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Old 02-11-2012, 03:28 AM
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SH vs Type S

So I wanted to throw this out there since a lot of the post's I've been reading on this subject are a little old. Correct any interpretation I have gathered over the past week, please. I am not going to Drag this car or even really street race it...I just want to put drivers in check when they try to race me down the high way every now and then...just trying to keep my prelude up with the Jones and make it even more fun to drive...but still reliable.

Since I have an SH, engine mods are quite limited. Some say as long as I don't go over a certain wheel horse power (250) the ATTS will be fine, others say it will screw up with any engine mods or change in HP. As far as I am concerned this is still undecided. But I read a lot about guys that have SH models and still have aftermarket headers and high flow exhausts, some even with Skunk 2 intakes ...? are these guys just wannabees?

From reading posts with guys who don't sound like they are talking out of their ass N/A mods are out the window for the SH because tuning is out the window with the ATTS (unless I do a piggy back system, or run VFAC) both i read are limited...

The next option is to Turbo, but again the ATTS is in the way, and the HP gain pretty much turns your handling into a Base with dead weight. Not to mention the motor mods that are required to run a turbo.

So...would it be worth it for me to buy a Base set up and build the engine for Turbo even if I am never going to drag it? Most people end up spending 10 grand on their motor for max hp. I don't want a drag set up, I want it to be like the reliable turbos you are starting to see in every car. daily driving aspect. But if I do that can I get a daily driver out of it with out it always throwing codes? I want it to run smooth. I want to run like 7 psi so I can drive it everyday and have that extra kick when I want it? What is the MPG when you add a turbo at that PSI?

ORRRRRR

Should I just buy a JDM type S motor to throw in my SH? From what I have read the swap is "pretty easy" with small modifications necessary. But most people have positive feed back and say that they HP difference in daily driving is noticeable and it is a stronger engine.

OR

can I just turbo my SH and leave the ATTS as dead weight? Without removing the ATTS system. Maybe even remove the ATTS if I have to? I understand that's not as easy as it is to type it...but my engine only has 66k on it and its a 97 so the motor is still strong.

Either way if I dive into any of these projects, I am keeping this SOB for as long as I can.

Inputs please...from reliable sources. Also, anyone recommend books on this tuning ish...I am a newb in this world. Luckily I understand concepts well.
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:43 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by DueceNikels55 View Post
Since I have an SH, engine mods are quite limited. Some say as long as I don't go over a certain wheel horse power (250) the ATTS will be fine, others say it will screw up with any engine mods or change in HP.
we said that you can do mods but HOW ARE YOU GOING TO HANDLE THE ENGINE MANAGEMENT since you dont have any good options there?!

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Originally Posted by DueceNikels55 View Post
So...would it be worth it for me to buy a Base set up and build the engine for Turbo even if I am never going to drag it? Most people end up spending 10 grand on their motor for max hp. I don't want a drag set up, I want it to be like the reliable turbos you are starting to see in every car. daily driving aspect.
still you need that 10 grand
reliable and cheap doesnt meet anywhere ANYTIME

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Originally Posted by DueceNikels55 View Post
Should I just buy a JDM type S motor to throw in my SH?
where you can find one? I imagined theyre pretty rare

but after all, its the best and cheapest way you to just get that base. sell your car. and get base. IF you want to do something your engine. you might even get some extra cash for your future build in this way. everything else just....costs

Last edited by TypeT; 02-11-2012 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:10 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

Type S motors are for sale all over the internet...at least they look to me like the type s. Some sites give the engine specs (like compression ratio) but some say type s with LSD transmission, from my understanding the LSD only came in Aussie versions and are Sir's not type s. so I would call the company to make sure
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:21 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

^ Type S have ATTS, SiR Spec have LSD

but anyway theres no point of getting ANY S-engine if your plans are building it.

Last edited by TypeT; 02-11-2012 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:47 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

Everything you stated in your first post is pretty much right on. The purpose of the SH was increased handling characteristics by the ATTS and more advanced front suspension components.
I swapped a Type S when I blew the A4 and there is definately a noticable difference in power.
You are limited with mods on an SH motor. I/H/E is just about all you can do without removing/losing ATTS because there is no way to utilize the benefits of other mods. In other words; there is no PROPER way to tune a SH and retain the purpose of it (ATTS). Most people will never make 250+ whp with a Prelude anyway, it takes a lot of time, money and dedication.

