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pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

 
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:24 PM
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pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

I've been told that mahle gold are probably one of the best pistons to go for they're like 11:5:1 I think it is? BUT im wondering if anyone knows much about JE pistons??? I'm looking around for any good deals for when I rebuild etc (Im staying n/a so don't bother saying go forced etc) and these JE pistons are 12.0:1 and a bit cheaper than the mahle pistons, so what would you people recommend and WHY?
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:34 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

First, are the JE compatible with the FRM like the mahle gold are? Or are you going to get sleeved?



From what I have heard, people have a 50/50 success rate with them for booted applications, I don't know about an n/a build as its alot less pressure in there.

I also know nothing about the JE pistons, so I'm not much help there.

Another option would be to get type-s pistons and get decked. That could get you the compression you are looking for.
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:51 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Uhh I'm not a big car tech but as far as I know JE pistons are forged so doesn't that destroy the FRM? I would sleeve if I go JE and I get some feedback on them being decent etc.

what exactly is decking? i'm guessing its to do with the head, and is it pricey? type s pistons are quite considerably cheaper so if it would be as effective and within the same kinda price range or possibly even a bit cheaper then maybe
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:33 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

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Old 04-24-2010, 04:13 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

unless you sleeve you cant run the other pistons. id just do what shatter box said.

and i wouldnt go above 11.5 on 91 octane
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:13 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

hmmmm but whats the cheaper option??? i'm not sure if octanes are rated different in our countries but by mine I run my car on 95
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:16 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

I found this could I just get different rings without needing to sleeve? if i went JE


The reason why im posting this is because i heard that you cant use forged pistons in the H22A block without resleaving the block.

Well ive did some research as to why this is so. The H22A use a extra tough Nikasil (nickel ceramic) lining in all the cylinders for better reliabilty (BMW, Porshe, Mercedes and other manufacturers have used this process for decades).

The problem when using aftermarket forged pistons in these blocks (including the European maunfacturers which have ran into the same problem) is the rings and not the pistons themselves (i think). Most uses a chrome plating on the rings (which causes excessive wear on the Nikasil which causes the cylinder to lose compression and other nasty things).

They are aftermarket forged piston manufacturers that use Nikasil friendly rings. Wiseco is one, but they do not stock pistons for the H22A (have to be fully custom).

Either that or use JE's and get the Nikasil friendly rings from them or another manufacturer or use the OEM rings (i dont know if that is possible).

Hope this helps anyone planning to boost an H22A. Anyone with more input to offer please do so as i am not completly sure about the piston thing because im not sure if the forged piston itself will actually wear out the Nikasil coating. Turbo Porche's have solved the same problem so I think that some of the things could apply to the H22A as well.

Although i hear about the piston coming in contact with cylinder wall, im not sure if this would be an issue with the forged piston in the Nikasil coated H22A. Im doing some more research and will do post it here as soon as I learn anything new.

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Old 04-24-2010, 10:48 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

The whole deal with the FRM cylinder walls is it expands and shrinks with cylinder heat. The OEM pistons are designed to flex with the cylinders. The Mahle pistons are designed the same way. Other companys like JE use a standard design forged piston that does not allow this process to work and will cause serious damage on top of alot of smoke when the engine warms up. That is the reason why you must resleeve the block with any other brand piston other than Mahle.
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:28 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

DONT USE THE JE PISTONS W/O RESLEEVING!! U will tear your cylinder walls up. I've heard bad things about mahle gold series pistons. Alot about the ceramic coating it comes with wears off after a while. If your not going 2 sleeve your block I would just go with type s pistons. Now if u decide to sleeve, je would be a very good choice
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:51 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I found this could I just get different rings without needing to sleeve? if i went JE


The reason why im posting this is because i heard that you cant use forged pistons in the H22A block without resleaving the block.

Well ive did some research as to why this is so. The H22A use a extra tough Nikasil (nickel ceramic) lining in all the cylinders for better reliabilty (BMW, Porshe, Mercedes and other manufacturers have used this process for decades).

The problem when using aftermarket forged pistons in these blocks (including the European maunfacturers which have ran into the same problem) is the rings and not the pistons themselves (i think). Most uses a chrome plating on the rings (which causes excessive wear on the Nikasil which causes the cylinder to lose compression and other nasty things).

