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Auto Tranny issue - help!

 
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:35 PM
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Auto to Manual conversion - advice needed.

I was reading through the Sticky about Auto Tranny Failure Guide but my gearbox is exhibiting some of the signs and I was wondering if anyone knew if I had a big expensive job on my hands or a relatively simple thing like a clutch or oil change...

It started a few months ago (yeah I should have had it looked at then), when my car would try to lurch forward after it came to a stop. It didnt do it all the time and mainly when it had warmed up.
I tend to use sports-shift mode 99% of the time.

So I would brake to a stop and then a second or so later the car would seemingly lurch forward (without going anywhere). There was no revs movemet that I noticed. It was more of an annoyance than anything.

Now today, things just got worse.
I was waiting at a give-way and had a gap to go... put my foot down and I got nothing. It was like neutral. So I lifted off and planted my foot down and the car waited a second or so and caught the gear and off it went with all the force the car could muster.
So that caught my attention. Then I tried some things. The upshifts seemed normal. I would upshift and the car would upshift about a second later (normal). On the downshift, its a different matter. Usually they are instant. But now there is a delay there too of up to 2 seconds.
So Im in 3rd for example. I downshift and my display says "2". Then 2-3s later, the revs jump up as the gear engages and its a little jumpy.
There is no whine or clicking or any such noises coming from the box that I can make out.

I decide to bring the car home (Im 3 mins away). Where I live I have to go up a steep-ish ramp to park the car.
So, I stuck the car in full auto and let it go up. It just shuddered as if it couldnt make its mind up what gear to be in.

I stopped the car, went back to "1" in sports shift mode and accelerated.
I just got revs for a second or so then the car lurches forward and off it goes.


So does it sound like I'm in deep or can this be something that isnt going to cost me a kidney ?

2001 5th Gen with 49700 kms (35000miles?) on it.
Its been serviced by the Honda dealers here but I cannot confirm if the gearbox oil has been changed or even looked at.

Last edited by F1Racer; 08-16-2009 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 11:18 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

dude auto transmissions in preludes fail...
ive read this time and time again...
honestly...
its time for you to source out a manual trans and everything to make the swap...
and swap her yourself..

your not under warranty whatsoever by honda?

those miles are sooooooo low.
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:42 AM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

How long is the warranty on a 2001 Prelude ?

A tranny swap is easier said than done. Where I live, the parts are not readily available and any 2nd hand parts would have to be shipped in from abroad.
Plus there is no way I am capable of doing the swap myself.
Then its not just the engine, but the pedal changeover, the ecu, the dials etc..

I was really wondering if the symptoms Im getting are something minor or major.
Or is it the case that any work on the gearbox is not worth it and it would just be replaced anyway ?
That being the case, I would probably try to source an auto replacement because Im not loaded.
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Old 08-04-2009, 12:09 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

As a owner of an AUTO lude I can pretty much say you'll need to either check the fluids (transmission fluid) see if the level is ok , do u feel a jerk when you park your car or putting it in reverse, ummm....hear a loud crank sound.. CEL pops up saying your gears outta place, cause it sounds to me like you'll need to buy a new transmission before it gets any worse where your stuck with no transportation .....I been thru this 3x alrdy with my auto..... I wouldnt suggest you keep using the Sport Shift either cause that where the problems start always since our car was used to test the SS out ....... BUT there a way tho if you can find a mechanic who just can replace the burnt parts or c if anything is wrong except to pay between 1500-2000 for a new transmission tho
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:00 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Thanks Coldhearedvet.

I will check the fluid level tomorrow (Im not using the car meantime obviously) :)
No known probs in reverse, no loud crank sound.
I don't know about CEL codes so I couldnt tell you about that.

Thats not good news about Sports Shift. I have always preferred that because at least it offers some mechanical braking. Is sports-shift more fuel efficient ? Bearing in mind I live in a hilly place.
Either way my fuel economy is crap despite a fuel filter change.
I don't drive it easy but Im not a lunatic either and I can fill up the tank of my car (2.2VTi) and after 265kms (165miles). Is that seriously normal ? I drive in small city with many stops and starts. Imagine Monaco without the glamour :)
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:17 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Racer View Post
Thanks Coldhearedvet.

I will check the fluid level tomorrow (Im not using the car meantime obviously) :)
No known probs in reverse, no loud crank sound.
I don't know about CEL codes so I couldnt tell you about that.