I have a lot of respect for the people that do because after reading/learning about what's involved, it's not easy.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:14 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by james6183 View Post

I have a lot of respect for the people that do because after reading/learning about what's involved, it's not easy.
^amen
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:42 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

That's the thing, I don't even know if I want 250 HP. At this point the only reason I would build a turbo set up is for my own knowledge and to say I did it. Do a lot people have success making turbo set ups that are good for reliability and everyday?

Also... How hard was your Type S swap? How did the car run? Would you do it again?
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:27 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by hall756 View Post
^amen
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:34 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

answer this: how much money you have now and how much are you willing to put into your car?
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:03 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

Well if I spend 5grand on it, that would only be 11 on the whole thing...but I have more money than that. Like I said I'm not making a drag car so I'm not going to spend endless amounts of money to keep adding more HP every 2 months. over the course of the next year or so I won't put over 7 grand into it total. But a fun/reliable fast car for under 15 grand is worth it for me. I would love to make this thing up to date in every way. Halo headlights, dope gauge cluster, leather interior... The whole 9. But I know that is all time and money.

It's a lot better than going to buy a new "Kia koup" off the lot for over 20k.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:39 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

Um... Not really. You're getting a new car. Buy the right one, you're getting a fast Kia / Hyundai. Swap in a Si-R power plant, and work from there. Atts is a limited edition item more than a performance mod.

If you wanted to keep it, I'd google Atts upgrades or rebuilds to see if anyone beefs up the unit or reprograms them... Costly of course.

Just drive /upkeep your prelude until a better tuning platform becomes available.
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:30 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

can you use an SH block and the euro-r tranny? of course with the removal of ATTS
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:13 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

I don't think the Euro R tranny will bolt right up. Don't you have to use an intermittent (half shaft) like all the ATTS delete write ups state?
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:54 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by DueceNikels55 View Post
Also... How hard was your Type S swap? How did the car run? Would you do it again?
I didn't have much auto mechanical experience when I started this, but i did it on my own, and I would say it was challenging. It took me about 3 weeks. not too bad considering I had never taken on anything this big before. I had a starter issue, but that was really the only problem i ran into. The Helms manual helped out tremendously. It runs great, there is a different tone to the Type S motor, maybe because of the intake/IM/TB/compression.

Also, I just used the JDM harness and ECU when I did the swap because I didn't know any better. I'm regretting that now, and will be swapping back to the USDM compnents.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:08 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

The Type S would take destroy the SH at the Dragstrip but the SH would demolish the type S at the Touring track. They are built differently to accommodate different drivers. Nuff Said!
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:10 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by DueceNikels55 View Post
I don't think the Euro R tranny will bolt right up. Don't you have to use an intermittent (half shaft) like all the ATTS delete write ups state?

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Old 02-12-2012, 02:37 AM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by MUGENBB4JDM View Post
The Type S would take destroy the SH at the Dragstrip but the SH would demolish the type S at the Touring track. They are built differently to accommodate different drivers. Nuff Said!
where the hell do you get this from?! They both have the exact same transmission, ATTS and same suspension components! The differences are in the motor. The Type S will outperrform the SH on all levels. More power!
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:18 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

These forums kill me, there are always people chiming in who have no clue what they are saying.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:44 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by DueceNikels55 View Post
These forums kill me, there are always people chiming in who have no clue what they are saying.
tell us about it, if you would had some clue you wouldnt get sh there in first place
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:54 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by james6183 View Post
where the hell do you get this from?! They both have the exact same transmission, ATTS and same suspension components! The differences are in the motor. The Type S will outperrform the SH on all levels. More power!
So if they are exactly the same, why is it so hard to mod the sh, is it the computer system in the sh? With that being said, can you just not buy a different management system for the sh and mod the motor and it be the same thing, just asking cause I just bought my first lude so I need to know these things. How can you tell the difference in the two, the motor stamps? Cause you say they both have atts, and from my understanding that's what makes it it hard to mod the sh, so how would it be different in the type s if it to has atts?
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:41 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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tell us about it, if you would had some clue you wouldnt get sh there in first place
wow, this is one of the stupidest responses I have read from you. There are things about the SH that are better, and considering not everyone wants to mod the hell out of their vehicle, it does make sense.

