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Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

 
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:33 AM
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Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

So I've been working on a timing belt/water pump/crank seal as well as stage 1 cams on my 01 base. After taking the cams and old belts off I realized I forgot to set my engine to TDC What on earth do I do now?? How can I get the cams back in sync with the crank?
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:01 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

You haven't rotated the crank away from TDC, correct?!?!!?!

If you haven't, good.
Than you install the cams as CLOSE to TDC as you can. You're prolly not gonna be able to get both of them exactly @ TDC cuz they're both gonna wanna rotate one way or another due to the spring/retainer pressure pushing against the lobes.
Once the cams and cam gears are installed close to TDC, and all the cam caps are torque down correctly, you need to line the marks on the gears up and get them to TDC (you're prolly gonna need a helper for this, where they have a wrench on each cam gear bolt to hold them @ TDC), while you slip the timing belt on.

Than once everything is @ TDC.... check your valve clearances.
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:22 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

I dont think i ever put it at TDC. Cant I just set the crank at TDC then put in the cams/cams/plates then turn the cams to tdc?
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:00 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Better start hoping its not 360* off haha
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:15 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Ugh this is really stressful. So how can i go about fixing this?
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:56 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Put the crank and cams @ TDC, and if it doesn't start..... you'll know why
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:04 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Ok I think I figured this all out! Correct me if I'm wrong, but take the #1 spark plug out, stick a screwdriver in the hole, and hand crank the engine until the screwdriver is at its highest point, as well as lining up the TDC mark on the crank pulley at the same time. Then after thats done, slap in the cams/ gears, rotate them to TDC, then im set! Right?
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:49 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

you must turn in your tools at sunset for one month.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:14 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

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Originally Posted by LudesRule01 View Post
Ok I think I figured this all out! Correct me if I'm wrong, but take the #1 spark plug out, stick a screwdriver in the hole, and hand crank the engine until the screwdriver is at its highest point, as well as lining up the TDC mark on the crank pulley at the same time. Then after thats done, slap in the cams/ gears, rotate them to TDC, then im set! Right?


Yes, that's how to get piston #1 @ TDC.




My only worry is, and I'm not 100% on this.... hell I only have a 50/50 feeling on this, so bear with me. This is what I'm THINKING the crank could possibly be 360* off.

Piston #1 is @ TDC TWICE in one entire cycle; first time is right before the intake stroke, and the other is right before the combustion stroke, meaning the crank goes thru 720* of rotation every cycle.
The spark plug only fires once during those 2 TDC positions (the combustion stroke, obviously), and the spark plug gets some of its signals to fire from the TDC and CKP (crank) sensors.

If those 2 sensors are putting out signals every 360*...... I'm thinking its not gonna start cuz its gonna be firing the plug before the intake stroke.







But the GOOD NEWS is, if the crank is indeed 360* off, there won't be any mechanical damage (P2V contact), cuz all 4 valves are fully closed at both TDC positions.
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:07 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

i hate the whole 360* off thing.... made me have to drop the engine in my motorcycle....several times lol
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:26 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
Yes, that's how to get piston #1 @ TDC.




My only worry is, and I'm not 100% on this.... hell I only have a 50/50 feeling on this, so bear with me. This is what I'm THINKING the crank could possibly be 360* off.

Piston #1 is @ TDC TWICE in one entire cycle; first time is right before the intake stroke, and the other is right before the combustion stroke, meaning the crank goes thru 720* of rotation every cycle.
The spark plug only fires once during those 2 TDC positions (the combustion stroke, obviously), and the spark plug gets some of its signals to fire from the TDC and CKP (crank) sensors.

If those 2 sensors are putting out signals every 360*...... I'm thinking its not gonna start cuz its gonna be firing the plug before the intake stroke.


But the GOOD NEWS is, if the crank is indeed 360* off, there won't be any mechanical damage (P2V contact), cuz all 4 valves are fully closed at both TDC positions.
This is correct ^^
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:48 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Ok so even if the piston is all the way at the top and the TDC marks in the crank pulley line up, theres only a 50/50 chance itll be right?
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:07 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Correct. It's ok though you can get it back to TDC. Check to see if the #1 piston is at the top of its stroke and the exhaust valve just closed, if the intake valve is just opening, then you are 180 degrees out of phase. So just rotate the crankshaft another full revolution. If the #1 piston is at the top of its stroke and the exhaust and intake valves have not closed/opened, then you're at TDC!