Thats not good news about Sports Shift. I have always preferred that because at least it offers some mechanical braking. Is sports-shift more fuel efficient ? Bearing in mind I live in a hilly place.
Either way my fuel economy is crap despite a fuel filter change.
I don't drive it easy but Im not a lunatic either and I can fill up the tank of my car (2.2VTi) and after 265kms (165miles). Is that seriously normal ? I drive in small city with many stops and starts. Imagine Monaco without the glamour :)

Dude SS is your problem, not to mention the fact that its an auto...

As far as gas mileage goes, 165mi to the tank blows! I put roughly 275-300 before I feel like filling up, and still only put about 10 gallons in. maybe 11. What grade gas do you use? that could have something to do with it...other than that I don't know without knowing anything else about the car...

Anyways, I say find a mechanic that'd be willing to do a m/t swap for you, all your issues will be solved....
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:55 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Man, I wish I`d known SS was so fragile and prone to screwing up.

Manual trans swap, as I said, is going to be a monumental task. Its not like being in the USA and having any part you want to hand with a mechanic on every block.

I'm limited here to the people with sufficient knowledge to do such as swap unless my Honda dealer is willing (and I`ll bet they havent done one before).

IF a situation does arise where a gearbox change is necessary AND a manual swap wont cost that much more, Im hoping there are people here who have done this and can tell me the parts I need and tips and advice on the changeover.
Just thinking about it all (gearbox, clutch, pedals, ecu etc.) freaks me out.
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:00 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Racer View Post
IF a situation does arise where a gearbox change is necessary AND a manual swap wont cost that much more, Im hoping there are people here who have done this and can tell me the parts I need and tips and advice on the changeover.
Just thinking about it all (gearbox, clutch, pedals, ecu etc.) freaks me out.
Its been done before, run a quick search...I remember seeing a thread not too long ago that had the full parts list...

Whatever the case is good luck bro, Hate to see a lude out of action!
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:47 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

In my opinion I wouldnt use the SS at all it just causes the SS to breakdown easier and the transmission to go out faster ..... and if you were to compare the D4 to SS they both are kinda roughly the same to me cept that SS shifts by itself after certain rpm and it doesnt let u redline if u do drive like a lunatic ..... But i prefer driving in D4 you can control ur rpm stay in gear(D4) and it doesnt put much of a strain on the gears when your driving regular speed compare to SS which KINDA gives you the urge to go from 2-3 4-3 maybe even to 2-1

That or you can invest your money like Lazer says and go for manual and just find the parts then take them to a mechanic to start ur progress from there cause A) gain horsepower...B) manual duh ... C) it's a 5 speed...etc

you get the hint
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:28 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

i aint gonna mess with SS in my auto =p
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:50 AM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Thanks for the comments guys.

I wish I knew about the fagility of SS when I bought the car. I was dead set against auto before I bought it but at the price I got it for I couldnt resist.
My car is booked into the Honda dealer on Wednesday. I will get them to at least tell me what is exactly wrong and what it would cost THEM to fix it.
If they tell me its a transmission swap, then depending on cost, I will look into sourcing parts for a manual. I hope the transmission of a UK car will fit on a Euro model.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:56 AM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

good luck bro, keep us updated.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:49 AM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

OK here's the update....

As I predicted, and as we know garages like you to pay as much as possible, they called my up 3 hours after taking the car it.
They told me they test drove it and put it on the diagnostics and basically the car told them that the tranny was no good any more.

So... they gave me the estimate for the repair.. bear in mind this is a 2001 Prelude 4WS 2.2i with 49,700kms on the clock only. But it is still 8 years old.

In fact, here it is with its owner...

http://racingrenders.com/Prelude/F1Racerprel-12.jpg

and here is the estimate.....

http://racingrenders.com/Prelude/estimate.jpg

Now which words would you use to tell them 'no thanks' ? :)

Anyway... in light of this ridiculousness, I have decided to go for the swap to 5-speed manual.
Im trying to source as much info as I can now on parts needed and the guide on how to do it. Ive seen a couple but one of them says I need a Helm manual but Im not in the USA or Canada so I can't order one.

Thankfully though I know a mechanic who has already agreed to do it and he knows Honda's inside out, upside down and any which way but loose.
In fact I`ll wager he`s better than any of the mechanics at the Honda dealership. So thats a plus-point.
Plus he told me today he already tranny-swapped a Porsche 911. :)

I just now need to source all the parts, likely from the UK and get them over here so we can make a start.
Im guessing I should just source the major bits like tranny, clutch etc.. from UK and the smaller bits like slave cylinders, pedals, gear stick, ecu from the deal here. Is that a plan ?

Any advice for you guys who I know are a wealth of info would be appreciated here.

One question I do have... is the manual gearbox from a 2.0 Prelude the same as the 2.2 ? If so, that gives me much more scope while searching.