They are aftermarket forged piston manufacturers that use Nikasil friendly rings. Wiseco is one, but they do not stock pistons for the H22A (have to be fully custom).

Either that or use JE's and get the Nikasil friendly rings from them or another manufacturer or use the OEM rings (i dont know if that is possible).

Hope this helps anyone planning to boost an H22A. Anyone with more input to offer please do so as i am not completly sure about the piston thing because im not sure if the forged piston itself will actually wear out the Nikasil coating. Turbo Porche's have solved the same problem so I think that some of the things could apply to the H22A as well.

Although i hear about the piston coming in contact with cylinder wall, im not sure if this would be an issue with the forged piston in the Nikasil coated H22A. Im doing some more research and will do post it here as soon as I learn anything new.
I applaud you for doing research, it seems not too many people are doing that now, however, like it has been said it is a BAD idea to use them without resleeving.

The cheapest way IMO is the type s pistons. they will give you 11.1 compression ratio ( correct me if im wrong ). Then you could either deck the block or mill the head slightly to get your desired 11.5. That would be the cheaper way. Sleeving + forged pistons are going to cost you alot more, and it is pointless to do all that if you are only running a mild N/A build
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:31 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Hmmm I guess type s would be the cheaper option(do I need different types of conrods for these?) I always thought maybe going forge incase one day I decide to go turbo but then that means getting rid of my ATTS even though I hear the lsd is meant to be good I still love my ATTS :( I guess i'll figure it out soon thanks alot for the help

just double checking with rebuild when doing the pistons I get the cylinders honed? also is there any point in boring the h22a?

with the decking how its removing material that comes in contact with the head? (hope I remembered that right) does this cause any decrease in reliability? just making sure to be safe :D

annnnnnnnnnd bit off topic but does anyone know if the weapon r secret cold air intake is any good for the h22a?

Last edited by Seph; 04-24-2010 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:26 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

If ur contemplating going turbo, decide now so u dont waste money. If u do wanna go turbo, start saving for it. Dont go slightly na for now, then sleeve the block and all that later on.

If u get ur cylinders honed make sure the person knows how to work with frm.

And I havent heard much about the weapon r intake. But if ur looking for a good intake, get u a type s intake with k&n drop in filter
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:06 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

P5P (Type S) pistons use P5M (stock 5th gen) rods. If you went with PDE (Accord Type R) pistons, then you would need matching PDE rods (no idea what the differences is). Aftermarket pistons I believe are all designed for the slightly larger 4th gen sized wrist pins (something like 0.866" vs. 0.864"), so you would also need new rods.

Whether you could get away without honing would depend on the cylinder conditions. At the very least they need to be inspected. As for boring; 0.25mm isn't going to do much, so only if there is some serious scarring that requires it.

As for decking. Means that there is less material to remove in the future (needs to be 100% level). Get the thing clayed to check for clearances and you should be fine. Also have to remember that the Type S had different angle valves and the reliefs on the pistons are designed as such. Running flat valves will also give you a small compression increase.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:58 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Eagle also makes an Hbeam rod that will work with the Type S pistons. another thing you have to be careful about is the different piston sizes, there are A and B sizes. read this, bc i dont feel like explaining

A or B pistons, where is it stamped? - Honda-Tech

Quote:
Originally Posted by shatterbox View Post
terrible idea for a non-race motor. you can achieve the same thing by taking the middle layer out of the headgasket. as stated above you are taking away material that cant be put back on. so if you do deck the block and mill the head and u blow a head gasket and warped ur block and head theres a good chance you wont have enough material left to fix this issue. so guess what? junk block and head, start over.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:59 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I found this could I just get different rings without needing to sleeve? if i went JE


The reason why im posting this is because i heard that you cant use forged pistons in the H22A block without resleaving the block.

Well ive did some research as to why this is so. The H22A use a extra tough Nikasil (nickel ceramic) lining in all the cylinders for better reliabilty (BMW, Porshe, Mercedes and other manufacturers have used this process for decades).

The problem when using aftermarket forged pistons in these blocks (including the European maunfacturers which have ran into the same problem) is the rings and not the pistons themselves (i think). Most uses a chrome plating on the rings (which causes excessive wear on the Nikasil which causes the cylinder to lose compression and other nasty things).

