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Won't start need to find it fast

 
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:49 PM
Rob Rob is offline
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Won't start need to find it fast

Anyhow, I have no idea if it is the stress of loosing my job or if its because its exam week at college. But my brain if fried. I tried to jump it but does not help, its almost like no juice getting to the starter. It may be as simple as a fuse but I'm not so sure. I have been having a little trouble lately starting my car it seems to have trouble starting lately like a low battery but its not. Only thing I have done lately is install my fog lights, but in doing so I accidently riped the valet switch out of my kicker panel. Now that wouldn't affect the being able to start the car would it. I do have an aftermarket alarm system, plus when I turn the key on I can hear the fuel pump cycling and when I twist the key to start I can hear what sounds like a relay from under the dash like a humming sound. I'm at a loss and with no time on my hands right now to solve this. If anyone has had similar trouble and can pass along your advice that would be awesome, thanks.

Rob
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:12 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

So, does it try to start at all? Like... want to turn over?
Or is it like a dead battery and it just click or nothing happen at all?
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:06 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by BB2H22A4 View Post
So, does it try to start at all? Like... want to turn over?
Or is it like a dead battery and it just click or nothing happen at all?
no doesn't turn over at all.

I almost want to jump the starter off to see if it will turn over and I bet it will. So whats between the starter and the ignition?
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:14 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

Ignition switch...

Has it been hard to start for awhile or anything? Usually there are good signs on a bad igntion switch before it fails.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:18 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by BB2H22A4 View Post
Ignition switch...

Has it been hard to start for awhile or anything? Usually there are good signs on a bad igntion switch before it fails.
Well I don't doubt it but would all the lights and everything still come on when I try to turn the key. Plus once turned on I hear the fuel pump priming, then when I turn the key I hear like a relay buzzing.

For about a week now I have been noticing the car being hard to start like it will start fine one minute and the next it wont. I bet its probably the main relay and those are like ouch exspensive, d@mn it.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:19 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
no doesn't turn over at all.

I almost want to jump the starter off to see if it will turn over and I bet it will. So whats between the starter and the ignition?


"the aftermarket alarm" a wire from the alarm could of came loose or dissconnected when you were messing around installing the fog lights. (even more so if you have a remote start also)Try to put the key in the ignition in the on position and hit the vallet switch once and see if the led light for the alarm stays on contant without blinking. That usually means the alarm is off. If you do start to get a one click noise when you try to start-- that usually means the starter is bad.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:21 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Well I don't doubt it but would all the lights and everything still come on when I try to turn the key. Plus once turned on I hear the fuel pump priming, then when I turn the key I hear like a relay buzzing.

For about a week now I have been noticing the car being hard to start like it will start fine one minute and the next it wont. I bet its probably the main relay and those are like ouch exspensive, d@mn it.
I'm not sure, I have never had one go bad on me. I just know when they are failing it becomes hard to start the car and sometimes it will shut off the car all together when it heats up.

I'd wait to hear from someone else who might know better. Someone should chime in soon.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:28 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by CTLude View Post
"the aftermarket alarm" a wire from the alarm could of came loose or dissconnected when you were messing around installing the fog lights. (even more so if you have a remote start also)Try to put the key in the ignition in the on position and hit the vallet switch once and see if the led light for the alarm stays on contant without blinking. That usually means the alarm is off. If you do start to get a one click noise when you try to start-- that usually means the starter is bad.
yeah I believe it might have something to do with the fact that this didn't start happening until I installed the fog lights and in doing so I accidently ripped the valet switch out in the process, so I guess first off I need to replace that switch but on a second note I can disable the alarm with the remote and it still wont start.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BB2H22A4 View Post
I'm not sure, I have never had one go bad on me. I just know when they are failing it becomes hard to start the car and sometimes it will shut off the car all together when it heats up.

I'd wait to hear from someone else who might know better. Someone should chime in soon.
Thanks man, usually just need another's input to troubleshoot. I'll find it just I hope soon as I have to have this car running.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:28 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

Im not a lot of help but i've noticed my car will start right away one minute, ill drive 5 mins to walmart go in come out and my car wont start and ill have to sit like 10 mins and it will. So i maybe it is something with the starter going bad or your main relay is completely shot idk. but im looking into a newer main relay and there around $30 on ebay so not to expensive..as for labor i dont know whether youd have to take it to a shop or you can DIY idk? all the info i have to offer maybe someone with better knowledge will soon assist you, good luck!
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:31 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by New_Lude12 View Post
Im not a lot of help but i've noticed my car will start right away one minute, ill drive 5 mins to walmart go in come out and my car wont start and ill have to sit like 10 mins and it will. So i maybe it is something with the starter going bad or your main relay is completely shot idk. but im looking into a newer main relay and there around $30 on ebay so not to expensive..as for labor i dont know whether youd have to take it to a shop or you can DIY idk? all the info i have to offer maybe someone with better knowledge will soon assist you, good luck!
I don't know about a main relay costing only $30. I replace the one in my 2nd Gen and that thing was like $200. I can handle the install its just I know they are $$$$
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:33 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by New_Lude12 View Post
Im not a lot of help but i've noticed my car will start right away one minute, ill drive 5 mins to walmart go in come out and my car wont start and ill have to sit like 10 mins and it will. So i maybe it is something with the starter going bad or your main relay is completely shot idk. but im looking into a newer main relay and there around $30 on ebay so not to expensive..as for labor i dont know whether youd have to take it to a shop or you can DIY idk? all the info i have to offer maybe someone with better knowledge will soon assist you, good luck!
This guide will show you how to access your main relay:

INT: 4th Gen Dash Removal

EDIT: I failed...That's not even the right generation.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:38 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by RandallSharp View Post
This guide will show you how to access your main relay:

INT: 4th Gen Dash Removal

EDIT: I failed...That's not even the right generation.
Now problem , I did see the main relay when I was installing my fogs while I was under the dash.

My second gen was in the same area really, so I bet the 4th Gen is not far off.

Plus I stand corrected on the price I found a used one on eBay for $22.95 plus $12.00 shipping (its from a salvage yard so am I sure this one is in good shape?)
I'd say no because if it has the same amount of miles on it that mine has it means it has the same wear and tear, so I bet it will be on its way out too.)
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:50 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

I gave it a shot, lol.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:42 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by New_Lude12 View Post
Im not a lot of help but i've noticed my car will start right away one minute, ill drive 5 mins to walmart go in come out and my car wont start and ill have to sit like 10 mins and it will. So i maybe it is something with the starter going bad or your main relay is completely shot idk. but im looking into a newer main relay and there around $30 on ebay so not to expensive..as for labor i dont know whether youd have to take it to a shop or you can DIY idk? all the info i have to offer maybe someone with better knowledge will soon assist you, good luck!
The same exact thing happened to both of my old 92 Accords. I replaced the main relay in both of them. It was a bitch figuring out the problem the first time! $55.00 brand new from Honda Dealer. IDK if prelude ones are more. If I remember though, I thought the main relay cut off the gas supply, and he said he hears the fuel pump running when the key is turned?? idk, maybe it cuts of power to the coil or something.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:57 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

If it doesn't turn out to be the main relay, maybe it's a ground? I know my car was being a bitch when I tried to start it before I replaced all my ground wires. Unlikely, but just a suggestion Rob.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:08 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
If it doesn't turn out to be the main relay, maybe it's a ground? I know my car was being a bitch when I tried to start it before I replaced all my ground wires. Unlikely, but just a suggestion Rob.
yeah that was my first thought, and I checked all those and they are good. I'm going to replace that switch first and see if that will fix it, if not back to the drawing table.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:11 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

Well I replaced the valet switch and still nothing, I got under the dash and while turning the key to crank I found the humming of the relay to be the main relay, also I can feel something toggling inside there. I'm guessing its worn out, is there a way to test the main relay?

OUCH main relay at the dealer is $101.35 told you they weren't cheap. Ah man what to do? How can you test these puppies?

Last edited by Rob; 05-04-2010 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:32 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

Testing a Honda Main Relay - Honda Main Relay Test - How To Test a Main Relay

There ya go Rob. Hope it helps.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:03 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

this may be a stupid suggestion but it used to get me through before i had my starter replaced if your starter is the source of the problem. hit it with a hammer or blunt object and try to start the car. i thought it was electrical and it was giving me problems prior to replacing it and hitting it helped get me through
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:14 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

i dont think it would be your main relay (as stated above) because your main relay is what feeds power to your fuel pump. If you can hear your fuel pump prime then its not your main relay. Also your main relay wont effect your car not cranking, your car will still crank you just wont be getting any gas into the cylinders.
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Old 05-04-2010, 04:01 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

I had a problem with the car not starting when I first purchase it anytime the interior would get hot. I believe it was the relay. Like dan said it's probably not the relay since you can hear your fuel pump priming for 2 seconds.

Since you seem to have fuel, the problem should be in the electrical circuit. (switch, wires, immobilizer unit etc) or the starter itself. You said that you had problems starting the car as if the battery had a low charge... if the starter, or wires to the starter were going bad you would have increased resistance (either mechanical or electrical) which would cause hard starting.

Do you have a DMM (Digital Multimeter)?

I would voltage drop the wire from the battery to the starter, make sure thats good, and that you have battery voltage (12.6v) at the starter terminal when the key is in the crank position. You should use a remote starter... it's safer. If you do have all these things the starter should turn over.

Take a look at this: Training Manual It has a description of how to use the multimeter correctly. Hope it helps. If you're still having problems figuring it out let us know.

