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Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

 
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:12 PM
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Timing belt fun...



Timing belt is less then a month old (2000miles ago) and it was installed properly/professionally. apparently it was rubbing on a pulley and tore itself evenly into half its normal size. when the garage took off the timing cover, this was the shredded remains:



I was driving from a stop and my car wouldn't rev passed 2500rpms and about 20 mph when it all of a sudden just died. my valves may be still okay because the timing belt is still on there and it didn't skip surprisingly
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:33 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

found the problem - the brand spanking new automatic tensioner cracked and lost tension. it broke as we took it out of place.



I should've listened and switched to a manual tensioner like everyone says on. this forun. lesson learned. thankfully the engine is fine.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:46 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

wtf how does it crack like that
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:47 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

Time for a manual


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wtf how does it crack like that

Cheap casting.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:08 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

Convert to a manual tensioner!
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:26 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

this is why people change to a manual tenisoner. You can get a full T-belt kit with a manual tenisoner for about $180 from Import Replacement Parts | Import Performance & OEM Parts and use the code preludeonline for a little discount
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:53 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

Apologies if this is too far off topic but what is the difference between an automatic and manual tenisoner? Also, Why is it recommended to change to a manual one?

To OP, glad you caught it before serious damage was done!
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:37 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

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Apologies if this is too far off topic but what is the difference between an automatic and manual tenisoner? Also, Why is it recommended to change to a manual one?

To OP, glad you caught it before serious damage was done!
the manual tensioner is much less prone to failure when compared to the automatic. As you can see from the OP his auto was nearly new when it failed.

The automatic tensioner is hydraulic, where as the manual relies on spring tension.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:29 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

funny thing is.. i dont think this was the only problem. we put a new auto tensioner in (just to see that it works) and my belt still "walked" as it ran and still rubbed. turns out where the pulley hooks up to the water pump was sitting crooked (brand new water pump) and caused the belt to walk as well so we replaced the water pump too and voila. finally no issue.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:22 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

Damn, thats some scary sh*t. Glad you got her taken care though.

So, you didn't switch over to manual tensioner then?
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:49 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

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So, you didn't switch over to manual tensioner then?
I am - they just warrantied the auto to see if the problem resolved. The manual tensioner kit is ordered.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:33 AM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

Gotcha.

Lucky, I converted over to manual when my motor was still out. But it's still cake to do even with the engine in the bay.
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The H22 wakes up the Accord in the same way a set of secondaries did to your father's Oldsmobile.
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Old 12-26-2011, 03:08 AM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

After I put in the new tensioner (auto tensioner), new belt and corrected the water pump issue, im getting a lot more vibration in the car. When im taking off from a stop, vibration gets bad at about 1300 then again at 3000. > 3000, no issue.

Anyone know what that could be? I really hope its not belt rubbing again :S
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:32 AM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

balance shafts are off. I recently redid my belt with the manual swap and my rear/oil pump balance shaft is off and i get alot of vibration right in those areas. have to pull the cover again and reset the balance shafts. The front is easy the rear they have to remove the access cover and shove a bolt/screwdriver into the hole to align it correctly.
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Old 12-26-2011, 03:58 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

What does a shop usually charge to replace a timing belt and tensioner. I am gonna be driving across country for different schools (Jump School, Tact School) soon and want to get that replaced since I dont know when mine was replaced last.
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:59 AM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

Manual Tensioner Conversion Kit
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:54 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

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Originally Posted by Decipher View Post
balance shafts are off. I recently redid my belt with the manual swap and my rear/oil pump balance shaft is off and i get alot of vibration right in those areas. have to pull the cover again and reset the balance shafts. The front is easy the rear they have to remove the access cover and shove a bolt/screwdriver into the hole to align it correctly.
yea, my mechanic said this could be it. apparently it can be off 180 degrees and you cant tell till you run it as there's no marking to tell you which 180 degrees to turn it

is it bad to run on it like this? ill ask them to take it apart and check it again but just in case they dont
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:45 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

you need to find another mechanic .. the tensioner was installed backwards is why it broke and if you have half a brain you can install the balance shaft belt with out being 180 out as there are very clear marks as to where they go .. the shop has a retard working on the car .. get out of there before they cost you a motor .. all the marks can be lined up without issue as long as you can read instructions .. gtf out of that shop as soon as you can .. they installed the tensioner backwards and when they tightend it down it broke because its offset to go on one way .. then they didnt line up the balance shafts right when they did it the second time .. they are lucky they didnt cost you a motor ... RUN while your car still does ..

btw people dont change to a manual tensioner because the tensioner housing fails its the actual hydro part of it that fails and loses tension ..

