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Clutch Install Gone Wrong

 
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:29 PM
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Clutch Install Gone Wrong

Hey guys, it's been awhile ha. Most of you prolly don't know me, but I used to be a regular poster here like, a year or two ago.

Oh, and the thread title is a bit misleading. I'm not saying that the clutch install is what caused this, just that it started happening after the clutch was installed. I know, I know, 2+2=4 and all, but I don't think the install caused the issue.




Anyway, lets get to the point shall we?

My mechanic buddy and I replaced my clutch last weekend with an Exedy OE clutch kit and a F1 racing lightweight chromoly flywheel. By the time I replaced it the clutch was slipping so bad that I guarantee another week driving like that and the car wouldn't have been able to move. When we pulled out the old clutch, all the rivets were almost completely ground to nothing.

The new clutch works fine. Shifts beautifully, no problems there. I thought all was well and good, but then I noticed a problem.



When I'm cruising along, with my foot on the gas pedal just enough to maintain speed, the car just drops out on me. It starts slowing down on its own, and my foot hasn't moved on the gas pedal. So I'm still giving it gas (a tiny bit anyway) and the car is slowing down on its own. If I let up on the gas, it seems to act normally again, but then I reapply the same amount of gas and it happens again. It usually happens two or three times in a row before it stops

If I don't let up on the gas while it is doing its slowing down thing, it slows down for a few seconds then the car will jerk and go back to normal, at least for a bit.

If I give it more gas it stops it from doing it. It doesn't happen when I'm accelerating either, just when I'm cruising. Most noticeable in 5th gear but I've noticed it in lower gears, it just isn't as noticeable. Either that or because I typically don't cruise in lower gears. It also happens completely randomly. It'll happen on the highway when I'm going to work, then during the rest of the hour long drive it won't. I don't get it.




It didn't do this before I replaced the clutch, but I had an experienced mechanic who has done prelude clutches do the install. I was watching the whole time and the install went perfect. Also, I should mention the car was sitting for a week or two before I did the install, now the FITV needs to be adjusted, but I don't think that would affect this. But it's possible the TPS might need to be cleaned or.....something. I doubt it though.

I have already tried bleeding the clutch (we had already bled it after the install, I bled it again) and adjusting the clutch pedal. Both had no effect.



The only thing I can really think of that might affect this is that the master cylinder is leaking a bit around the pushrod seal, in the interior of the car. Normally this would be my guess, but that's been leaking for the last two years and it has never done this before we replaced the clutch.








Anyone have any input? I just ask that you don't just take a guess at it. If you haven't heard of this before, haven't had an experience with it, or can't at least make a good educated guess based off of experience or knowledge, then don't reply.

And if you didn't even bother to read and give serious thought to the entire post, then don't reply. Sorry, but I don't have time for shot in the dark guesses.

Other than that, all input is greatly appreciated.
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:54 PM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

When replacing a clutch, you should always replace the slave cylinder and master clutch cylinder - as well as throwout bearing.


I would almost say it sounds like the flywheel is not fully releasing from the clutch or there is a bad ground causing a power loss.... but just not 100% sure
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:26 PM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

The throwout bearing was replaced of course.

I didn't replace the slave cylinder because it isn't leaking. The master cylinder I probably should replace, but seeing as how I'm likely going to get rid of the lude next year, I'm trying to put as little money into it as possible. The master has been leaking ever so slightly for 2 years now and hasn't really caused an issue, especially not this one, which is why I haven't replaced it yet and why I also think it isn't causing this problem. I will admit it is possible that it is, but why didn't it cause this same issue before I replaced the clutch, if that's the case?

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I would almost say it sounds like the flywheel is not fully releasing from the clutch
I'm sure what you meant to say is "almost sounds like the pressure plate is not fully releasing from the clutch, and in turn, the flywheel."

But that wouldn't make much sense either. During cruising and while in gear the clutch is engaged against the flywheel. If anything it sounds like it isn't staying fully engaged, like it is supposed to be.

An electrical ground also seems very unlikely.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:39 PM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

Yeah, that's what I meant - sorry i typed it in a rush lol


I've heard issues with throwout bearings that are not OEM - although Exedy makes OEM clutches, i'm not sure if the throwout bearings are the same


how many miles are on the car?
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:52 AM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

your clutch is slipping. i had the same problem when i had my uncle who owns a car detailing place do an engine flush. i forgot that my flywheel/timing inspection cover was missing, and water got inside and im guessing soaked the clutch. i did some other work on the car so it sat for a little over a week and it drove perfectly after that. you might still be breaking in the clutch. do you know how many miles youve driven since the install?
and also, your master could be the cause for it and you just never noticed because the old clutch was slipping. i had a similar thing happen with my brakes. my master was leaking between seals and when i replaced it, i discovered that my booster was then constantly applying the brakes on its own. no one i talked to believed it was the booster but when i replaced it, everything was fine. IMO just replace the master. its like $60 on ebay if i remember correct.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:55 AM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

Hmm, that's an interesting one havik....I don't think the leaking fluid is the problem...that would lead to a different chain of problems due to the loss of hydraulic fluid. That would lead to poor pedal feel and shifter fork movement. Test for slippage like 671 said, it is possible. Wing, where did you get the info that you should always replace a clutch master and slave cylinder when replacing a clutch? I have never heard that before. Havik I would call the mechanic and ask him....I will also ask some guys at work tomorrow for ya.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:20 AM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

