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2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

 
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:44 PM
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2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

Hey folks. My wife just bought a 2001 SH with 130K miles. We took it to a mechanic that has serviced 4 out of 5 of the past vehicles that I have owned. The mechanic has over 25+ yrs exp dealing predominantly with Hondas. The car she bought has an engine noise. I tried to bring it to her attention. And she didn't pay me 2 cents worth of attention. 12 years difference in us. Me being 12 yrs younger. Anyway, the mechanic said the the car has a lower engine noise and the it could be piston slap or something else. He said he wasn't sure. I will post a video clip with sound the beginning of next week. My question is what would roughly be the cost of a newer engine for the car? And where would be the best place to purchase it? Of course all of this is hypothetically speaking. Thanks to you all that respond...
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Last edited by Danno; 01-09-2011 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:25 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

i paid 900 for my 2.3 vtec 120 for a timing belt water pump and associated parts ( granted i am a mechanic and did the install myself ) so around a grand .
if you were to buy a jdm 2.2 your gonna pay around 1400 and about the same for removal of the old motor and install of the new one . i would suggest having someone with swap exp do the swap .
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:48 AM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

2.3 vtec? Wow, I didn't know there was such a thing. Thanks for the numbers.
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:34 AM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

If you pay $1400.00 for someone to take out your current motor to put another one back in your phucking crazy! That is called robbery and whoever tries to charge that won't be in business for too long. Typically from the area I live in you can get a swap (engine removal and new engine dropped in) for $300.00 to $500.00 if it's a direct swap and nothing needs to be altered. You can also find JDM engines only, no trans, for $700.00 on up to 3 grand. There are some on craigslist right now going for $700.00 with 30,000 miles on them and they are charging $425.00 extra to do the swap for a grand total of $1125.00. Look around and you'll find the price that's right for you.
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:56 AM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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Originally Posted by Leavemdroolin View Post
If you pay $1400.00 for someone to take out your current motor to put another one back in your phucking crazy! That is called robbery and whoever tries to charge that won't be in business for too long. Typically from the area I live in you can get a swap (engine removal and new engine dropped in) for $300.00 to $500.00 if it's a direct swap and nothing needs to be altered. You can also find JDM engines only, no trans, for $700.00 on up to 3 grand. There are some on craigslist right now going for $700.00 with 30,000 miles on them and they are charging $425.00 extra to do the swap for a grand total of $1125.00. Look around and you'll find the price that's right for you.
i would not pay some retard $425 to put in a jdm motor . the removal and install itself takes an easy 6 hrs ( to do right ) not to mention you should have to swap the oil pump housing ( or rewire the dizzy ) in any obd2 jdm swap another 2 1/2 to 3 hrs to do right . a new timing belt , water pump , balance shaft belt and balance shaft seal kit another 1 1/2 to 2 hrs . so at least 9 hrs of time to do it right not to mention any parts . timing belt , water pump , balance belt , thermostat , oil , coolant and a few other things . so and decent shop ( not a hack place ) charges $80 to $100 hr depending on location . so at $90 thats $810 in labor and another at least $300 in parts and fluids . if i needed a motor put in my car ( and i was not capable myself ) i would rather pay a reputable place $1200 than some retard $425 just to have to end up having put another one in or have problems . you get what you pay for . **** i do work on the side and no way would i ever do a swap for $425 id have to charge at least $800 to do it myself , but that is going to be done right not hacked together .
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:57 AM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

that blows
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:36 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
i would not pay some retard $425 to put in a jdm motor . the removal and install itself takes an easy 6 hrs ( to do right ) not to mention you should have to swap the oil pump housing ( or rewire the dizzy ) in any obd2 jdm swap another 2 1/2 to 3 hrs to do right . a new timing belt , water pump , balance shaft belt and balance shaft seal kit another 1 1/2 to 2 hrs . so at least 9 hrs of time to do it right not to mention any parts . timing belt , water pump , balance belt , thermostat , oil , coolant and a few other things . so and decent shop ( not a hack place ) charges $80 to $100 hr depending on location . so at $90 thats $810 in labor and another at least $300 in parts and fluids . if i needed a motor put in my car ( and i was not capable myself ) i would rather pay a reputable place $1200 than some retard $425 just to have to end up having put another one in or have problems . you get what you pay for . **** i do work on the side and no way would i ever do a swap for $425 id have to charge at least $800 to do it myself , but that is going to be done right not hacked together .