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Old 11-28-2012, 02:22 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Well poo. Is there a way to differentiate between the two?
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:23 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

If the crank is at TDC, and the Cams are at TDC, there's no such thing as 360 off, since there's only 360 of rotation to begin with. You can be 180 out and not hurt anything, but being 360 out means the crank, cams, crank sensor, and cam sensor will all be aligned. Not sure what you're trying to pull there :P. Based on what I've learned and hands-on dealt with, 360 is in time as usual, unless you can explain to me otherwise.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:19 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

^if you read his explanation further up he talks about how although 360 is a full circle or rotation, a full cycle of the engine is actually 720
edit: if that makes any sense to you haha my brain hurts from thinking about it too much, but I see what he is saying kind of
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:20 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

can you pull the valve cover to see which valve is where?
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:18 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

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Originally Posted by tracerx13 View Post
Correct. It's ok though you can get it back to TDC. Check to see if the #1 piston is at the top of its stroke and the exhaust valve just closed, if the intake valve is just opening, then you are 180 degrees out of phase. So just rotate the crankshaft another full revolution. If the #1 piston is at the top of its stroke and the exhaust and intake valves have not closed/opened, then you're at TDC!


Good call. Yup, take the VC off to see which intake/exhaust cams are just opening/closing will help tell ya which stroke you're about to begin/finished.


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Originally Posted by crash_1340 View Post
If the crank is at TDC, and the Cams are at TDC, there's no such thing as 360 off, since there's only 360 of rotation to begin with. You can be 180 out and not hurt anything, but being 360 out means the crank, cams, crank sensor, and cam sensor will all be aligned. Not sure what you're trying to pull there :P. Based on what I've learned and hands-on dealt with, 360 is in time as usual, unless you can explain to me otherwise.

Intake stroke = 180*
Compression stroke = 180*
Combustion stroke = 180*
Exhaust stroke = 180*

180 x 4 = 720, not 360

You're thinking of a 2 stroke, son
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:02 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Thanks Blake
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:42 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Wait so if the crank is at TDC and both cams are starting/finishing the right strokes, I'm good? Thats it?? This is really confusing to me since ive been thinking about it so much.

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Old 11-28-2012, 03:41 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
Good call. Yup, take the VC off to see which intake/exhaust cams are just opening/closing will help tell ya which stroke you're about to begin/finished.





Intake stroke = 180*
Compression stroke = 180*
Combustion stroke = 180*
Exhaust stroke = 180*

180 x 4 = 720, not 360

You're thinking of a 2 stroke, son
I forgot the cams and crank rotate at different rates. So long as the cams are lined up right and the crank is too, then you'll be golden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98vtec View Post
The lower half doesn't know 2/4 stroke. Line up crank gear mark with oil pump then put the cams at tdc. Rotate engine by hand after a couple times fully. As long as the crank gear and can gears line up, your good.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:59 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

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Originally Posted by LudesRule01 View Post
Wait so if the crank is at TDC and both cams are starting/finishing the right strokes, I'm good? Thats it?? This is really confusing to me since ive been thinking about it so much.


Put cams and crank @ TDC, put belt on, than have a beer.
Your gonna deserve a coupla beers actually, after keeping the cams @ TDC while simultaneously tryna slip the belt on.
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:40 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

New belt on! Thanks to all who helped out!! And im only 17 so I think ill just have a coke lol.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:50 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Good to hear. Steal a brew from your old man, you deserve it after a t-belt job!

Let us know how she sounds on first start up.
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:51 PM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Will do. Ill try to post a video.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:18 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Congrats! Good job, I remember my first Timing belt
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:03 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Ok so I got everything back together, turned the key, and it just cranks!! wtf??
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:52 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

What aren't you getting- fuel or spark?

Did you double and triple check all your work, from beginning to end?

Did you do anything else at the same time, other than an entire timing belt job? Like delete PS/relocate batt etc?....
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:27 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

I wanna say im not getting spark cause i think i can smell fuel. And I also did stage 1 cams at the same time

Last edited by LudesRule01; 11-29-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:39 AM
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Re: Forgot to set my engine to TDC!!

Make sure you hooked up any sensor/ground/cannon plug you may have disconnected during disassembly. Those grounds are real pricks.
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