Honda Prelude Forum
 
Go Back   Honda Prelude Forum > Tech-Talk > 5th Gen Honda Prelude

Thread Title
Valve adjustment failed...?

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2010, 05:53 PM
jbdakid's Avatar
I'm New
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)
jbdakid is on a distinguished road
Valve adjustment failed...?

ok, my 98 Prelude recently started to tap louder so I adjusted the valves myself. I have like 160k on the car and 40k on the motor. I have done this before but this time, It sounded just as loud. A couple of weeks later, I had to replace the head gasket. My wife overheated the car. I had the head milled and once I got it back together, I took it to a Honda dealership to have the valves professionally adjusted. They claim that they can't get the valves adjusted properly. What other parts might be in the head that could be causing this? They are saying that it doesn't seem like a bent valve but they are not sure what it is?

Has anyone had this experience? What was the solution?

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2010, 06:11 PM
Not So New
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26
iTrader: (0)
dkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

I would look for other sources. You can use an old school technique of putting your ear on a long flat head screwdriver and touching on various spots to single out the source of the noise. I have one over two feet long and it works great to make sure you fix the right thing the first time. Check dist./timing covers/block and it may also be possible that one of your lifters is in a bind. You might pull the caps off the cams and check for any uneven wear on the journals. I have seen some civics(sohc) that will make a loud tapping noise if the cam/lifter assembly is not bolted down evenly causing more wear on one journal than another. I know the h22 is different just throwing some ideas out there.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2010, 06:12 PM
Not So New
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26
iTrader: (0)
dkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

sorry, rockers might be in a bind, not lifters
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2010, 08:07 PM
jbdakid's Avatar
I'm New
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)
jbdakid is on a distinguished road
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkspd View Post
I would look for other sources. You can use an old school technique of putting your ear on a long flat head screwdriver and touching on various spots to single out the source of the noise. I have one over two feet long and it works great to make sure you fix the right thing the first time. Check dist./timing covers/block and it may also be possible that one of your lifters is in a bind. You might pull the caps off the cams and check for any uneven wear on the journals. I have seen some civics(sohc) that will make a loud tapping noise if the cam/lifter assembly is not bolted down evenly causing more wear on one journal than another. I know the h22 is different just throwing some ideas out there.
Good stuff!! The part that I bolded might be something to check for me...

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2010, 10:09 PM
RandallSharp's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,172
iTrader: (3)
RandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

I had a "professional" mechanic tell me the same thing. He explained the, "valve seats" were too worn down to hold adjustment. Like having bad ball joints and getting an alignment. After explaining to me why he couldn't do the job, he then proceeded to charge me for it...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2010, 10:15 PM
jbdakid's Avatar
I'm New
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)
jbdakid is on a distinguished road
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallSharp View Post
I had a "professional" mechanic tell me the same thing. He explained the, "valve seats" were too worn down to hold adjustment. Like having bad ball joints and getting an alignment. After explaining to me why he couldn't do the job, he then proceeded to charge me for it...
So was it the valve seats? How did you resolve it?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2010, 10:21 PM
RandallSharp's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,172
iTrader: (3)
RandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond reputeRandallSharp has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbdakid View Post
So was it the valve seats? How did you resolve it?
I just left it alone, lol. The tick wasn't too terrible. Still ticks though. From what I've gathered, you can actually replace the valve seats and it's not rather expensive. I've been told that worn valve seats will cause the adjustment to only last a short period of time and some "honest" mechanics won't even do it because it's a waste. I may be completely wrong, but you could look into it.

EDIT: A quick Google search led me to this:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar993.htm

I just skimmed over, but it might be worth a look.

It mentions that overheating is a cause of valve seat failure.
__________________

Last edited by RandallSharp; 12-07-2010 at 10:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2010, 01:12 AM
ranger11x's Avatar
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: deltona fl
Posts: 824
iTrader: (0)
ranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond reputeranger11x has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to ranger11x
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

if your head over heated your adjustment locking nuts may be stuck to the adjusting screws....2 different metals+too much heat=teh ohh noezzzzzz
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:33 AM
jbdakid's Avatar
I'm New
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)
jbdakid is on a distinguished road
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

Good suggestions. Has anyone had this issue and solved it?

When I took it to a dealership, I was hoping that someone would have seen this before and could say, "I've seen this before and it's probably this.." I guess I may just have to go the trial and error way.

