997 Prelude sh
riko617 -ps3 online warhawk, CAll of duty 4
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 08:19 AM
Prelude13's Avatar
Hi.
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: awd land :D
Posts: 6,583
iTrader: (2)
Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13 Prelude13
Wow, very interesting read! thank you for you posting this!
__________________
'14 Impreza
'04 TSX sold
'90 Si sold


Everyone! Resource guides are here:
5th gen.
4th gen.
3rd gen.
2nd gen.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 08:23 AM
ogsmakdade's Avatar
functioning on impatience

Photobucket
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: progression through unlearning
Posts: 13,929
iTrader: (6)
ogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to ogsmakdade
man I'm glad I bought a base.............lol

good post man.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
OGGS is a stuff a nerd in the locker type. He's only mellowed out 3 months ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wing8806 View Post
As it is, I wouldn't trust you washing my balls. And I typically let any trick hoe from OT do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
Reading this thread was like watching pulp fiction the first time...

Cool quote Utopia.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 10:36 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
Posts: 223
iTrader: (0)
jerseytypesh is on a distinguished road
Very interseting. Did you figure out why it was bad?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 12:36 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ames, IA
Posts: 42
iTrader: (0)
Bigbuls is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
man I'm glad I bought a base.............lol
Your attitude would change immensely the first time you rolled into the throttle hard on a corner exit..........

My SH's ATTS system is actually better about putting down power in higher speed corners (40+ mph) than either my fiancee's Neon R/T's Quaiffe or my NX's viscous LSD. It is NOT as good in really tight stuff though...........but there you have it.
__________________
My fleet of cars:

1999 Dodge Neon R/T 2.0L DOHC 5 speed (modded)
1997 Honda Prelude SH 2.2L DOHC VTEC 5 speed (stock)
1992 Nissan NX2000 2.0L DOHC 5 speed (modded)
1991 Pontiac Grand Prix SE 3.4L DOHC 5 speed (stock)

And oddly enough, the older they are, the faster they are.........when they aren't broke that is
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 01:51 PM
94ludeguy's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: atlanta,ga
Posts: 2,834
iTrader: (9)
94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute94ludeguy has a reputation beyond repute
awesome write up man, so did u ever find out what was wrong
__________________

94 si jdm h22 w/chipped p28
Georgia prelude club member #3
Georgia prelude club website
my ride<----check it out
MY 240 project~~ 300hp here i come
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 03:44 PM
smirf's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 102
iTrader: (0)
smirf is on a distinguished road
TRUST me ive had some lsd cars in the past and the atts is sweet i just picked mine up today FINALLY and dropped throught a windy road and MAN did it just glide through with ease
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 04:23 PM
Platinum Member
ROTM!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central Valley, Cali
Posts: 2,454
iTrader: (8)
2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute2.2Lude has a reputation beyond repute
great job man
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 04:36 PM
2KSH's Avatar
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: LI,NYPOC
Posts: 353
iTrader: (0)
2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute2KSH has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to 2KSH
great post man great info hope mine never goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wht kinda hours went into that??
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 05:42 PM
T.E.L.'s Avatar
Six Figs Club
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On My Pocket PC
Posts: 5,039
iTrader: (0)
T.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to T.E.L. Send a message via MSN to T.E.L.
I'm going to pm you my phone number. I have 2 atts units. The usdm SH and the JDM Type S which we all know is the same. But.... I've always wondered how it actually works ELECTRONICALLY. I'm really willing to get technical with this thing because honda are A$$holes about releasing any literature on the unit. I don't give a rats a$$ if they want to put it in newer model cars and don't want to give away there secret. I want to be able to mod the unit to handle more torque than the ~180ft/tq. There has to be a way to do this. I'm thinking about taking the brain apart and see what the mother board is like and try to find out what actually fails when you have a motor making excessive torque.

Great post. I have MAD RESPECT FOR YOU!
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007, 05:56 PM
T.E.L.'s Avatar
Six Figs Club
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On My Pocket PC
Posts: 5,039
iTrader: (0)
T.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to T.E.L. Send a message via MSN to T.E.L.
oh and I read on another forum that you don't think a regular LSD tranny won't bolt up to the long block I'm here to tell you your wrong.... let me know when your ready. Find a junk yard with a fifth gen lude with axels still in take. There is a metal or aluminumn bracket brace or whatever it's called. you'll need that piece of metal thingy. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. I have a type s long block with with a euro r tranny. That should say it all...
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2007, 12:06 AM
SlickLudeR's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 138
iTrader: (0)
SlickLudeR is on a distinguished road
sweet iam sry about the weird pm messege i didnt read this first so r u selling the atts units ? or are u trying to help me with the swaps ?
__________________

1966 Pontiac Catalina
1997 Prelude sh
riko617 -ps3 online warhawk, CAll of duty 4
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2007, 12:09 AM
T.E.L.'s Avatar
Six Figs Club
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On My Pocket PC
Posts: 5,039
iTrader: (0)
T.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond reputeT.E.L. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to T.E.L. Send a message via MSN to T.E.L.
Naw... If I was selling the units I'd sold them a long time ago. I'm itching to find out if the ecu can be modded to handle more torque on the atts unit. your sh to base tranny swap is easy. "halfshaft brace" the part is called something like that I think. can't f'in remember.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2007, 01:50 AM
SlickLudeR's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 138
iTrader: (0)
SlickLudeR is on a distinguished road
yeah ive been talking to guys on other sites and id have to figure out how the stock ecu works because honda wont release any info on it iam still waiting for a honda-tech guy who was going to send me the layout well i will see what i can do
__________________

