Honda Prelude Forum
 
Go Back   Honda Prelude Forum > Tech-Talk > 5th Gen Honda Prelude

Thread Title
EGR Bypass Questions

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 01:29 PM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
EGR Bypass Questions

i haven't been able to find a last of pros/cons of the EGR bypass ON THESE CARS

i have done it on Toyota pickups just to free up space under the hood, so i'm sure it will be the same on these cars. but besides just that what are the pros/cons of it?

what will be needed to do it? could i do this in one afternoon with only a basic toolbox?

i'm interested in doing it, but i don't want to do it then it turn out to be a bad idea.
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 02:03 PM
JohnnyH23's Avatar
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguadilla, Puerto Rico
Posts: 520
iTrader: (3)
JohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnyH23 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

You can either chip your ECU and turn the EGR off or wait and see if this guy starts selling these: Finally eliminating the CEL with EGR bypass for 4th gens
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 02:31 PM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

CEL wont bother me, its on all the time now anyway. i'm real close to pullin the bulb out. wat do i need engine wise to do it? i know i will need the block off plate for the valve itself, what else?
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 02:48 PM
street_ride14's Avatar
Silver Member
ROTM!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 479
iTrader: (0)
street_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oktoberyzing View Post
i know i will need the block off plate for the valve itself, what else?
thats it, nothing else needs to be done to the engine. Remove EGR valve and replace with block-off plate. Unclip the connector and hide it or cut it, CEL code would be stored in the ECU. Remove the vacuum lines and other EGR components near the driver's shock tower, unclip one connector there as well, and you're done.
__________________
1993 Honda Prelude SiVTEC

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 08:44 PM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

wow, much easier on a prelude than a toyota pickup
93 5.0 mustang

so i need to make myself a plate? remove the egr valve, tie the wires back, remove the thing on the driver side with the vacuum lines and cap off those two vacuum lines on the intake? thats it, theres no more vacuum lines hiding anywhere else i need to know about?
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 09:47 PM
street_ride14's Avatar
Silver Member
ROTM!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 479
iTrader: (0)
street_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oktoberyzing View Post

so i need to make myself a plate? remove the egr valve, tie the wires back, remove the thing on the driver side with the vacuum lines and cap off those two vacuum lines on the intake? thats it, theres no more vacuum lines hiding anywhere else i need to know about?
precisely, everything is on top and easy to reach and remove in the Prelude, nothing is hidden.
__________________
1993 Honda Prelude SiVTEC

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 09:56 PM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

good deal
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 10:06 PM
street_ride14's Avatar
Silver Member
ROTM!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 479
iTrader: (0)
street_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond reputestreet_ride14 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

interesting why you don't care about your CEL codes .. if it was me I'de be so anal about it and want to fix anything that sets those codes off .. those CELs are sometimes useful in figuring out why your car runs the way it does
__________________
1993 Honda Prelude SiVTEC

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 11:11 PM
soto2635's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: strong island,ny
Posts: 2,533
iTrader: (6)
soto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond reputesoto2635 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to soto2635
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

is the egr also what can cause the dumb idling from the vaccume lines on that side? cause i got my car inspected failed due to egr system but i get a code everyone in awhile for the retarted idling i have to reset everything by disconnetcing and connecting the battery like 3 times a day cause if i dunt need it and its causing it fuk it its gone!!
__________________
N.Y.P.O.C.
Everything you need to know bout the 5spd swap I MEAN EVERYTHING!!! CLICK Here

FAQ's auto tranny failure click HERE and click HERE

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2010, 11:37 PM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

well, lemme rephrase, i do care about the CEL, but not as much as just throwing a code to get rid of the egr. i dunno why but i have thought in my head that the egr is EVIL. HOPEFULLY, eventually Nfrank89 will be able to make his magic little egr CEL bypassers to sell, in that case i will buy one.