Whooaahhhh, pump your brakes kid!! Hack job please..my mechanic puts them in for me for $350.00 and he's super reputable. You can give him a call if you like here's the number, 760-949-5552 - ask for Jeff the owner of J&J Performance. He has done 6 different cars for me. Dude has built 10 second cars have you? Nuff said. I have never ran into anyone that charges $1400.00 for a simple motor swap period, maybe somewhere else (another state) where Honda work isn't so common that is the case but if they were to try and charge that here in SoCal they wouldn't be in business long and that's the bottom line.

Here's another one for you that does them in my local area as well and doesn't charge $1400.00JDM H22 PRELUDE MOTOR & H23 VTEC SiR ENGINE h22a honda h22a1 h22a4 f22
Also here is a link to their report from the BBB and they have an A- rating..BBB Business Review of Gold Autos, LLC. - Automobile Parts and Supplies Retail - Rialto, CA Sound like a hack job to you?

I don't know where you're from but those are outrageous prices and I wouldn't pay them. These guys here will never get away with that period, cuz they would be out of business fast. On another note, if the engine needs a new water pump, timing belt they will pay for those parts but not more on the installation. Even $800.00 as you say is laughable for a motor swap and if you quoted me that price I would
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Last edited by Leavemdroolin; 01-09-2011 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:21 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

woahhh woahh im not a kid . ive been working on cars for the past 16 years ( myself not paying someone to do my swaps ) and ive done way more than 8 swaps for myself so i know how to do it right and how to half ass it . for 350 its half ass .



there is no way for $350 he is doing timing belt , tensoiner , water pump , thermo fluids and all . not even on an advanced auto budget . no way . any jdm engine supplier states there is no warranty if this is not done . in my opinion if you dont do this its not done right . period . i would never put a motor in my car without doing so . so i guess im like a super mechanic or something . if its not done this way its hacked in my opinion period .

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Old 01-09-2011, 01:51 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
woahhh woahh im not a kid . ive been working on cars for the past 16 years ( myself not paying someone to do my swaps ) and ive done way more than 8 swaps for myself so i know how to do it right and how to half ass it . for 350 its half ass .



there is no way for $350 he is doing timing belt , tensoiner , water pump , thermo fluids and all . not even on an advanced auto budget . no way . any jdm engine supplier states there is no warranty if this is not done . in my opinion if you dont do this its not done right . period . i would never put a motor in my car without doing so . so i guess im like a super mechanic or something . if its not done this way its hacked in my opinion period .

Really no way? I have posted a phone number and a link to another shop that has a good reputation with the BBB and all you're doing is bad mouthing everything because you charge out the a-s-s! As far as not doing timing belt and water pump I have had them done every time there bud and for right around that price and nowhere near what you're saying. Call him yourself, proof is right there. Calling him a hack job is way out of line cuz like I said how many 10 second cars have you built? I'm in no way doubting your skills as a mechanic but you are out of line with some of your comments period. I can find deals like this all day over here, you want more links? Powerhouse, J&J, Gold Autos etc etc...Also if these guys were doing hack jobs they wouldn't be in business long either ya think. Word of mouth travels fast in the Tuner community and they would be reported to the BBB and to everyone that owns a Honda by mouth. These guys build these cars everyday.
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:03 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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Originally Posted by Leavemdroolin View Post
Really no way? I have posted a phone number and a link to another shop that has a good reputation with the BBB and all you're doing is bad mouthing everything because you charge out the a-s-s! As far as not doing timing belt and water pump I have had them done every time there bud and for right around that price and nowhere near what you're saying. Call him yourself, proof is right there. Calling him a hack job is way out of line cuz like I said how many 10 second cars have you built? I'm in no way doubting your skills as a mechanic but you are out of line with some of your comments period. I can find deals like this all day over here, you want more links? Powerhouse, J&J, Gold Autos etc etc...Also if these guys were doing hack jobs they wouldn't be in business long either ya think. Word of mouth travels fast in the Tuner community and they would be reported to the BBB and to everyone that owns a Honda by mouth. These guys build these cars everyday.