You sir, should refrain from posting the majority of the time.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:50 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by bluelude97 View Post
So if they are exactly the same, why is it so hard to mod the sh, is it the computer system in the sh? With that being said, can you just not buy a different management system for the sh and mod the motor and it be the same thing, just asking cause I just bought my first lude so I need to know these things. How can you tell the difference in the two, the motor stamps? Cause you say they both have atts, and from my understanding that's what makes it it hard to mod the sh, so how would it be different in the type s if it to has atts?
it is OBD2 and obd1 is what people tune on. atts is obd 2 so removing the stock ecu and ATTS computer disables it making it dead weight, greddy emanage is pretty much the only option for SH ludes but its still only an ok option.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:21 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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and considering not everyone wants to mod the hell out of their vehicle, it does make sense.
considering this person wants to mod
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:08 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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it is OBD2 and obd1 is what people tune on. atts is obd 2 so removing the stock ecu and ATTS computer disables it making it dead weight, greddy emanage is pretty much the only option for SH ludes but its still only an ok option.

So realistically I should eliminate the atts, go with a jdm h22 with a LSD tranny change the pistons to lower the compression, build the block and heads boost the hell out of it, and call it a day, with the atts eliminated I can still use my sh ecu and be good correct?

Or rip out the atts get different axles and do the same to my sh motor, because jdm motor would be worthless considering its a high compression motor, which would all to be changed for boost, hence seeming like a waste of money, unless there is something else in the jdm motor that would make it worth the buy, is a jdm spec motor obd1, or would it just be cheaper to convert my sh to obd1, I don't have emission testing in my state, so that will not be a problem throughout the process
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:52 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

after you re sleeve the block and get the forged low compression pistons, then you can call it a day. euro-r tranny with LSD would be best since its not an electrical LSD. you are gonna need OBD 1 and p28, p72 or hondata so you can tune it and not blow up. if you change the tranny you will need base lude axles. dont waste money on the jdm if its gonna get rebuilt.. just use what you got now or get a block thats already ripped apart and build that
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:03 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

Would Greddy Emanage give me any HP without boltons? Right now my SH is stock beside the Type S air intake, and as far as I can tell, adding HP is hit and miss with the Atts, so if I am just looking for small increases, if I were to buy an Emanage set up and have KaizenSpeed tune it for me, would I see any performance increases with no mods? I read somewhere that your engine is always changing throughout the years so getting it tuned is never a bad idea, does this hold true with stock parts?

I eventually will probably just start by adding a Try Y header into 3 inch exhaust and slowly add until I have to delete my atts. But for the time being...will the Emanage change anything about my Factory SH set up?
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:16 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

i;m not sure of its full capabilities
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:13 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

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Originally Posted by DueceNikels55 View Post
Would Greddy Emanage give me any HP without boltons? Right now my SH is stock beside the Type S air intake, and as far as I can tell, adding HP is hit and miss with the Atts, so if I am just looking for small increases, if I were to buy an Emanage set up and have KaizenSpeed tune it for me, would I see any performance increases with no mods? I read somewhere that your engine is always changing throughout the years so getting it tuned is never a bad idea, does this hold true with stock parts?

I eventually will probably just start by adding a Try Y header into 3 inch exhaust and slowly add until I have to delete my atts. But for the time being...will the Emanage change anything about my Factory SH set up?
Yes. It will disable the atts function. You can only run a piggyback system like the apexi vafc or neo. Whoever said the type sh will destroy the type s in touring is clearly misinformed considering they have the same suspension setup from the factory and the type s is lighter than the type sh due to no sunroof and other little differences. Also the difference in tone between the type s and type sh is due to the type s motor having a different valve angle, different valve springs, higher lift cams, different pistons, port and polished head from the factory,port and polished intake manifold, bigger tb (65mm tapered to 62), minor difference in the exhaust manifold (type s has a cylinderical downpipe vs. the oval downpipe in the sh/base), More aggresive factory tune, type s intake chamber, and last but not least, compression in the type s is 11:1 vs the 10:6:1 in the type sh/base. Sooo many misinformed people out their..

Last edited by bb6vtec; 02-14-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:55 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

^ I thought E-manage was a piggy back system that allows you to keep the ATTS. isn't that what "piggyback" means? No alterations to the stock ECU? I don't know much about piggyback systems yet, but I was under the impression that people use e-manage on SHs because they can't alter the original ECU.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:21 PM
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Re: SH vs Type S

Your right. For some reason i thought i read the greddy ultimate not realizing it was the e-manage. My fault. But yes, you can use any piggyback for the type sh and retain the atts.
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