1966 Pontiac Catalina
1997 Prelude sh
riko617 -ps3 online warhawk, CAll of duty 4
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2007, 11:30 AM
ogsmakdade's Avatar
functioning on impatience

Photobucket
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: progression through unlearning
Posts: 13,929
iTrader: (6)
ogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond reputeogsmakdade has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to ogsmakdade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbuls View Post
Your attitude would change immensely the first time you rolled into the throttle hard on a corner exit..........

My SH's ATTS system is actually better about putting down power in higher speed corners (40+ mph) than either my fiancee's Neon R/T's Quaiffe or my NX's viscous LSD. It is NOT as good in really tight stuff though...........but there you have it.
exactly, because you know me so well.
I'm sticking to my guns. glad I have the base.


I do however have a large amount of interest to see where this thread goes. It'd be great to finally have some concrete answers about this atts...
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideswipe SI View Post
OGGS is a stuff a nerd in the locker type. He's only mellowed out 3 months ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wing8806 View Post
As it is, I wouldn't trust you washing my balls. And I typically let any trick hoe from OT do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
Reading this thread was like watching pulp fiction the first time...

Cool quote Utopia.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2007, 09:59 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 231
iTrader: (0)
Brute is on a distinguished road
Hey guys the ATTS light is ALWAYS supposed to be on right? I've got an SH model...
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2007, 10:10 AM
Pooponurhead's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: King George, VA.
Posts: 1,745
iTrader: (6)
Pooponurhead is a glorious beacon of lightPooponurhead is a glorious beacon of lightPooponurhead is a glorious beacon of lightPooponurhead is a glorious beacon of lightPooponurhead is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to Pooponurhead
nope, only when theres a problem. Mine comes on when i start the car, goes off after a few seconds...and then comes back on after about a mile or so of driving. Lame

And i refuse to drop almost an entire paycheck on a new ATTS control unit and pgm communicator that Honda wants to install. Assholes.
__________________
'01 Satin Silver Prelude Type SH: SOLD and dearly missed :(
'97 Black Civic EX: Death by Bambi
'95 Milano Red B18C Civic: Death by Mexicans
'98 Arctic White Corvette Coupe: SOLD
'09 Black Cobalt SS/TC: GM Stage 1/Trifecta-tuned @ 21psi SOLD
'02 Electron Blue Corvette Z06: CNC Ported 243 Heads, VA Speed Custom Cam, LGM 1 3/4" LT's, Catless X, B&B Bullets, A&A Vortech V1 610whp/507wtq 11.17 @ 131mph

'98 Civic Hatch DX: Stock as Fu**, Project Daily

Last edited by Pooponurhead; 10-23-2007 at 10:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2012, 09:52 AM
bykfixer's Avatar
Supreme Member
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: could you repeat the question?
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: (4)
bykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A look inside ATTS Units(re-posted from honda-tech)

nice post sticluder. must've taken a while. you could be a doctor. you have lots of patience man.
i've seen diagrams that made me question the purchase of an sh. but your photos solidified that thought lol. actually the pix you posted make me think some day i may dis/reassemble mine..right after i do a film camera and an automatic wrist watch.
i've read that usually the issues are electronic in those babies.
i've also read the shortcomings are that there's little bit of a computer lag in super short cutback corners that can confuse the gearing swap. so for the most part are very good on racetracks but in some cases other cars can out corner them in a few situations.
overall atts is genious tech. but like any hobby involving fast automobiles, speed costs $!
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead

Last edited by bykfixer; 10-13-2012 at 09:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2012, 11:01 AM
01PreludeBlue's Avatar
Grand Member

 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,788
iTrader: (5)
01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute01PreludeBlue has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to 01PreludeBlue Send a message via Yahoo to 01PreludeBlue
Re: A look inside ATTS Units(re-posted from honda-tech)

Thanks for the post! Very interesting but Im glad I have a base I'd hate to troubleshoot ATTS when it craps out.
__________________
Follow me on IG: @built_by_Jm

2001 Honda Prelude Electron Blue Pearl
2000 Honda Prelude parts car (5 speed swap donor)
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:01 PM
bykfixer's Avatar
Supreme Member
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: could you repeat the question?
Posts: 11,122
iTrader: (4)
bykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond reputebykfixer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A look inside ATTS Units(re-posted from honda-tech)

10 seconds with search engine resulted in the find of this '07 thread.
i did an re to make a point...pretty much whatever question you have these gremmies have covered it..
well that one where dude's clutch is messed , his car won't turn off and his radio quit at the exact same time may be original..but if i were a betting man i'd say somebody somewhere has a similar set of circumstances on a pz thread
like ogsmakdade said SEARCH G-D it!!!
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:56 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


Copyright © 2006-2009 PreludeZone.com All Rights Reserved.