ok i charge out the ass you got me . BUT ITS DONE RIGHT WITH HONDA PARTS NOT PEP BOYS . enough said . by the way ive built quite a few 10 second cars so watch your mouth . my last was a 704whp sti that went 10.20s not to mention my fathers shop had national record holding cars ( national not local ) and i just finished a 93 supra that made 749whp ( no slips yet as it is winter ) so i know how to build **** the right way . so there goes that argument . go get your swaps done for 350 and i keep doing mine my way . hears a link on ebay to a honda timing kit (ebay ) over 300 for the kit alone . so u tell me ? 97-01 HONDA GENUINE PRELUDE TIMING BELT KIT 97-01 OEM - eBay (item 220718982058 end time Feb-02-11 08:36:48 PST)
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:08 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

having a good rep with the bbb just means that they resolve **** before it gets that far thats all . i know plenty of shops that do ok work for cheap and people love them . id rather charge more and know its done with the best parts , tools and the best work ethic .
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:45 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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having a good rep with the bbb just means that they resolve **** before it gets that far thats all . i know plenty of shops that do ok work for cheap and people love them . id rather charge more and know its done with the best parts , tools and the best work ethic .

And that's exactly how he does it point blank. Where's your Dad's shop and what's it called/located? I'm very interested now. National records (not local) built by your Dad that is impressive but that just goes to reason why you would charge out the ass if he's a world renown race car builder. I'm telling you that he (J&J) builds these cars with factory Honda OEM water pumps and timing belts all day long for that price and I haven't had a single problem with anything mechanically that he's built. Just because you charge more money doesn't make you the best either or any shop for that matter. If I can get the same work with the same worksmanship and quality why would I pay you? Once again I'll say it again, I'm not questioning your mechanic skills just your prices. Also where are you from? That might have a lot to do with it as well.

And PS...

Building a 10 second Honda CRX or hatch and an STi and or Supra is like comparing apples and oranges so miss me with that argument. How many Honda 10 second cars have you built?
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The initial cost of a retrofit might make you pee down your leg, but it will be well worth the wet socks in the end.

Last edited by Leavemdroolin; 01-09-2011 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:05 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

Wow.... Hey fellas. Let's not trip balls here. Looks like that's too late. Appreciate the opinions though.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:43 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

copy and paste from alldata pro

2001 Honda Prelude Type-SH L4-2157cc 2.2L DOHC (VTEC) MFI



Engine
Replace
Complete Assembly Without Transfer of Parts 6.4
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.

Complete Assembly With Transfer of Parts 9.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel & Electrical Units. Does Not Include Transfer Of Optional Equipment.


strait from alldata . 9.8 hrs labor at $ 85 to 90 an hr average indi shop you do the math . thats including no parts , fluid or shop supply cost . you get upset i called him a hack well basically you called me a theif pardon me for getting a little defensive . i go by the book like any good mechanic would ( unless they wanna eff themselves or you as a customer ) i guess if hes that good and cheap hes just effing himself considering parts alone ( no fluids ) is over 300 . hes paying you to let him do the work lol . so anyway there is a copy and paste of what any decent shop is gonna base there estimate off of . by the way my fathers shop was weatly bros racing cambridge md 56 chevy 2 door sedan delivery pro stock class 76 , 77 and 79 . all motors and trans built in house . got the plaques at my pops next time im down ill take some pics if you need the proof .
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:02 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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Originally Posted by Leavemdroolin View Post
Whooaahhhh, pump your brakes kid!! Hack job please..my mechanic puts them in for me for $350.00 and he's super reputable. You can give him a call if you like here's the number, 760-949-5552 - ask for Jeff the owner of J&J Performance. He has done 6 different cars for me. Dude has built 10 second cars have you? Nuff said. I have never ran into anyone that charges $1400.00 for a simple motor swap period, maybe somewhere else (another state) where Honda work isn't so common that is the case but if they were to try and charge that here in SoCal they wouldn't be in business long and that's the bottom line.

