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Old 10-31-2010, 05:47 PM
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Idle Surge

Yeah yeah yeah there is tons of these but I swear mine is different. Hoping someone else had this happen.

Only at cold start up, mine surges from 1500-2000RPMs. Once it's warm it does not do it.

Why mine is special;
-It's 1500-2000RPMs
-It will only do it if you tap the gas (think idle kick down on a carb'd car)
-If I don't touch the gas pedal, it will idle about 2000RPMs, then work it's way down as the temperature climbs to about 700RPMs at normal operating temperature.
-No surging as long as you let it warm up the way it wants to.

It seems to have started when the temperature started cooling off. If it's warm outside when I get up to start the car for the first time, it does not surge.

I am thinking it has to do with idle because the car never used to idle so high when first started (2000RPMs).

Tried so far;
-Cleaning the screen on the IACV
-Cleaning the EGR valve
-Coolant flush/fill/bleed
-New coolant temp sensor
-Cleaning throttle body with throttle body spray
-Spraying carb cleaner all around TB and intake mani to check for leaks
-Tracing all vacuum lines to check for holes/leaks
-New PCV valve
-Sticking fingers in top and bottom hole inside throttle body

When I stuck my finger in either hole the car did the same thing. It idled down and ran smooth. When I took my finger out, there was still no more surge. Same results for both holes.

If I do start the car when it's cold, and do hit the gas to make it surge, the car will only do it for 30 seconds to a minute and then it stops on it's own.
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:40 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

fast idle valve is prolly wuts messing up.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:00 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

You think the part is just bad?
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:41 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

Just a thaught but it could be a vacuum leak maybie the intake manifold gasket. I think this maybie because it does it when its cold and if its a small leak when the car heats up it may expand from heat and the leak may seal itself more. Try shooting some carb cleaner around the intake manifold and see if it fluctuates from that when its cold.
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Old 10-31-2010, 10:55 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

Hmmm, yeah I thought about that too. Didn't get any results though.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:43 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

Try cleaning the fast idle thermo valve.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:17 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

Try FITV first.


Also I haven't really been able to confirm this yet, but I've been getting differing opinions about spraying carb cleaner to check for leaks. Many say they do it, and I've heard quite a few saying do not do it because it will eay through rubber and gaskets.

So you might want to be careful about that.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:34 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

def the FITV, since thats what controls the idle when the engine is cold. and you don't clean the FITV, you twist it clockwise all the way down.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:36 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

OK. I will pull that sucker back off today and try screwing it in.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:07 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

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Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
def the FITV, since thats what controls the idle when the engine is cold. and you don't clean the FITV, you twist it clockwise all the way down.
Don't you twist it all the way down then back if off a quarter turn?

Haven't read the sticky in awhile.
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:14 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

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Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Don't you twist it all the way down then back if off a quarter turn?

Haven't read the sticky in awhile.


maybe. i haven't read it either, the point i was tryna make was you don't clean it, you twist it
but if cleaning is your thing, then by all means...
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:28 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

i hads a similar problem it happened to be my tps sensor
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:35 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

hey man i got the same problem. let me know what ya find out please
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:08 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

screw your fitv in all the way lightly, then back it out a quarter turn with two flathead drivers. should be it probly, but the part could be bad if its out of adjustment all the time. the fitv is made to do that though, so constantly adjusting something isnt gonna make it go away completely. you could always bypass the fitv hoses, or just use a s2000 throttle body with no fitv.
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:21 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

This is that it says on Honda-Tech;
"To fix a bad FITV:
Firstly, the FITV is the thing you see bolted to the bottom of the throttle body in the picture above.
Take the intake tube off.
Disconnect the two coolant hoses running to the throttle body, the first one is the front hose in the picture above, the other one comes out of the FITV on the bottom right as pictured above.
Get a 1/4" drive ratchet and a 10mm short socket, and loosen the 3 10mm bolts that hold the FITV to the bottom of the TB, the first two can be seen above, the third is a little further back.
Take the valve off if it already didn't fall off, make sure that all 3 o-rings are still on the valve, if not, make sure you catch them before they fall off the bottom of the throttle body, you may have to peel them off.
Get a small philips head screwdriver, and take the gold metal plate off the back of the valve.
Screw down the white outer ring as far as you can, honestly there is no standard good tool to use for this, my dad happened to have some funky tool that fit it just right, either way, just screw the ring down, if you get it all the way down, back out half a turn, the nipple in the middle should have at least 1/8" of play.
Reassemble."

Bout to go try it. Wish me luck.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:37 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

Well, I screwed the plate in all the way and then back out a half turn. Now when I start the car it's cold idle is around 1200RPMs with no surge. It is kind of warm outside today so I will not know for sure until the temperature drops some more but it seems to have worked. I'll post tomorrow if it did work for sure.
Here is some clarification;

This is what you take off. It's held on by 3 10MM bolts that screw in from the bottom. In this picture I have removed the two coolant lines already. You lose a couple ounces of coolant.

These are the O rings the article from Honda Tech tells you not to lose.

This is the bronze colored plate you have to remove to get to the valve. I used an 8MM socket to get the screws off because they were pretty damn tight.