They are aftermarket forged piston manufacturers that use Nikasil friendly rings. Wiseco is one, but they do not stock pistons for the H22A (have to be fully custom).

Either that or use JE's and get the Nikasil friendly rings from them or another manufacturer or use the OEM rings (i dont know if that is possible).

Hope this helps anyone planning to boost an H22A. Anyone with more input to offer please do so as i am not completly sure about the piston thing because im not sure if the forged piston itself will actually wear out the Nikasil coating. Turbo Porche's have solved the same problem so I think that some of the things could apply to the H22A as well.

Although i hear about the piston coming in contact with cylinder wall, im not sure if this would be an issue with the forged piston in the Nikasil coated H22A. Im doing some more research and will do post it here as soon as I learn anything new.
H22s are not Nikasil coated. Mahle pistons are Nikasil coated, which enables to them work in a frm sleeve.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:15 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Okay so I have BBBB as my piston sizes, so would these type s pistons work?

JDM Prelude BB6 Type S Piston 220HP BB6 H22A S Spec Standard Size

Or would I have to bore it out and go over this

JDM Prelude BB6 Type S Piston Set 220HP BB6 H22 S Spec .25mm OS

And how much of a bore would that be over my B cylinder walls?
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:39 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

B are 13020-P5P-J00. First link would be A (13010-P5P-J00) which are slightly larger than B so should fit. Whether you go OS (13030-P5P-J00) depends on the condition of your cylinder walls. If you want B's you can just order them from Japan. Pistons are about „5300 each although I bought a set from Yahoo Japan cheap awhile back so you never know.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:45 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Thanks a lot, well I am going to need a hone so would the 13010-P5P-J00 be more likely to fit then? or I found this site JDM Honda P5P Type S Piston Sets B Standard Size but you were talking about ordering them from japan, how exactly would I do that? And I definitely want to stay away from boring out if it can.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:26 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Need to use a company over there like rhdjapan or greenline. Generally they can supply any JDM Honda part.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:49 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

if you want type s pistons get them from h motors online

they use the same rings as stock pistons.

not sure if the oversize pistons are listed on their site..id call them
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:04 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Thanks a lot man, just emailed both of them to see if I can get my pistons, I am so happy to hopefully get this build done soon lol
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:10 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

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Originally Posted by UntoTheCruel View Post
if you want type s pistons get them from h motors online

they use the same rings as stock pistons.

not sure if the oversize pistons are listed on their site..id call them
Thanks man, all type s pistons are suppose to use the same rings as usdm pistons, but they have a pretty good price ill see what rhdjapan and greenline's prices are then make a decision. I really do not want over sized pistons that was just if it was hard to find B sized pistons which doesn't seem too hard to find now.
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:42 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

i have JE 11:5:1 customs and i paid around $800.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:46 AM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

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i have JE 11:5:1 customs and i paid around $800.
I think you mean 11.5:1 and ouch, I just got my type s pistons 11:1 CR and paid $245 for them and thats with the shipping also.
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:30 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Do you NEED to get Type S or after market cams if you get the Type S pistons? Also, what after market connecting rods are compatible with the Type S pistons? He might as well get forged ones, since it'll free up HP right?

(I'm thinking about getting Type S pistons in the future but I want better mileage as well, so I figure that the more advanced cams would hurt that effort.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:54 PM
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Re: pistons???? JE OR MAHLE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mckillio View Post
Do you NEED to get Type S or after market cams if you get the Type S pistons? Also, what after market connecting rods are compatible with the Type S pistons? He might as well get forged ones, since it'll free up HP right?

(I'm thinking about getting Type S pistons in the future but I want better mileage as well, so I figure that the more advanced cams would hurt that effort.
Haha you can technically run any cam with any set of pistons, although aftermarket cams live high CR pistons :P so yes you can keep your cams and get the type s pistons.

If you have a 5th gen h22 then your rods will work perfectly with the type s pistons. If you don't have a 5th gen h22 then I hear some machine shops can modify your rods to work with the type s pistons or you can go forged, and since forged rods weigh less, it will free up a little power, nothing really noticeable as far as I know but you car should rev a little easier, its kinda like a lightweight flywheel (but not quite as noticeably because its less weight) because there is less weight that the crank has to throw around plus forged rods are stronger plus the type s pistons also weigh less than your current pistons.
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