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Old 02-27-2011, 08:34 PM
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Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

I recently had my motor rebuilt and one of my piston rings didn't seat right so I took it to a local mechanic. He told my step dad that I needed 103 octane gas because my head was rough. What I don't understand is that I'm using some Nippon 11:1 compression pistons and I have seen on forums where people ran these with 93 octane. Being a daily driver I won't be able to afford 103 octane gas so should I take the 11:1 pistons out and put stock ones in?
Here's the parts I've put on the car

SKunk2 pro 1 cams
Hondata Heatshield
p28 ecu
3in exhaust
hytech replica header
11:1 pistons
AEM CAI

Also the car is running on basemap.
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:38 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

what makes you think a ring didnt seal ??? low compression numbers ??? leak down test show it ???? you should have no issue with 93 octane my old motor was closer to 12 to 1 no issues at all on 93 ...
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:49 PM
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I did a compression test and one of the pistons was low.

Yeah, that's what I can't figure out, I've seen preludes run 12:1 with no issues. I think I might have got some bad gas or something.

Last edited by hotrod; 03-02-2011 at 03:33 PM. Reason: merging back to back posts.
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:55 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

how low was the number compared to the rest ??? cel ?? missfire ??? what led you to do a compression test ??? if its just a little low could be whomever put the rings in didnt install them as they should .. ring gaps lining up can result in a lower compression number ..
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:59 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

I was about to go get it tuned and wanted to make sure compression was good. Can't remember exact number but it was about 25 psi below the rest of them. I did get a cel but the ecu cleared before I could get a code.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:23 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

what kind of oil did you use for break in ??? syn oil wont let the rings bed in .. need to use reg oil for break in ..
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:25 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

Yeah i used dino. That's another reason I did a compression check. I used a quart of oil within 400 miles.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:39 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

a little oil use is normal during break in but thats a little much . sounds like there was something not right with that cyc when it was put together .. im gonna guess the ring gaps are lined up .... sorry to be the bearer of bad news .... unless its broken down its gonna be hard to say for sure whats wrong . i would venture to say unless your injector is dumping fuel and wiped the cyc wall down its an error in assembly ...
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:46 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:52 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

good luck my friend .. hope it all works out well
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:10 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

x2 on the gaps being lined up, doesn't make sense for new pistons to be installed and one being that much lower than the others, probably installation error
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:46 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

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Originally Posted by Moonflash View Post
Yeah, that's what I can't figure out, I've seen preludes run 12:1 with no issues. I think I might have got some bad gas or something.

Bad gas? I doubt that could even be relevant. The other information in this thread points directly to the issue.

And the mechanic you went to see... Did he say to run some race gas in it to possibly help seat the ring or that you need to run race gas because of the compression?

If its the second one... You better come on down to GA and let someone who has a clue look at it...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonflash View Post
Yeah i used dino. That's another reason I did a compression check. I used a quart of oil within 400 miles.
This should be alarming... This also sounds like its more relevant than the idea of bad gas...

You could have about 10 different things wrong causing this.

The problem is, you mention low compression in one cylinder along with oil consumption. There is no way this is due to improper ring alignment like other guys stated unless somehow all the rings are perfectly in alignment. Sounds like whoever rebuilt this engine should have been measuring and adjusting more than throwing together.

Who built the engine?

Nippon pistons... Stock h22 (as in Type S pistons)?

Why were the pistons replaced?

Was the rotating assembly balanced?

New rings?

More information is really needed to help diagnose or inform you of the proper steps to take from here. But, my first assumption is rebuild it before you need a new block.


Im sorry to come off as such an A-Hole.. But, I see this same thread over and over.. Without enough information, its hard to even know if its worth the effort to bother. Half of these threads remain open ended too because the motor ends up blown or trashed and never fixed. Help me help you and maybe we can resolve your issue better.

And yes... Ive built a few H series motors.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluelude View Post
Bad gas? I doubt that could even be relevant. The other information in this thread points directly to the issue.

And the mechanic you went to see... Did he say to run some race gas in it to possibly help seat the ring or that you need to run race gas because of the compression?

If its the second one... You better come on down to GA and let someone who has a clue look at it...






This should be alarming... This also sounds like its more relevant than the idea of bad gas...

You could have about 10 different things wrong causing this.

The problem is, you mention low compression in one cylinder along with oil consumption. There is no way this is due to improper ring alignment like other guys stated unless somehow all the rings are perfectly in alignment. Sounds like whoever rebuilt this engine should have been measuring and adjusting more than throwing together.

Who built the engine?

Nippon pistons... Stock h22 (as in Type S pistons)?

Why were the pistons replaced?

Was the rotating assembly balanced?

New rings?

More information is really needed to help diagnose or inform you of the proper steps to take from here. But, my first assumption is rebuild it before you need a new block.


Im sorry to come off as such an A-Hole.. But, I see this same thread over and over.. Without enough information, its hard to even know if its worth the effort to bother. Half of these threads remain open ended too because the motor ends up blown or trashed and never fixed. Help me help you and maybe we can resolve your issue better.