Also Im told I have to watch out for alignment of the engine mountings ?
My mechanic mentioned this. I gather there is one on the manual tranny itself.
Are there any parts that need bolting onto the car too with this swap ?

Thanks for any help as this is all new to me.

I will keep you posted on progress all up to the finished car.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, in D4 and D3 the car is a nightmare. Revs up from standstill then brutally hits into gear and takes off. Gear ratior 2 seems totally fine :) Maybe I can trundle around this small place on that until I get my manual transmission parts. If I wreck the box now, what have I got to lose, right ?

Last edited by F1Racer; 08-12-2009 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:25 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

A few minutes on google brought me this:
http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...d.php?t=280367

Looks to be excellent, though I didn't read it all the way. That about as much as I can provide. You may want to shoot Beaker a pm, I know he was planning on doing the swap and I think he may ave collected all the parts. He may be able to give you some info. Good luck!

Oh hey here is the helms manual btw: http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2...9QKN1WWQEQ55D9
Not sure if you can get it shipped to you or not...
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Last edited by Lazer; 08-12-2009 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:46 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Thanks a lot Lazer.
Will throughly go through that article now.

Yeah the Helms wont ship outside US according to their website. :(
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:26 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Was reading through the article and all the off-shoots of it. Man, thats a wealth of stuff.

I see that you can kinda hack the auto ECU to a manual ECU with the help of a soldering iron.
But I also read that if you get a propoer manual ECU that you can take it to Honda to reprogram it for your immobiliser. Would I NEED the red key for this because I don't have it.
It also said, something about a locksmith doing the it or something ? A locksmith ? Really ?? I dont think Im gonna find a locksmith around here who can do that - most of them have a bunch of keys, a hammer, a bent coathanger and a smile.

I can only be thankful that the guy who is gonna do this swap for me is knowledgable with Honda's. I`ll make sure I give him all the articles and we can go through the parts list etc..
I can see Im going to be a pedestrian for quite a while. :(
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:12 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

if i remember correctly, the honda warranty on that tranny should be like 80k miles. fully covered.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:53 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

thats mucho money im in germany and can help with the swap.. if your located around me I can lend a hand.. Ive done plenty of swap's on vw's and a few camaro's.. its not that bad i got about 71 thousand miles on mine and I cant wait for a 5spd swap
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:58 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

@CavScoutRyno: Just got an email from Honda who told me that the warranty was 60,000kms or 3 yrs whichever came first. It's the 'whichever comes first' part thats the clincher. As my car is now 8 yrs, despite the low mileage, its not covered :(

@cheeseman411: Hi m8. Hey many thanks for your offer, thats very kind. Im actually in Gibraltar so you're quite a way from me. At the moment I have a v.good mechanic who is going to do it for me and he knows Honda's better than the dealership do :)
I might stick you in as a Plan B though and you can get a small paid holiday from it, heh.




BTW anyone know whats the rough going rate on a 2nd hand manual ECU ?
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:46 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

you can use the auto ecu you just have to take out a resistor.. correct if i am wron please.. all auto mounts will still work too.. just get the pedal tranny,cylinder's and have a shop fab a tube and you should be in buisness.. heck your auto center console can be used too just need to remove the auto stick and you will be good to go. when I get home I will send you all of my info that I have collected for my swap! cheers
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:07 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Yeah I read about that resister thing on the auto ECU so I guess that is an option.

Which tube are you referring to that needs fabricating ? Isnt this a part I can source?

The manual box needs a side mount too doesn't it ? One that the auto box doesnt have.

I have sourced a bit of stuff with help from a few kind people on this and other Prelude forums. But any info you have that you can send me would be appreciated.
You can mail to me at f1racer@gibtelecom.net

Thanks m8.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:59 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

my auto trans had the same sort of prob... i would start the car it would go a few feet then stop driving and act like it was in neutral instead.. so i flushed the fluid and put new fluid in about 4 times ... hasnt done it since try changing the filter
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:27 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

ok small update and some advice needed.

I am able, it seems, to get the following parts from a used car parts warehouse in UK.
Quote from email:-

5 Speed Transmission 350
*Clutch Slave Cylinder 40
*Clutch Dampener 40
*Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) 20
*Reverse Switch 20
*Hydraulic Lines 20
*5spd Starter 70

Transmission side mounting 50
Clutch Master Cylinder 40
Clutch Pedal Assembly 45
Brake Pedal Assembly 40
Shifter Assembly and Shift linkage 150
5spd Intermediate shaft (half-shaft) 100

all above for 950 + vat

You may also need the dash clock and dash loom/ gearbox selector.


This part list does not include the 3 clutch parts or flywheel as I will get those seperate.