But as of now my car has been throwin a CEL since i got it for cyl. 1,2,&3 misfire, random misfire and MAP sensoe faulty. BUT IT RUNS FINE!!! so, i dunno, the MAP sensor may be bad, and i may be missing because of my valves been out, i'm workin on gettin pennies scrapped to buy a valve cover gasket set, and possibly a MAP sensor. but as of right now, wat little money i do get goes to buyin gas to get back and forth to school.
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2010, 03:32 PM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

what is the upside to doing away with the egr valve, does it actually send the exhaust gas back to the intake on these cars, i know it does on toyota trucks, but when i was looking at it earlier today i didn't see where it did, or does it travel back into the intake through those two vacuum lines?
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2010, 12:05 AM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

is there a company that makes a blockoff plate? i havent found one, and i know for a fact i could make one(some) if others are interested.
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 12:12 AM
MilanoH22ALude's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 210
iTrader: (0)
MilanoH22ALude has a spectacular aura aboutMilanoH22ALude has a spectacular aura about
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

Yes the EGR system does work on these engines too. The exhaust gets fed through a path in the head from cylinder 4 to the EGR valve. An image of the EGR's cylinder4 exhaust port entry hole:

The vacuum lines associated with EGR are purely to control the EGR system (I believe the EGR valve opens only at certain throttle positions, rather than being open under vacuum or no vacuum)

I believe what you believe: I don't like EGR (hot exhaust fumes being plumbed into the intake manifold should = knock!!!).lol. But from what I have read, the EGR actually has a cooling effect much like excess fuel after combustion during WOT (cooling the combustion chamber).

Your easiest bet is to simply get some scrap metal, use tin snips to cut it to the EGR's outline and then wedge that in between the manifold and EGR. But if you really do dislike the EGR valve, buy a plate to block it off.
__________________


1991 BB1 Honda Prelude Daily (auto box)- 15.34 @ 150km/h
1992 BB4 Honda Prelude Drag Build- 14.43 @ 158km/h
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 02:18 AM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

by wat your saying, you mean puttin a plate between the egr and the manifold? which is basically just blocking it from puttin hot gas in my intake but operating and it still look like it there and not make the CEL come on?
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:35 AM
havikprelude's Avatar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,477
iTrader: (0)
havikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond reputehavikprelude has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

The egr system is actually pretty beneficial to the operation of your engine. The pros of keeping it defintely outweigh the cons. I don't understand why you dislike it so much, but thats your choice.

To bypass it, you block it off with a metal plate. Then you get a CEL. There are a couple ways to prevent this, which are listed on this forum. General tech-> N/A. Start there.
__________________

Battery, Starter and Alternator Testing Procedures
Problems starting engine? | 5th gen resource

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BadBB6 View Post
You're such a whiny little douche sometimes, but posts like these make me love you.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 11:02 AM
RSK0807's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 52
iTrader: (0)
RSK0807 is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

You should PROBABLY clean the EGR ports out pretty well before you make your final decision. clogged ports may be causing your EGR problems... After that, if you still feel the need to bypass. Then add your block off plate.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 03:26 PM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

to me, its bad because, there is hot carbon-y air going directly into my combustion chamber. i understand the downfalls of removing it, it makes my engine run a touch warmer, but in turn should make me get better fuel mileage, or so it has done on every other engine i have done it to. the reason i posted about my last post was to ask exactly what MilanoH22ALude was saying, i didn't quite understand what he was saying exactly. i didn't understand if he was saying put a plate in between it, or remove it completely.
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 08:53 PM
MilanoH22ALude's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 210
iTrader: (0)
MilanoH22ALude has a spectacular aura aboutMilanoH22ALude has a spectacular aura about
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oktoberyzing View Post
to me, its bad because, there is hot carbon-y air going directly into my combustion chamber. i understand the downfalls of removing it, it makes my engine run a touch warmer, but in turn should make me get better fuel mileage, or so it has done on every other engine i have done it to. the reason i posted about my last post was to ask exactly what MilanoH22ALude was saying, i didn't quite understand what he was saying exactly. i didn't understand if he was saying put a plate in between it, or remove it completely.
The EGR valve can be broken down to a very simple sensor (kindof like the MAP vs injector vs oxygen sensor situation):

The ECU gets a signal/input from the EGR valve lift sensor (top most part of the EGR valve) indicating a degree of valve lift (ie theoretical amount of exhaust gasses flowing, Honda calculated this as they did for the air flow vs MAP sensor).