This is the valve and nipple. I used my fingernails to screw it clockwise in for a little while and then switched to two screwdrivers. Sometimes I was able to turn it with one screwdriver. Mine probably went in 15-20 turns. Even when fully tightened, that nipple in the middle would push in about 1/4 inch.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:22 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

i had the same problem and just screwed in my idle adjustment screw today and it fixed it
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:23 PM
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What's the "idle adjustment screw"?

Just went outside and started it. It's pretty chilly out and it wasn't surging.
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:51 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

I don't think you want to be messing around with your idle adjustment screw...
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:43 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

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I don't think you want to be messing around with your idle adjustment screw...
why not? when i screwed it back in it doesnt surge anymore. it idles at a steady 2200 when its cold now.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:59 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

Which is too high...
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:16 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

Where is this "idle screw"?
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:21 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

when your looking at the face of the throttle rotor, its on that side of the TB. i believe its on the top of all 'lude TB's, it's a flat-head screw.
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:27 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

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Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Which is too high...

my bad. it only idles at 2000 til its warm then goes down to about 700. and as for where the screw it at, it is on the throttle body side kinda towards the back. its a flathead screw
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:44 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

thats wayyyy too high, even for cold weather. Im only getting 1100 to 1300 cold max, and warms up quick. if you've done all the before mentioned, and still have a bad idle, make sure it really is a bad idle first seriously.

Preludes are obviously known for that and burning oil worldwide, but if it drives you mad, yank fitv, put a S2000 tb in there. Then I can see adjusting the idle screw [if there is one] on the s2k tb. I might do that just because of how old my car is, most everything needs replacing.

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Old 11-03-2010, 12:56 PM
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so what should i do?

and also i know this is in the 5th gen section but would it be the same for my 4th?

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Old 11-05-2010, 03:48 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

It's been a couple days and my idle surge has not returned. Thanks guys.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:38 AM
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Re: Idle Surge

Hey..i know im comin in late on this forum..but..i have a '94 Prelude and im dealing with the same problem. The surging when first starting the car and then the high idling between 1500-2200rpms...I bought the book for my car, and it talked about unplugging the Electronic Air Control Valve (EACV) and then adjusting my idle screw, and then pulling the Clock fuse/or Back Up fuse, then restarting the car. Well i tried it and as soon as i pull the EACV the surging becomes drastic..so then my cooling fan's werent working so i thought maybe it was a sensor issue..not telling my ECU that my car is getting to hot, so the engine was surging to make the fans kick on..so i replaced 3 different sensors. still didnt work..so then someone told me to try to adjust the FITV..so i took it off today and pulled it apart..cleaned it out and tightened it all the way then pulled it out a quarter turn..put it all back together..and...NOTHING..i think the idling just dropped a small bit..someone told me to check my vacuum lines..did any of you fix the problem eventually???? im running out of options and patience! haha

thanks
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:01 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

well first off what book did you buy? if its the chilton toss that.

I never heard of pulling a fuse to fix idle. And you cant unplug the eacv anyway, youll throw a code instantly on 5th gens i know. the ecu looks for the eacv in particular. if its not there, code. So replug that, after you clean its screen again. clean it religiously.

the FITV is the piece that you can bypass, you can probly just throw a s2k throttle body on it, which has no FITV. it is located on the bottom of the stock TB, and on the s2000 the "rotary" air valve is on the ITM instead. you might have to cap or reroute a hose or two.

you could also just "delete" the hoses running from the EACV to the FITV, and run just one hose from the EACV instead. that should bypass it, and i dont see how you could throw a code, there is no connection on the FITV to the ECU/PCM.

the fans take forever to come on if youre just sitting there, might not happen at all without some harder driving. Doubt its the sensors. So.... things you havent thought of might be-

BATTERY. FUEL MAIN RELAY. IGNITION SWITCH. REPLACE/BYPASS FITV. REPLACE EACV. FRESH HOSES.

adjusting the screw might help a bit, but really that will never fix surging. the screw just raises and lowers your idle, nothing else. after i yanked my cruise control seems like i eliminated one vac leak in particular, did my hoses and now my idles lock in like they know how. My only prob now is the idle drops to 0 when the car is warmed up. I just rev it once and it locks back in at 800, which is what my screw is set to.

If you have disconnected your battery for a long while [longer than 30 min], REMAP the car. Meaning you will have to teach the ECU everything again, mappings for all the voltage drops for all your accessories [PS, HEADLIGHTS, AC, ETC]. This is especially the prob when you disc the batt multiple times. Do a search for my cruise control delete thread, i explain it much better there.

sounds like you have either been doing too much or asking the wrong people. I got lucky and found some local owners who also work on cars like me, they all had real good input. Finding someone who can wrench and has a Prelude of the same year is the best idea. It is an old car so take your time, dont get fed up. I have 210k on my 5th gen, and it runs sooooo good for that mileage, just shat on an AMG worth 78K more than my lude cost, think that guy is probly jumping off a cliff now.


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Old 11-06-2010, 12:04 PM
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Re: Idle Surge

Have you sprayed carb cleaner around your intake manifold, fuel injectors, and throttle body to see if you have a leak?

Have you tried cleaning the EGR valve and making sure it's gasket isn't messed up?
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