Obviously getting all the parts from the same place saves on postage, time and cost.
So, I understand them saying I also need the dash cluster (but thats optional), but what to do they mean with gearbox selector ?? On a manual car ?

Anyway I have some further questions I was hoping someone could help me on or give me some advice...

1) Is the half-shaft actually necessary ? I have read elsewhere that you can still use the one from the auto box. I can save 100 if I dont need it.

2) Am I missing anything from that parts list ? Cable, brackets, etc ?

3) I notice some gearboxes have LSD and some don't. Am I supposed to have one on the 2.2VTi ? I guess I need to find out the gearbox type from these people before they send it.

4) Also my plan is, as I have the gearbox off anyway, to fit in a lightweight flywheel and performance clutch.
Question I have is, is it worth to do this or just stick with stock parts ?

5) Cruise control. Does that get disabled or can it still be use with the manual gearbox ? Do only auto cars have cruise ? Doesn't matter to me either way, just was curious.

6) The ECU. I have instructions here on how to modify the auto ECU to 'convert' it to a manual ECU with the help of a soldering iron.
Worth to try that out first (save all the hassle with the immobiliser reprogramming) then get the manual ECU if that fails ?

If anyone has any advice, tips or let me know if I'm missing anything at this stage, I would be most grateful.

Helms:
One write-up I read insisted that I get a Helms manual, but it seems Helms have quite a few on the Prelude so I wasn't certain which one I needed exactly. The owners manual says its a replacement for the glove-box one you get with the car so doesn't that just say 'Thanks for buying a Honda and here's how to fill up the wiper washer fluid' kind of thing ?
If you think my mechanic will definately need a Helms, I`ll need to know which one and then I can email them and see if I can get them to ship outside of the US/Canada (which they don't right now).

Last edited by F1Racer; 08-16-2009 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:08 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

hey man,
I am going to email you all my info and I also the bb6 service manual's and tear down/put back together procedures look for an email from cheesy4111
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:23 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

the file is about 650 megs big. is there another way I could send it or a way to compress the file? so you can recive it
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:57 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Hi cheeseman411,

If you send me an email to f1racer@gibtelecom.net, I`ll send you back ftp details where you can upload it to my pc.

Many thanks.

P.S. My car is BB8, should still be roughly the same though right ?

Thanks a lot m8
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:33 AM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

uploading :P
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:47 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Wanting now to add an Exedy OEM clutch (which Im lead to believe is Stage 1) and a lightweight Fidanza flywheel. The flywheel comes in at 3.6kg (8 lbs).

Would this be ok for daily driving ?
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:37 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Well it's been a while but some progress has been made. Most of the mechanical work is done.

The auto box is out and is consigned to history now. Jeez thats a heavy piece of junk. The manual box is so much lighter.

Fidanza flywheel is on, standard Aisin clutch also.

Here are some pics, then I`ll fill you in on where we are right now....


































ok so when the auto box was removed it was noticed that the front engine mounting was screwed so a new one was needed.

Also the people who shipped me the gearbox and all the bits, left out the bracket that attaches the gearbox right side of the car body.
They say they DHL'd it out last week but Im still ****ing waiting !

Also ordered new clutch pipes, a new hydraulic clutch hose and a new clutch slave cylinder as the one on the manual box wasn't in good condition.
Those parts along with the new front engine mounting has arrived and just waiting to pick up those parts from the Honda garage, possibly tomorrow.

Oh and bought new pedal rubbers as the pedals came without.



So a couple of questions for the experts here...

1) My car is LHD but the donor car was from UK so the clutch pedal and brake pedal are from a RHD car. Is this going to be a problem ?

2) I do have the manual ECU from the donor car but I'm going to go with converting the auto ECU instead. Reason is I don't have my red key and so having the keys redone from by black ones might prove pricey.
Once the ECU is done I think there is something I read that once you do the conversion, unless you sort it with some re-wiring, the car will not start.
What was that ?

3) If I decide later to go for a dashboard cluster from a manual car, is it easy to adjust the mileage on it to match what the car actually has ?

4) After being off the road for over 3 months now, is it compulsory that when I get the car back, I have to make up for lost time by driving it till my feet go numb ?
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:48 PM
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Re: Auto Tranny issue - help!

Glad that your getting this done, good to see!

1) I honestly don't know but my first assumption would be no, it doesn't matter. But again, I really don't know so don't quote me on that.
2) I have no idea, sorry...
3)I've heard its damn near impossible. Just have decent documentation of the milage on the chassis, engine and tranny from the time of the swap and calculate it whenever it is needed for whatever reason...

4) HELL YES. lol.
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