The ECU (using a range of engine sensor inputs) sends an output/activation signal to the EGR solenoid valve and opens the valve a certain degree depending on conditions. The ECU has internal tables that it uses for reference to determine if the valve is open the correct amount given the engine conditions.

So to exploit their engineering, the sensor isn't directly sensing gas flow, but simply EGR valve lift. If the valve stops moving (you unplug it due to removing it or the valve gets clogged) you will get a CEL. BUT if you place a plate (3mm or so thick) in between the EGR valve and intake manifold, then bolt it all together and leave the lift sensor connected (feel free to clean it out so it moves freely), you will achieve two things: No EGR flow but the ECU will still be happy because the lift sensor is still moving around so the "EGR must be working".

Sorry I don't have a picture to illustrate. Will take some pics of my spare intake manifold to illustrate.

So yea, if you want to delete the EGR and don't want the CEL, just block it off and leave the EGR sensor plugged in with vacuum. I do have to say that the block off plate may not work on OBDII, it's more complex (the ECU does look for a momentary drop in manifold vacuum when EGR activates (so increased MAP voltage at the given rpm/throttle) once the EGR is opened) and I haven't tried it but on OBDI it works a charm. I am not sure how well that feature works on OBDII but if it is fine tuned the ECU would prove too smart and throw a CEL anyhow.lol

As to benefits of removing it, on a stock engine I would say you are better to keep it there. Fuel maps have been tuned by Honda to have the EGR present. The exhaust gasses dilute the air fuel mixture, have a cooling effect and obviously reduce carbon emissions. Deleting it is fine if you are running Hondata/Crome etc but the stock ECU may not respond so well. I have never actually looked into how the EGR valve's activity changes with throttle position/engine load, but that would be handy to diagnose hesitation and WOT misfires etc. What I will add is that if your EGR valve is clogged and doesn't seal off properly, you will have exhaust gas leaking through, which will lean out your air fuel mixture and lead to misfires. So the EGR is great when its working but I don't like leaning out my air fuel ratio, hence the dislike of the EGR system.
__________________


1991 BB1 Honda Prelude Daily (auto box)- 15.34 @ 150km/h
1992 BB4 Honda Prelude Drag Build- 14.43 @ 158km/h

Last edited by MilanoH22ALude; 10-26-2010 at 10:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 01:38 AM
Oktoberyzing's Avatar
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Summit, MS
Posts: 174
iTrader: (0)
Oktoberyzing is on a distinguished road
Re: EGR Bypass Questions

thanks man, after reading your post about 4 times out loud to understand some of it, LOL, i understand what your saying. so now, i'm back to my thinkin board to see if i really want to do this or not. again, thank you
__________________
2001 Base
Short Ram intake

Sig pic is work in progress, still learnin Photoshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by havikprelude View Post
Well, if you can't fix it with a hammer, then it's an electrical problem.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ENG: universal - DIY Coolant bypass mod 91hondaluder DIY Engine 32 03-03-2013 07:51 PM
Tb& IAc bypass question (just want to be sure) zuptidi 5th Gen Honda Prelude 1 10-02-2008 06:13 PM
Bypass IACV??? mysticskyline 5th Gen Honda Prelude 0 08-13-2008 06:15 PM
immobilizer bypass the_one General Tech Talk 0 11-01-2007 11:33 PM
Amp Bypass nevrdun I.C.E. 0 08-31-2007 11:57 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:46 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors


Copyright © 2006-2009 PreludeZone.com All Rights Reserved.