I know my neighbor replaced the clutch a week before he sold me my lude and the tech said to replace the master and slave along with it to prevent any further problems.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:23 AM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

That recommendation is nothing more than a recommendation because under normal driving conditions, clutches take forever to wear down so much that you need to replace them. So by that time there's a good chance the seals in your master and slave will be weak so when you replace the pressure plate, the tension being exerted back towards the cylinders blows them.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:25 AM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

I can almost guarantee that your problem has nothing to do with the clutch or any component. Sounds to me like you may be having a problem with a sensor like the MAP or TPS, or possibly something as simple as a dirty fuel filter.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:56 AM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

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Originally Posted by 671 View Post
That recommendation is nothing more than a recommendation because under normal driving conditions, clutches take forever to wear down so much that you need to replace them. So by that time there's a good chance the seals in your master and slave will be weak so when you replace the pressure plate, the tension being exerted back towards the cylinders blows them.
Good theory, but realistically how often does that happen? They are not considered wear items. It's like saying to replace the brake master after doing a brake job.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:34 PM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

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Good theory, but realistically how often does that happen? They are not considered wear items. It's like saying to replace the brake master after doing a became job.
Lol you got a typo at the end there. And I know they're not supposed to wear. Mine still feels exactly the same as it did when I bought the car, but some stealerships have some pretty clever service writers. If they only get paid commission they'll spin any kind of bull to add jobs to a work order. Plus of course if the person doesn't know how to drive stick properly then it will definitely wear out. Once test drove a 2004 civic with a clutch that felt 10 years ahead of my 02 civic. Loose shifter too.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:40 PM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

Alright, let me sort this out a bit.

First off, it is pretty standard to replace the SLAVE cylinder when doing a clutch install, only because you have to take it off anyway. We chose not to because mine isn't leaking and I'm a cheap ass. The master cylinder is typically not replaced unless you want it done. Mine is leaking ever so slightly, but its been like that for 2 years with no issues (clutch wasn't always slipping), pedal feels fine, the shifter slides into gear like butter, no grinding no nothing.

phantom had a good idea with the map/tps, I've thought about that too. I suppose it is possible. A dirty fuel filter seems unlikely though, I replaced mine about two years ago and have prolly put less than 20k miles on it since then.

Sideswipe SI mentioned a loose throttle cable as a possible culprit, which to me seems fairly logical.
...And we have ourselves a winner!



I should also mention this: Right after a shift, especially the lower gears like 1st and 2nd, if I'm on the gas a decent amount (not WOT, maybe halfway or so) it will hesitate for a second right after the shift before the acceleration picks up like normal. It did this before I changed the clutch as well.


All in all it doesn't sound like it's a clutch related issue, which is why I said in my original post that I did not believe it was. Only that it started happening after I changed the clutch. That doesn't necessarily mean the clutch change caused it, but could have made a hidden issue become apparent or it could just be coincidence. I dunno.



The problem is fixed.
Loose throttle cable. Now I gotta do the lower ball joints and give this puppy an alignment and she'll be good as new. Well, except for the piston rings, they're shot to ****. But good otherwise.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:14 PM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

My 'lude does like to hesitate a little bit if I shift around 3-4k and get a good bit into the throttle after letting out on the clutch. Never really bothered me all that much, and considering she's at 225k miles, I expect as much out of a tired old H22. I would imagine the problem/symptoms were always there, but with a stock flywheel, the engine is less prone to such symptoms. When you remove some of that rotating mass, small changes in power make a much bigger difference in how smoothly it operates.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:03 PM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

True dat, although we found out when we ripped it apart that the car already had a stage 2 clutch and lightweight flywheel in it. This new flywheel is slightly lighter, but only by like a pound.


Quick update: Tightening the throttle cable has almost completely restored normal operation, although it occasionally still drops out when cruising. But I can feel that it is the same throttle cable issue. Probably just got a bit gummed up or started to seize a bit with all that slack in there. I'm gonna try to lube it up with some of the throttle cable lube I used on my bike, see if that helps.

Also, right before I changed the clutch I started to get the infamous idle surge on cold mornings that Preludes are so adorably prone to. Now it happens all the time, even after it's warmed up. Which is a bit odd. After I lube up the throttle I'll adjust the FITV and clean out the IACV screen again and see where I'm at.


By the way, thanks for all your input guys.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:03 PM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

True dat, although we found out when we ripped it apart that the car already had a stage 2 clutch and lightweight flywheel in it. This new flywheel is slightly lighter, but only by like a pound.


Quick update: Tightening the throttle cable has almost completely restored normal operation, although it occasionally still drops out when cruising. But I can feel that it is the same throttle cable issue. Probably just got a bit gummed up or started to seize a bit with all that slack in there. I'm gonna try to lube it up with some of the throttle cable lube I used on my bike, see if that helps.

Also, right before I changed the clutch I started to get the infamous idle surge on cold mornings that Preludes are so adorably prone to. Now it happens all the time, even after it's warmed up. Which is a bit odd. After I lube up the throttle I'll adjust the FITV and clean out the IACV screen again and see where I'm at.


By the way, thanks for all your input guys.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:00 AM
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Re: Clutch Install Gone Wrong

Make sure the coolant hose running to the FITV isn't cracked. My H swapped Accord had that happen.
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