Here's another one for you that does them in my local area as well and doesn't charge $1400.00JDM H22 PRELUDE MOTOR & H23 VTEC SiR ENGINE h22a honda h22a1 h22a4 f22
Also here is a link to their report from the BBB and they have an A- rating..BBB Business Review of Gold Autos, LLC. - Automobile Parts and Supplies Retail - Rialto, CA Sound like a hack job to you?

I don't know where you're from but those are outrageous prices and I wouldn't pay them. These guys here will never get away with that period, cuz they would be out of business fast. On another note, if the engine needs a new water pump, timing belt they will pay for those parts but not more on the installation. Even $800.00 as you say is laughable for a motor swap and if you quoted me that price I would
Interesting, that link provided with the motors say $1200 for the h22 installed and $1400 for the H23a installed. I have never heard of a place in jersey that does swaps that cheap, Especially with a h series motor. Hell even one of the main prelude gurus of this forum does them for like $600. You seem to just have a lucky place near you. My personal swap was $1450 with all seals and belts replaced.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:51 AM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

Here is a link to the video. The first 33 seconds or so is the car immediately after a stone cold crank. The remaining time in the video is with the engine warm. The noise is dramatically worse at normal operating temperatures.

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Old 01-10-2011, 01:49 AM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

Wow, definately an odd noise. From my not limited, but not extensive engine experience, you will normally have more issues when cold than at operating temp. obviously due to basic physics of expansion and contraction. But at the same time I can see this being caused by lack of viscosity once the oil has heated up. This may be a dumb question but has the oil been changed recently and is the level proper. It definately sounds different than an out of adjustment valve, but could it be a stuck valve??? My car made a not so different noise at one point. Now this sounds crazy but could it be coming from your exhaust??? I had a peice of my catalytic converter break and position itself sideways and at certain engine speeds and particularly when I shut it down would get a horrible clunking sound. We more or less found it by realizing it was coming out the tailpipe as well. Just a couple thoughts.

As far as the shop arguement goes, I would like to be kind of a mediator. From my perspective, neither of you are wrong...or right.

A shop or region can be very proficient at a particular make or model or procedure. Because one does a job inexpensively doesnt mean it's bad or wrong and because someone charges more doesn't mean it's robbery. Haul your car from MD to SoCal to have the job done for $800 less and see what the better deal is.

And in the same token while it may take shop X 4 hrs to do a remote start in a 03-06 GM fullsize I can almost crack into the 1 hr mark and we even solder all wires and when done you wouldn't know there was any work done. Because we do TONS of them due to popular vehicles in the area. But a newer highend luxury car could take us 6 hrs. and we charge more for that! No apologies given! They take more time in our shop, they cost more.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:53 AM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

The oil looks like it has less than 1,000 miles (almost new) and it is at the proper level. I will check the exhaust. Just for the h*ll of it.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:55 AM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

Oh and it had been suggested that it might be the auto tensioner going out??
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Old 01-10-2011, 02:10 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

I can't listen to the audio, but if the car seems to run relatively fine, then it prolly isn't piston slap. I would think that would cause it to you know, not really run. Well.

Anyway, could be many things. I'm thinking it might be valvetrain noiser, which would indicate you need a valve lash or a new timing belt.

Could also be timing belt slap, meaning the auto tensioner has just about failed. Or if its more of a growling type thing it could be the auto tensioner going bad.



Take all that with a grain of salt. Without listening to the audio I'm just groping in the dark. But thats my .02
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:32 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

Audio is in the clip above.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:48 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
copy and paste from alldata pro

2001 Honda Prelude Type-SH L4-2157cc 2.2L DOHC (VTEC) MFI



Engine
Replace
Complete Assembly Without Transfer of Parts 6.4
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.