Thanks guys.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2010, 05:18 PM
Not So New
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26
iTrader: (0)
dkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

Just curious, when you originally did the valve adjustment did all the adjusters move freely and this may seem like a dumb question but did you adjust them to the spec with a feeler gauge and recheck them after tightening the locknut to make sure the adjustment screw didn't move when tightening. Another dumb question probably but did you rotate the crank and adjust them when they were closed. I just always try to start with the simple things and retrace my steps. Some times the dealer is not the most reliable and some times they won't do things that independents will do(like fix window switches and such). I have never seen hondas have problems with valve seats but then again one of the things about working on cars in general is that you learn something new on a regular basis : )
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2010, 05:30 PM
Not So New
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26
iTrader: (0)
dkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

Sorry to post again so soon. I just remembered an incident that happened one time I did a head gasket on an integra. The machine shop accidentally bent the top part of one of the valve stems somehow but I didn't know till I started it up and took the valve cover back off to investigate. The recommended way of fixing this is removing the head again and replacing the bent one. You could try to straighten it with the valve spring removed but this will probably wear on the guide. Make sure you don't drop it in the cylinder if you attempt this. Compressed air into the spark plug hole helps a lot. Not one of my finest moments but I straightened the valve(very carefully/pry bar) and the car ran great. The guy has had no oil consumption and even said he was very happy with how well the car ran a couple of years after the fact.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2010, 08:25 PM
jbdakid's Avatar
I'm New
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)
jbdakid is on a distinguished road
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkspd View Post
Just curious, when you originally did the valve adjustment did all the adjusters move freely and this may seem like a dumb question but did you adjust them to the spec with a feeler gauge and recheck them after tightening the locknut to make sure the adjustment screw didn't move when tightening. Another dumb question probably but did you rotate the crank and adjust them when they were closed. I just always try to start with the simple things and retrace my steps. Some times the dealer is not the most reliable and some times they won't do things that independents will do(like fix window switches and such). I have never seen hondas have problems with valve seats but then again one of the things about working on cars in general is that you learn something new on a regular basis : )
These are good, each locknut and adjuster was able to move and I used the feeler again after tightening. I assume that the dealership did the same..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkspd View Post
Sorry to post again so soon. I just remembered an incident that happened one time I did a head gasket on an integra. The machine shop accidentally bent the top part of one of the valve stems somehow but I didn't know till I started it up and took the valve cover back off to investigate. The recommended way of fixing this is removing the head again and replacing the bent one. You could try to straighten it with the valve spring removed but this will probably wear on the guide. Make sure you don't drop it in the cylinder if you attempt this. Compressed air into the spark plug hole helps a lot. Not one of my finest moments but I straightened the valve(very carefully/pry bar) and the car ran great. The guy has had no oil consumption and even said he was very happy with how well the car ran a couple of years after the fact.
I can check this,it's possible.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2010, 08:32 PM
jbdakid's Avatar
I'm New
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)
jbdakid is on a distinguished road
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

So after changing my oil twice, I decided to do it again. I put some motor flush in and ran it for like 10 minutes and it got quieter and then I changed the oil and it seems like there was still some coolant mixed in. I added Lucas treatment to the oil and it seems to be getting better..? Next I plan to double check the timing. Thanks for all of the suggestions, I'm working my way through them, hopefully I'll solve this!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2010, 06:01 PM
Not So New
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26
iTrader: (0)
dkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond reputedkspd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

honda's don't have hydraulic lifters even though cleaning out your engine is a good idea anyway: ) sometimes technicians can be lazy and assume they know what the problem is. if they think you don't have any money they will just listen and then blow you off with BS. try running it with the v-cover off to see which one is the problem. makes a mess!
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2011, 01:49 PM
jbdakid's Avatar
I'm New
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)
jbdakid is on a distinguished road
Re: Valve adjustment failed...?

ok so I finally got some time to work on this. Yesterday I pulled everything apart and reset the timing, which really didn't seem to be off to me but I did it anyway. After I got mostly everything put back together, something told me to adjust the valves again. As I was going through I noticed that one of the tappet adjusting nuts on cylinder 3 (exhaust side) was MISSING!! I'm not sure if this happened at the machine shop or at the dealership but it was off.



I adjusted all 16 valves and some of them were off as well. Things sound much better. It still taps a little but I think that the norm for these. Before the tapping was outrageous!!

Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Valve adjustment xplicitcivic94 4th Gen Honda Prelude 1 10-05-2010 08:29 PM
No more Mis-fires..yay for valve adjustment! Fliperflop 5th Gen Honda Prelude 0 02-24-2010 08:01 PM
Valve adjustment, when? mckillio General Tech Talk 0 02-03-2010 11:56 PM
Valve Adjustment snakerb General Tech Talk 13 06-16-2009 06:35 PM
Valve Adjustment?.. 3rdGenCrazy 3rd Gen Honda Prelude 14 03-22-2009 11:22 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:53 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


Copyright © 2006-2009 PreludeZone.com All Rights Reserved.