And yes... Ive built a few H series motors.
It was built because I blew the motor. I was running it to hard and it had 200,000 miles on it at the time. I put the pistons in because when I had the engine rebuilt I had some extra money so I bought the type S pistons. The mechanic is saying that I need racing fuel to run the 11:1 pistons. The mechanic that built it is a local shop in my hometown, he's built an h23 before so I trusted him. If I new before hand what would be happening I probably would have taken it to Fastech to get it built. Yes the rotating assembly was balanced. I guess I've had some bad luck with this whole deal, I've already spent 3 grand on the parts and rebuild. Your not coming off as an a-hole to me just someone trying to help.

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good luck my friend .. hope it all works out well
Thanks!

Last edited by hotrod; 03-02-2011 at 03:33 PM. Reason: merging back to back posts.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:46 AM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

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Originally Posted by Moonflash View Post
It was built because I blew the motor. I was running it to hard and it had 200,000 miles on it at the time. I put the pistons in because when I had the engine rebuilt I had some extra money so I bought the type S pistons. The mechanic is saying that I need racing fuel to run the 11:1 pistons. The mechanic that built it is a local shop in my hometown, he's built an h23 before so I trusted him. If I new before hand what would be happening I probably would have taken it to Fastech to get it built. Yes the rotating assembly was balanced. I guess I've had some bad luck with this whole deal, I've already spent 3 grand on the parts and rebuild. Your not coming off as an a-hole to me just someone trying to help.


Well. It sounds like the mechanic who built it screwed up something when assembling it. Without knowing what happened when the motor blew, I'm have a bit of trouble telling you where the problem is.

Did any cylinder walls get damaged? Honed block?

Did you match up A/B pistons with the block? Each block has the cylinder size printed for each cylinder on it. Factory specs were so tight that they built two piston sizes and called one A and the other B. Most blocks have a mix of piston sizes. AABA or ABBA for example is a common notation.

Did the mechanic align the rings correctly (as asked by others in this thread)

Did the mechanic grind the rings to the correct clearances? (most likely one of your issues. Poorly gapped rings will cause everything described and ruin a cylinder wall nicely)


If its blowing oil and has low compression you honestly have a problem.. The mechanic should be held responsible for the build and fix the problem. This has nothing to do with the gas. And, the rings should have all seated themselves by now well enough to have consistent compression numbers.


You can run 11:1 compression all day long on 91 or 93 octane gas. The car must be tuned to keep detonation from destroying the motor, but it will not need race gas of any sort.

My H23vtec is running 93 octane gas. 12:1 compression.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:55 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

Gas has nothing to do with it, as lilblue said. If the rings did not seat correctly (or more importantly, all but one did) then chances are someone screwed up the rebuild.

A bunch of things could cause it, all to do with the rebuild process, such as incorrect crosshatch, improperly fitted pistons, improper piston ring installation, improper piston ring gap/fitment, etc.


It is not going to go away by itself. I would make the person who did the rebuild correct the problem.



P.S - You don't use regular conventional to break in an engine. You would use conventional with zinc additive or break in oil. You need the zinc to protect against friction damage until it gets broke in.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:41 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

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Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Gas has nothing to do with it, as lilblue said. If the rings did not seat correctly (or more importantly, all but one did) then chances are someone screwed up the rebuild.

A bunch of things could cause it, all to do with the rebuild process, such as incorrect crosshatch, improperly fitted pistons, improper piston ring installation, improper piston ring gap/fitment, etc.


It is not going to go away by itself. I would make the person who did the rebuild correct the problem.



P.S - You don't use regular conventional to break in an engine. You would use conventional with zinc additive or break in oil. You need the zinc to protect against friction damage until it gets broke in.
I don't think it would have anything to do with the break in process or the oil because it only happened to once cylinder, but you never know I guess. After you drive like 50 miles on your break in you are suppose to drain your oil because of all of the medal pieces so you do not have to worry about a zinc additive in that oil because more zinc does not protect you for more but it protects you for longer, for 50 miles %0.005 zinc could protect you for 50 miles, but with it being the break in you would want at least %0.01 which every oil I know of has at least that much zinc. But your next oil change I would add some zinc additive.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:02 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

I did not say that break in or oil had anything to do with it.

And there should not be any metal shavings in the engine after a rebuild. However, you want to put a magnet on your pan and filter just in case. The zinc is to protect the engine from excessive wear because the parts are not worn in yet.

You always use zinc additive with conventional or formulated break-in oil which contains zinc. This is a must for breaking in an engine. And you don't change break in oil at 50 miles, you change it at about 500.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:06 PM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

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Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
I did not say that break in or oil had anything to do with it.

And there should not be any metal shavings in the engine after a rebuild. However, you want to put a magnet on your pan and filter just in case. The zinc is to protect the engine from excessive wear because the parts are not worn in yet.

You always use zinc additive with conventional or formulated break-in oil which contains zinc. This is a must for breaking in an engine. And you don't change break in oil at 50 miles, you change it at about 500.
I would change it at 50 miles just in case then at 500 miles also, then somewhere around 2000-3000 then you can start using synthetic
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:39 AM
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Re: Mechanic Told Me I need racing fuel

Use regular non-synthetic oil for the first 3,000mi. change at intervals 100mi 500mi 1000mi 3,000mi.
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