Good luck and keep us updated.
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Old 05-04-2010, 06:48 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

SpoonerTuner.com - Free downloadable Honda Acura Factory Service Manuals by HELMS

download a 5th gen helms ^

Go straight to the trouble shooting.. it will give you reasons why your cart wont start.. comes down to three things.. eletricity, fuel, and air.. you have fuel and air.. so now the only thing to check is electricity.. you gotta find the section for your starter and it will show you how to test it and everything.. a Helms is a great thing to have.. it walks you through everything! Hopes this helps.
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:15 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

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Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
Hey thanks, I'll test that after my cisco exam tomorrow thanks

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Originally Posted by QueenBee View Post
this may be a stupid suggestion but it used to get me through before i had my starter replaced if your starter is the source of the problem. hit it with a hammer or blunt object and try to start the car. i thought it was electrical and it was giving me problems prior to replacing it and hitting it helped get me through
I have wrapped on the starter a couple times already doesn't seem to help

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Originally Posted by dannelson View Post
i dont think it would be your main relay (as stated above) because your main relay is what feeds power to your fuel pump. If you can hear your fuel pump prime then its not your main relay. Also your main relay wont effect your car not cranking, your car will still crank you just wont be getting any gas into the cylinders.
Well I wasn't sure as I did hear the fuel pump, and your right I guess it would crank but not start as the main relay does control the fuel pump, thanks for your info

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Originally Posted by preludesftw View Post
I had a problem with the car not starting when I first purchase it anytime the interior would get hot. I believe it was the relay. Like dan said it's probably not the relay since you can hear your fuel pump priming for 2 seconds.

Since you seem to have fuel, the problem should be in the electrical circuit. (switch, wires, immobilizer unit etc) or the starter itself. You said that you had problems starting the car as if the battery had a low charge... if the starter, or wires to the starter were going bad you would have increased resistance (either mechanical or electrical) which would cause hard starting.

Do you have a DMM (Digital Multimeter)?

I would voltage drop the wire from the battery to the starter, make sure thats good, and that you have battery voltage (12.6v) at the starter terminal when the key is in the crank position. You should use a remote starter... it's safer. If you do have all these things the starter should turn over.

Take a look at this: Training Manual It has a description of how to use the multimeter correctly. Hope it helps. If you're still having problems figuring it out let us know.

Good luck and keep us updated.
where exactly is the immobilizer unit? Yes I have a DMM, and I know how to use it too

Yeah I'll have a chance to finally work on it tomorrow after my appointment at VEC. I'll check those things and see where I am at. Thanks

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Originally Posted by dannelson View Post
SpoonerTuner.com - Free downloadable Honda Acura Factory Service Manuals by HELMS

download a 5th gen helms ^

Go straight to the trouble shooting.. it will give you reasons why your cart wont start.. comes down to three things.. electricity, fuel, and air.. you have fuel and air.. so now the only thing to check is electricity.. you gotta find the section for your starter and it will show you how to test it and everything.. a Helms is a great thing to have.. it walks you through everything! Hopes this helps.
Yeah its definitely electrical, I'll check out the manual.


Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the advice and help on this subject. I'll keep you posted
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:58 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

No problem glad to help!
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:21 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

Ta DAAA!!!

guess what it was?

ha ha ha it lasted 13 years and 160,000 miles the original starter was still in the car. The brushes were completely worn, thats why it would start sometimes and sometimes not. When it was between a decent contact it wouldnt start next start it would be closer and it would start. I didn't measure the current it was drawing but I bet it was high. Plus while I was in there I found the hose clamp to the throttle body was broken and stucking in air, so I bought a new coupler (w/ new hose clamps some spectre thingy) for the short ram air intake and a new filter. Ah this kitten is purring now. Thanks for all the help.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2010, 01:57 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

so glad you figured it out =)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
we're gonna pop your hood, stand back and stare at it for an extended amount of time while drinking beers, hypothesizing what the problem could be, and wishing and hoping it fixes itself

sound like a good plan!?!?!?
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Old 05-19-2010, 05:16 PM
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Re: Won't start need to find it fast

Glad you figured out your problem. I have the same thing too which is haunting me. Only problem is I have replaced the starter, and problem still happened. I looked into things a bit more and saw that others thought main relay, well I replaced it 2 days ago thinking my Lude was running perfect. And then yesterday as the day got warmer, I found myself 150 miles from home - and no start. Usually it is the same as you described, 5 minutes of playing with it and will fire, but not yesterday. I was left stranded for about an hour and I finally a couple guys came along and we tried to push start - nothing. Tried to jump the starter - it would turn over but not fire. There was never ever a problem not firing so there is some type of connection problem somewhere. Finally, I called the tow truck to pick me up for $450, and then right after I made the call - 4 hours after I initially could not start it - it fired. Needless to say I drove directly back to the city and dropped it at the Honda dealer where they are trouble shooting as I type. I had all the same symptoms as you describe - fuel pump priming and after trying to start the buzzing from the front of my engine compartment although I cannot yet pinpoint where this noise is coming from. I will update after I get word back from the dealer as I wouldn't wish this exasparating problem on anyone, although i am a bit apprehensive about it as they looked at me weird when I described the problem to them at Honda service desk.
-this 98 Lude has 168,000 km(105,000 miles)

Last edited by bhanson; 05-19-2010 at 05:29 PM.
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