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Old 12-30-2011, 12:52 AM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

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you need to find another mechanic .. the tensioner was installed backwards is why it broke and if you have half a brain you can install the balance shaft belt with out being 180 out as there are very clear marks as to where they go .. the shop has a retard working on the car .. get out of there before they cost you a motor .. all the marks can be lined up without issue as long as you can read instructions .. gtf out of that shop as soon as you can .. they installed the tensioner backwards and when they tightend it down it broke because its offset to go on one way .. then they didnt line up the balance shafts right when they did it the second time .. they are lucky they didnt cost you a motor ... RUN while your car still does ..

btw people dont change to a manual tensioner because the tensioner housing fails its the actual hydro part of it that fails and loses tension ..
k before you go haywire with assumptions.. the shop that did the original timing belt change is NOT the one i take the car too now. im well aware of the markings on one of the balance shafts but i was of the understanding from a few seperate honda mechanics that the other can be 180 degrees off and the markings wont show that..

also, if you take a look at the discoloration of the metal on the tensioner of where the crack started, there is an internal crack which is the darker grey like material. the internal crack is much older and as such the discoloration shows that. the more white surface is a fresh crack. the part was not installed backwards, it was just defective..

i appreciate that your looking out for me here, but im not that negligent. if you could answer my question about the balance shafts being off as they are, that would be awesome because I will more than happily ask them to redo it if its dangerous
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:53 AM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

Now you can get this and will never fail!

KAIZENSPEED’s new H22 Timing Tensioner directly replaces the stock H22 auto tensioner and eliminates the annoying H23 manual tensioner conversion.

The stock H22 automatic tensioner, also called a hydro tensioner is known for premature failure, causing bent valves at the least.

The H22 Timing Tensioner eliminates the need for an H23 manual tensioner conversion. Instead of spending your time reading how-to articles, this tensioner allows you to simply remove two bolts and replace your failed tensioner with one that can never fail!

Never use H23 manual tensioner conversion parts again!

For nearly a decade now, all of us H22 guys have had the problem of failed auto/hydro timing belt tensioners. I’ve seen the stock H22 auto tensioner fail more times than I can count. Brand new, OEM tensioners often fail in a matter of months, leaving you dead in the water with bent valves.

In the old days, we would use the H23 manual tensioner parts, which had a host of annoyances. Installation was time consuming and there are a lot of little parts involved in the conversion. The H23 tensioner spring can come off it’s post and get chewed up by the timing belt. And most importantly the H23 tensioner pulley was larger which made installing the timing belt a real pain! CNC machined from billet aluminum with a hardened tension rod and jam nut. The custom-made adjustment wrench included with each tensioner makes for an easy, five minute installation during a timing belt change.

Price: $99.95

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Old 12-31-2011, 08:02 AM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

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Originally Posted by zpirbhai View Post
k before you go haywire with assumptions.. the shop that did the original timing belt change is NOT the one i take the car too now. im well aware of the markings on one of the balance shafts but i was of the understanding from a few seperate honda mechanics that the other can be 180 degrees off and the markings wont show that..

also, if you take a look at the discoloration of the metal on the tensioner of where the crack started, there is an internal crack which is the darker grey like material. the internal crack is much older and as such the discoloration shows that. the more white surface is a fresh crack. the part was not installed backwards, it was just defective..

i appreciate that your looking out for me here, but im not that negligent. if you could answer my question about the balance shafts being off as they are, that would be awesome because I will more than happily ask them to redo it if its dangerous

there are marks on both balance shafts .. the second shaft the rear one has a plug you remove to pin it because that shaft is hard to see the marks on ( without the motor out of the car) .. but it is simple to get it close to the mark ( not 180 out ) and then use the proper size bolt to pin it .. ive done at least 20 h motor timing belt / balance shaft belts and never had one off ..
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:43 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
there are marks on both balance shafts .. the second shaft the rear one has a plug you remove to pin it because that shaft is hard to see the marks on ( without the motor out of the car) .. but it is simple to get it close to the mark ( not 180 out ) and then use the proper size bolt to pin it .. ive done at least 20 h motor timing belt / balance shaft belts and never had one off ..
ahh okay that makes more sense with what they were saying. im going to get my more reliable mechanic take it apart with me and check out everything and reset the balance shafts.

thanks for your help
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:17 PM
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Re: Timing belt fun... (big picture warning)

dang!
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