Complete Assembly With Transfer of Parts 9.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel & Electrical Units. Does Not Include Transfer Of Optional Equipment.


strait from alldata . 9.8 hrs labor at $ 85 to 90 an hr average indi shop you do the math . thats including no parts , fluid or shop supply cost . you get upset i called him a hack well basically you called me a theif pardon me for getting a little defensive . i go by the book like any good mechanic would ( unless they wanna eff themselves or you as a customer ) i guess if hes that good and cheap hes just effing himself considering parts alone ( no fluids ) is over 300 . hes paying you to let him do the work lol . so anyway there is a copy and paste of what any decent shop is gonna base there estimate off of . by the way my fathers shop was weatly bros racing cambridge md 56 chevy 2 door sedan delivery pro stock class 76 , 77 and 79 . all motors and trans built in house . got the plaques at my pops next time im down ill take some pics if you need the proof .
I think you misunderstood my previous post. He charges $350.00 for the swap and then extra for the parts needed such as water pump, timing belt and gaskets. It still doesn't come up to anywhere near $1400.00. This is a direct quote from a previous post, "On another note, if the engine needs a new water pump, timing belt they will pay for those parts but not more on the installation." That is exactly what I said. Also, he doesn't get charged full MSRP for those parts and in return doesn't tax his customers full MSRP either. He gets wholesale prices from Honda so those parts you're talking about wouldn't cost over $150.00.. If you worked in a shop you would know that, its "basic business 101". That's just like saying Skunk2 charges $360.00 for an intake manifold and that's what he pays for it! Why would he even bother? He makes his money from the parts that's not even an issue and he also has a very loyal clientele. I know some shops charge full MSRP for all the parts they sell and $100.00 an hour labor, but those are also the shops that over here aren't doing much business either. He is working on a lil something something for me and when it's done (hopefully within the next 6 months or so) I will post pictures of it and some dyno charts, maybe even a quarter mile time or two. If I offended you it wasn't my intention, but those prices are outrageous-at least what I'm used to
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:24 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

To the OP, can't listen to it. I can only use the computers at the library and I don't have headphones with me.

To the guys fighting over what a shop should charge...SSHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

You both have a point, and it is completely irrelevant. Cost depends on what they're charging for labor, which could be anything from $10/hr to $1000/hr. It is whatever the hell they want it to be, while still being competitive. Realistically, especially in this economy, it's prolly closer to $50-80/hr. Plus there is the labor time to do the swap. If they specialize in these swaps, they could do a 9 hour job in 3. Eventually if you do something enough you pick up tips and tricks that save time, plus if they do enough it justifies buying all the special tools. Plus there are many other things to consider, like where they buy their parts and what kind of discount do they get on parts, how much tax the state or area makes them collect from the customer and what they charge for EPA/Shop Mat.

So neither one of you is wrong. If one guy can do it cheaper, it may not mean they are doing dogshlt work. It may just mean that they can buy the parts cheaper, collect less taxes, and can do it faster because they specialize in it. On the other hand, for the same or opposite reasons, it could be more expensive.



So please. Shut up. kthnxbai




To the OP, if you want to know something generic, like the standard labor time for an engine swap, a good online place to purchase a used JDM engine, or a good place to buy honda OEM parts for cheaper than the dealer, we can help with that.
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Last edited by havikprelude; 01-11-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:58 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post


So please. Shut up. kthnxbai



Phuck off and I mean it in the nicest of ways
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:57 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

That shut up wasn't really very mean-spirited, but its hard to transmit emphasis or sarcasm or nonverbal cues over the internetz.

No offense meant, no offense taken.



And I forgot my dam headphones again today. >_<
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:55 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

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Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
That shut up wasn't really very mean-spirited, but its hard to transmit emphasis or sarcasm or nonverbal cues over the internetz.

No offense meant, no offense taken.



And I forgot my dam headphones again today. >_<

I know bro, just having some fun with it I've got thick skin.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:16 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

okay... piston slap i dunno. it doesn't sound constant.... it sounds like when one of the cylinders hits a compression stroke it stutters or something... like bad valves. this is what i want you or your mechanic to do:
compression check
leak down
do and oil change and check for any debris.

if you have piston slap... it would be smoking ex: blow by. and no compression.
tell us what you find. sounded in the clip like surging and high idle. you could even have a clogged cat....causing too much back pressure.
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:19 PM
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Re: 2001 sh with piston slap? WTF

A friend of mine that is a mechanic has broken down the top end of the car. Cams are burred and valves show a good bit of wear. I hope that is all that is wrong..
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