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5th gear grind, infamous?

 
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:59 AM
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5th gear grind, infamous?

I just read a really helpful writeup on the N/A section. I was reading the drivetrain section of that write up and it said that the H22 is infamous for a poorly designed shift fork for the 5th/reverse gear. It also said that when fixed, people report it coming back in a few thousand miles. My 5th gear does grind going in and my reverse gear is sometimes difficult to engage (doesnt grind though). Now, isnt this just a worn out synchro?

Does anyone have this problem? How did you handle this?


Thanks a lot!

Brad
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:13 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

It is a bit of an infamous problem tbh, usually only affects when shifting up into 5th at high revs (5k rpm or more). Most people think its the synchro and can be avoided (apparently) by double clutching into 5th.

Not sure how much truth there is in that, its just what ive read.
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:56 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

I had this on my first Lude which was a 1997. Only noticable when changing into 5th at speed. At normal driving speeds I didnt notice anything worng. TBH if its not that noticable let it be, unless your regularly changing from 4th to 5th a 90+ mph . Its not going to cause your gearbox to fail.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:26 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

I got my 01' prelude a few weeks ago, and had to discover the hard way about 5th gear. The thing is that it sporadically grinds when going into 5th (i try to keep my shifting at around 2500rpms). However, i had read that some people dont have grinds when shifting around 2000rpms. Just tried it out tonight with success.

Although im a little new to manual trannys, I too have heard that double clutching avoids the grinding, but havent had any luck. Ive tried rev matching in neutral as im shifting into 5th, but still there is grind.

So for around the city driving, 2k shifts into 5th would be fine, but what if im doing hard acceleration onto the highway onramp and need to kick it into 5th at higher rps...how can i shift without grinding (including with double clutching).

Anyone have any luck/experience with the 5th gear double clutching solution?
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:19 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

Double clutching isnt ideal as you cant drive as fast as you would want to. So it still grinds even at low rpm's?
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:41 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

If its grinding even at low rpms there may be another problem there other than the synchro. Maybe release bearing or slave\master cylinder?
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:53 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

Yeah, sorry. Im reading my post again, and i can see why its unclear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin View Post
Double clutching isnt ideal as you cant drive as fast as you would want to. So it still grinds even at low rpm's?
When i was double clutching, i was trying to rev match at the higher rpms like 2500+ with slight grinding as i am throwing it into 5th from neutral. Im going to keep playing with it some more though.

Again, just as i had wrote earlier, is that in normal street driving, i try to consistently upshift when the engine revs up to about 2500rpm. So what i have been doing instead of double clutching is that when im in 4th and accelerating towards that 2500rpm, ill clutch in, let my rpms drop to under 2k, gas it so it will stay at 2k, ease clutch out. No grinding feel or sound when i do that.

However, at those rpms, there isnt any way that i can be acclerating as fast as i want to be onto a freeway on ramp to merge into 70mph+ houston traffic without grinding or pissing off the people behind me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1DD3N View Post
If its grinding even at low rpms there may be another problem there other than the synchro. Maybe release bearing or slave\master cylinder?
If you are talking about the clutch slave/master cylinder, i had my mechanic check out and he says that its fine. Fluid levels are fine too. Not sure about the release bearing though.

However, since i bought this car second hand, maybe i should do a mtf drain and fill it with some honda approved stuff. That is one thing that just came to mind. Also seems like an easy and cheep thing to do to see if it fixes the problem. If it does keep grinding after that, do yall think that i should just keep driving around like this until my tranny needs a major overhaul or something major needs fixing? Otherwise, it feels like i didnt get my money's worth.




Here are some other questions:

1) Since this seems like a pretty common thing in 5th gen preludes having 5th/reverse gear problems, if i were to get the whole tranny overhauled, would the same problem arise again eventually? I mean, is it a part defect of some kind that can be swapped out for a better one? Or is it an actual design flaw in the entire transmission?

2) Are there any other issues with 5th gen preludes i should know about so i can look for them or expect and save up for repairs if need be? If so, i think somebody needs to sticky a post like "Things to look out for when buying an old prelude"




Good news at least is that i got the whole issue with water leaking into my trunk fixed. Im starting to think i didnt do enough research about looking for these little "quirks" in preludes before i bought it.... =(

At least i didnt buy a prelude with the automatic transmission. Hehe.

Last edited by Riven; 06-04-2010 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:01 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

I got a 98 prelude i commute everyday 60 miles plus to work. so I abused my 5th gear on the freeway alot and I think thats where my grinding is from.
I still haven't fix it yet but it only grind on high speed. in city its all good.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:11 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

I've got 128 K on my original tranny, no grind whatsoever. I guess previous owner just babied the car and so am I doing right now with it.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:37 PM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

I would like to know if this problem can be fixed by just getting a new shift fork for the 5th and reverse gear? along with all synchros.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:38 PM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

I'm also interested in a solution. My 2000 is a PITA to get into reverse most the time and 5th gear grinds pretty much any time I try to shift into 5th. Rev matching makes it go in fairly smoothly. I have the Honda MTF but have not put it in yet.
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Old 06-06-2010, 06:33 PM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

anyone?
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:39 PM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

Yeah, ive been thinking about it. I originally bought the prelude as a daily driver with no plans in the horizon to change anything on it. So, long term reliability is mainly what im looking for.

If long term the transmission problem keeps cropping up no mater how many times i fix it, ill probably dump this car the next quasi-major break down i have. However, if the problem is just a long term maintenance issue that can be cleared up with the right parts, i would love to keep driving this car until the day they enter her into the Smithsonian.

So of anyone can tell us if this problem is a parts issue which honda has addressed, or a permanent engineering defect, that would help me out ALOT.

Last edited by Riven; 06-06-2010 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:41 PM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

what tranny fluid are you using?
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:10 AM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

I changed my trans fluid to the Honda/Acura manual trans fluid a couple days ago and the issue is a lot better. I knew my fluid had been changed because just before I got the car someone had a shop put a clutch in it. The fluid that came out looked really fresh but apparently it was the wrong kind of fluid.

I have not had any trouble getting it into first or reverse since the change and the 5th gear grind is minimal now. A friend of mine told me it took two changes with the Honda oil to get his feeling really smooth.
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:13 PM
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Re: 5th gear grind, infamous?

I've had 2nd gear grinds, from a used 98 lude tranny during my swap. After alot of reading. I tried what everyone else did, SYNCROMESH. Just go to autozone grab the yellow bottle of Penzoil Syncromesh fluid, (you could use GM syncromesh from the GM dealer, but its alot more money, its the same stuff, if you read the penzoil bottle) along with a quart of 75w-90 gear oil ( i used valvoline). Quart of each, my tranny shifts smooth as a jessica albas ass with no herpes. ZERO grinds. I told my mech about it, he tried it too, all good results. Other cars use em too!

Another thing was, just 2 days ago, it was VERY hard for me to get into first gear, like I was locked out and 2nd and 3rd kept grinding. Not sure why, but my friend said I might have air in my lines, I bled the clutch lines and and what do you know, had mad air in there... Now its back to 100% again =)
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